[Sirrotica]

Jake's, is probably near the top of the heap for T 400 quality, and reliability. With current price increase (he lists it as 20% across the board as of Dec. 1 2021), his stage 2 (750 HP/TQ) rating, is $2150. No convertor, or core, shipping is extra.

The stage 1 is (450 HP/TQ) rating, essentially a stock rebuild, he doesn't have pricing on that option on his website.

He does convertors in house, each is custom tailored to you combination. T 400 pricing is $650-$1000.

[roy381]

Just got mine back from builder just before Christmas . Stage 2 build with torque converter was $2050. Got a little break because I know the guy from coaching his kid in football for years. I'm here in New Jersey

[67Fbird]

$2500 WITH a REAL converter is ..meh OK. (not talking a TCI saturday night special converter here....more like a COAN) $1500 for a tranny only is in line with the world and SHOULD be able to handle well over 500 ft/lb . Basically it's only about $800 for a stock build so add in HD sprag, new pump assembly and some VB parts and your in the $1300 area. Add a couple 100 extra for labor making sure new HD stuff fits and VB work.... yeah $1500. The converter is where you will spend good money shopping around as it alone can make or break how the car FEELS. $500+ is not un-heard of for a very precision piece.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by ta man

My trans builder told me to not use type F anymore. He says it can cause hot spots on the clutch discs.
A good transmission builder will show you any damage in a trans also show you or detail the mods made. I just had a th 350 rebuilt for my car and he didn't blink an eye when I told him how much power my car makes and how much it weighs. All he said was "Them Pontiacs make torque..what gear"? 308's for years..into the 10's ..I told him 373's now ..he said your trans will say thank you for years. .He went over his mods and parts with me..explained the benefits on the new part- synthetic trans fluid that doesn't break down..told me to bring the trans back in 2 years even if it feels good to check out..Meanwhile smoking a big fat cigar all the time..
These guys are worth the extra cash just for their experience and time..35 years experience plus he is a drag racer..its worth extra just for his time and his hands on the trans.

But for the do it self guys..go for it..it is just a learning curve , especially with a tough th400 and not a baby th350 like mine.

Thanks for posting the info. I'll have to do some more reading. I did the th400 rebuid myself that is in the car right now and so far so good. I have seen the hot spots on the clutches. So I'm wondering on brand specific synthetic oil that your builder recommends? I'm thinking GM dexron 6.

Thanks again.

[grivera]

Jim Hostler in Delaware built a stout one for a friend a couple years ago for $900 including core. He is top notch. The engine made at around 550/550 on dyno. I assume his prices have gone up some but can't imagine they doubled.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

Thanks for posting the info. I'll have to do some more reading. I did the th400 rebuid myself that is in the car right now and so far so good. I have seen the hot spots on the clutches. So I'm wondering on brand specific synthetic oil that your builder recommends? I'm thinking GM dexron 6.

Thanks again.

synthetic ATF is available from many brands that are compatible with dex3 & 6 for TH transmissions & many others... most are considered more of a universal ATF. the best priced one that is a high quality 100% synthetic fluid is valvoline maxlife, i use it in my TCI th400 with excellent results as well as my toyota 4runner with a 5 speed, its rated for toyota WS fluid & many many other types.

other popular options like amsoil, mobil1 & higher end brands will work good too. even the supertech synthetic or conventional ATF is good stuff. another option is B&M trick shift & TCI ATF, ive heard the B&M is a mix of type F & dex3 ??

[Sirrotica]

This statement came from a speedshop owner, Valvoline dealer, that also was a dealer for B&M.

"The Trick Shift is just Type F ATF packaged by a refiner for B&M."

That was in the early 70s, it could have changed since then.....

I always used type F in all my Pontiac hot rods. I never had any complaints, or problems using it. The viscosity of type F is higher than dexron, so it improves the hydraulic function in the transmission, firmer, more positive shifts.

On Jake's site, he used to not recommend using synthetic fluid, not sure if that is still up on his site, or not. He wasn't specific why he didn't recommend it though.

I was told that no matter who made, say dexron, it all was made to certain specs by GM, I assume type F was the same as. It had to meet the manufacturers spec to be called dexron, so that the label of the refiner wasn't any different than another refiner, same quality no mater who refined, and blended it.

From Jake's FAQs:

What type of fluid should be used?

In most applications, regular Dexron III type fluid is fine. Dexron VI or synthetic is also fine but not necessary. In some very harsh conditions, the use of tractor transmission/hydraulic fluid can help fluid and clutch life. This fluid is clear and harder to see on the dipstick. It is equivalent to Caterpillar TO-4 fluid and is available in different viscosities. We recommend using the low viscosity if you decide to use it unless you are trying to use it to tighten up the converter stall slightly. We do not feel Type F fluid is up to modern specs but it will not harm anything to use it.

