[dataway]

Working on a print now with about twice the resolution, about as fine a resolution as my printer will do. 0.2mm or about .008".

First impressions are very good.

Yes, 1/10th scale. Bare block is about 1.96" from front to back.

I wanted to do it in parts much like a model for both fun to assemble (or add a blower or something later) and the fact that I can do the parts more justice printing them in an orientation favorable to one part, that might not be favorable to the part it's attached to.
Like the block gets printed as it would sit in the car, the heads get printed standing on end, the valve covers get printed lying flat bottom down. All depends on what features are on a part which direction they will print best in.


Hard to see here ... camera seems to have some problems focusing on this shiny filament. But, quite an improvement ... higher resolution print is on the bottom.

What I find exciting is it's like have a plastic model you can't screw up, you can reprint any part you want, create new parts, or print all the parts again and build another with different options, colors etc.

[Shiny]

Can definitely see the impact of the print quality improvement.

Thanks for sharing your work, it's fascinating!

I searched online for a source for 3D models of Pontiacs and this site popped up. Not useful to your current CAD effort, but seems the world of digital car replicas is exploding and there must be a market for "content creators". I have no idea how accurate nor detailed these models are but they look cool and sell for real money:

https://www.turbosquid.com/Search/3D-Models/Pontiac

[Shiny]

Here's another site with lower-quality, maybe "hobby-level" models. This appears to be a "shared" library ???

https://www.3dcadbrowser.com/3d-models/pontiac

[dataway]

I'm a member at TurboSquid.
Most of those models are used for rendering visuals, and are often not suitable for 3d printing. 3d printing usually requires the model to be designed with the intent to print them. Both the CAD file formats used and the type of data in the file matter when it comes to use as a visual render, or a "solid model" that can be printed.

I also work with 3ds Max which is one of the primary tools used to create those models. Tools like 3ds Max are used to create models which would be used for instance in an animated movie, it includes the data necessary to re-create them in a virtual (computer) environment, it does not contain the data on how they were created, the dimensions, or the drawings that were used to create them.

CAD programs on the other hand create a virtual model that represents a real life solid object, with data on how it was created ( like a drawing showing a 1" hole was "drilled" in a dimensioned location in a 4" block). You can go into the CAD file, and change that hole to 1.5" for instance, you can change the location of that hole etc.

Best way to describe it might be ... a model meant for rendering an IMAGE contains the data to render a 2d image from any angle. A CAD model contains the data to create a physical sculpture that can be created in real life.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Why contain the data to create a real solid object when you just need to render images. And why contain the data to create realistic images (colors, textures, paint, hair, rubber etc.) when you just need the data to replicate a solid shape in real life.

It gets weird Technology has progressed to the point you can represent every detail of a real life object from dimensions, material used, color, hardness, glossiness, friction coefficient, mass, etc. in a "virtual" model .... it exists in every way .... except it doesn't exist

[Shiny]

All makes sense, was just curious if you could extract dimensions off one of these 3D models.

For example, the orange 70 GTO on TurboSquid seems to be a fairly accurate rendition of the body. Building body parts, seats, etc. with your CAD tools won't be easy. If you could somehow import those images into CAD and extrude them to give some thickness, I expect it would be a HUGE time-saver.

In a previous life, one of the Mechanical design engineers I worked with hired a CAD specialist to build an animated model of a complex mechanism. It was able to show all the part interactions (think gears, levers, slides, pulleys, etc.) by combining the individual part models and simulating the operation (like a CAD video). He was able to run tolerance sensitivities, identify interference risks, and in general, explain some of the hiccups that were causing functional failures in tests. Very powerful tool but ate up a LOT of computer resources. This was about 8 years ago, so my guess is the state of the art CAD tools are beyond impressive.

Those TurboSquid models have a lot of detail and while not photographic-looking, it might be fun to put on my AR goggles and see what that 69 TA looks like in my garage. But not worth $99 to me for that experience. Who pays for these models? What is the market? Advertising? Games?

Mike

[dataway]

I'd say the market would mostly something in the gaming community or movie industry. The people they have in Hollywood can do amazing things with models like that, put in a background and textured right you wouldn't know they weren't real parked on a road.

As for using part of those models a whole lot depends on the file type ... that 70 GTO for instance offers standard CAD solid model files, I could probably use those. I'm not sure how "deep" they go ... for instance is the entire seat modeled ... or just what can be seen? The files would be scalable to whatever size I need and could be modified to some extent. It does appear it may be a single file, if so, depending on type, it could be very difficult to extract just the parts I need. My main concern is the body shell, valance, bumpers etc. I don't have a lot of experience with shapes like that.

I notice that 70 GTO model is a GM licensed product, that's why it looks so good, they probably paid a very good artist to do it, and provided him with lots of factory drawings to base it on.

Some of the work on there is just outstanding.

Here are some photos of the lastest print, this is about the max detail I can achieve. I can make some incremental improvements in print quality, but details smaller than these are just not going to print well. Like any plastic model, it would require some attention by the builder, and some finishing to bring out the best.

[Shiny]

Wow, those look fantastic!

They are WAY more realistic than any plastic model I've seen and you've done a great job managing the "assembly".

The material for the valve covers looks closer to metal than I would have expected.

Surface finishes are also better than I expected. You either have a nice printer or have learned how to set it up well - probably both!

What's the next part?

[dataway]

Thank you!
Well, one reason it looks better is the higher resolution and slower print times I'm using .. just the block took 5 hours to print.

I can go a bit farther with resolution .. print time would probably increase to around 7 hours. On the lower resolution settings it would print closer to one hour .. so quality has a time penalty. However ... in theory, you only need to print a part once at high quality once you get the CAD work done to your satisfaction. A lot of the pictures I post are at a lower resolution because A. I'm not very patient B. Just want to get some images up to show the changes and just need a part to test fit.

Next I think I'm going to try the oil pan, should be simple, then the intake which won't be so simple.

Except for a few minor changes ... text on heads, size of the oil filler opening on the valve covers, adding some bolt heads here and there, adding the fuel pump mounting pad .... the CAD parts seen below are mostly done.

[dataway]

So here's a print of the updated heads and kind of the process I go through. After I print them I look at them very close for mistakes (like wrong font), things that need to be enhanced (like the head bolts) and printing errors (like the anomalous line through the exhaust port, and printing problems around the exhaust port flange).

Some are solved by falsely enhancing a part, like the bolt heads, or just changing the font for the head casting number in the CAD file. Some print problems like the exhaust flange are caused by too steep an angle for the printer to print (they can't print into air .. like an overhanding brick wall, they need some level of support). The anomalous line is caused by a teeny tiny misalignment in the solid faces, that will be fixed in the CAD file.

I'm probably going to try to print the head at a different angle that will be a compromise between the areas that print very well, and the parts that print poorly.

[dataway]

Basic Oil pan is done, still some tweaking to do to it.

And yes I'm going to post pics of every single update

In five years this thread will be 10,000 posts

My desk is started to look like a teeny tiny Pontiac engine shop.

[Shiny]

I enjoy seeing your work. I have no idea how you get all that done so fast but the results are fun to see.

The oil pan looks great!

Mike

[dataway]

Made some improvements in the pan and added a drain plug.

Still catching up on printing the other parts out in high resolution. I've got to be careful here, I could get really addicted to this and never leave my "laboratory"

I'm still in the process of preparing to move to TN ... which I'm thinking should probably take precedence over this project.

I got up at 7am, figured I'd make a few tweaks ... it's 11am now

[Shiny]

We are also moving again in a few months so I get it. I'm looking at PY instead of finding contractors.

I can think of a few diversions from moving stress that are more self-destructive than designing and printing miniature Pontiacs.

Details like the head bolts may eat time but they add a lot and you are probably building libraries of 1/10 fasteners.

[LastoftheThinkers]

Originally Posted by dataway

Made some improvements in the pan and added a drain plug.

Still catching up on printing the other parts out in high resolution. I've got to be careful here, I could get really addicted to this and never leave my "laboratory"

I'm still in the process of preparing to move to TN ... which I'm thinking should probably take precedence over this project.

I got up at 7am, figured I'd make a few tweaks ... it's 11am now

Where in TN? I used to live in Knoxville. It is looking very nice. I am excited to see what the finished project looks like.

[dataway]

We bought a place in Weakley Co., town of Greenfield TN.
House is kind of wreck, the 30 acres it sits on are very nice.

Shiny, you just reminded me, I need to be looking for someone to put up my shop building this summer.

[dataway]

Here's what it looks like while working on a new part ... first I trace and scale gaskets to get dimensions correct. Then try to place those in the right position on the engine, then try to start connecting them together with the solid shapes and features that make up the actual part.
The process can be pretty tedious

[dataway]

Here are the engine parts at present. These all appear ready to go for the final model.

If a couple of years from now anyone here is into 3d printing, these would be the parts you print from the giant collection of STL files that will comprise the 68 GTO model.

One thing cool about the model files, you can easily scale them up and down to print the model any size you want, well any practical size, so like from 1/24th to maybe three feet long for the whole car.

[Shiny]

That is wonderful to see! Nicely done in such a short time.

I'm starting to feel like a CAD groupy, but I'm comfortable with that.

I like the 1/24 option, as I do build models occasionally and these parts would out-do anything in a commercial kit. I could even get them printed at the local library. There is no question you could create a following among modelers with this engine.

The details are impressive. The 2 different valve cover openings are perfect and the fasteners add a LOT.

I also appreciate the "alignment tabs" for assembly.

Mike

[dataway]

Here are some photos of the assembled engine so far.

The alignment tabs are helpful since I'm using CA (Superglue) to assemble and there isn't much time for readjusting.

Would be interesting to scale a part down to 1/24 and see how it prints, of course some detail would be lost. I'll probably continue to tweak the engine model as I'd like to be able to print just the engine at something like 1/6 scale as kind of a desktop piece.

I figure the engine, frame, suspension, diff etc. would be good for any 68-72 A body model, 69 GTO would just be a few body panel modifications, 70-72 would be possible too down the road.

Looking forward to creating the fan, alternator, distributor, exhaust manifolds etc. They are way smaller so the prototyping goes faster.

I still need to do work on the printing side, would like the details to print a bit better. Requires lots of testing of different temps, speeds, resolution etc.

[4zpeed]

Haven't built a model in decades, reeheallly start'in-ta itch, wonder if I still got the touch...

..............


Frank