[Scott65]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

Thanks for posting the info. I'll have to do some more reading. I did the th400 rebuid myself that is in the car right now and so far so good. I have seen the hot spots on the clutches. So I'm wondering on brand specific synthetic oil that your builder recommends? I'm thinking GM dexron 6.

Thanks again.

Take a look at the Caterpillar TO-4 spec oils, as well as Hyguard. They offer better/heavier viscosity than regular ATF.
At the recommendation of the converter manufacturer, I use Cat TO-4 30wt in my TH400, and have for years now.

[FrankieT/A]

Back in the day the two big modifications to the TH400 were a "Bullet proof" sprag and a Cadillac clutch pack due to its increased clutch capacity. Now of course that has changed, our cars have more horsepower today.

As for fluid, B&M always recommended Type F fluid (Before they marketed their own) because of the Ford friction modifiers. I have used Type F since the seventies in all my automatics(3 speeds) and have never had a problem. I have never used a synthetic in any of my traditional automatics as of today so I can't speak about that. I do question the reaction of synthetics on older clutch lining material since that's about the only fluid available today as well as being more leak prone. Trans fluid is always supposed be backwards compatible but I don't know if they considered technology that old. JMHO

[ta man]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

Thanks for posting the info. I'll have to do some more reading. I did the th400 rebuid myself that is in the car right now and so far so good. I have seen the hot spots on the clutches. So I'm wondering on brand specific synthetic oil that your builder recommends? I'm thinking GM dexron 6.

Thanks again.

Red Max Life Valvoline

Please note..it is one of his recommendations..he likes the higher heat the synthetic can take before break down, he loves temp gauges, regular fluid changes, tossed out the restrictive "Mopar filter" that came with the B&M deeppan and added his own custom screen filter.

[78w72]

synthetic ATF is probably overkill for most street driven cars & even drag racing... but for many situations in other vehicles like trucks & suv's synthetic has a big advantage over conventional in that it can handle heat far better & wont break down as fast which is a big benefit/concern for towing or hauling heavy loads or off roading etc.

i like maxlife in general because its synthetic & has seal conditioners for older trans, use it in dex3 power steering units as well. & its priced very reasonable at ~$18/gallon.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I continue to like Type F. If a TH400 is cooking fluid and someone thinks synthetic is going to be a solution, i bwahahahhaaaaa! can't find the words.

Just cleaned and prepped a Big Car TH400 case and will build it in March, along side the goings through my Switch-Pitch TH400 which has sat since the 4L80 was commissioned.
The TH400 will be avail for anybody wanting to go high 9's or slower Normally Aspirated, and as usual, a low price (like Post 19) and nice clean looking assembly. HIS

[4dblnkldude]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

I continue to like Type F. If a TH400 is cooking fluid and someone thinks synthetic is going to be a solution, i bwahahahhaaaaa! can't find the words.

Just cleaned and prepped a Big Car TH400 case and will build it in March, along side the goings through my Switch-Pitch TH400 which has sat since the 4L80 was commissioned.
The TH400 will be avail for anybody wanting to go high 9's or slower Normally Aspirated, and as usual, a low price (like Post 19) and nice clean looking assembly. HIS

Jeez.... are you still in PA?

[Dragncar]

A B& M tech told me Trick Shift is standard type F with 10% synthetic type F.
I made my own for years. But got a couple 5 gallon buckets of Dextron cheap and am running it.
Your tranny does not know the difference. If it made a difference something is wrong with your trans.
And a Red Line tech told me all of there synthetic trans fluid, F, Dextron, Chrysler, its all the same. You trans does not know the difference. I got some Chrysler Red Line instead of F and called them. he said "run it". I did.

[carcrazy]

A few years back I paid around $1500 for a complete rebuild. That included a heavy duty sprag, shift kit and over 600 hp capability. Thought it was a tad on the high side.

[78w72]

*dexron...

[max 93]

I stopped at another shop today. He laughed when I told him the price I was given. His price is $1400 and he includes a custom converter.

[Cliff R]

No special fluid is needed, just plain old Dextron is fine in any of these transmissions. Does it hurt to run a custom "blend", synthetic, or something else, probably not but a complete waste of time/funds. I use plain old Dextron III or equivalent in all the units we've built here with zero issues in any area. The key to success is using good parts and getting the shift program nailed down.

Same thing with fancy red, blue frictions and heat treated or kolene steels. Stock Raybestos, Borg Warner and Alto is more than adequate for any power level.

The cost of a rebuild is simple, rebuild parts, upgrades and labor. Since a TH400 does need a lot of help to survive in a high performance environment few "upgrades" are needed, at least costly ones.

A complete/correct rebuild should include steels, frictions, bands, bushings, thrust washers, seals, and gaskets. It may include a shift kit if the builder doesn't do their own "home-brew" deal. So parts easily under $300 for everything needed.

Upgrades. If you have an early trans with a smooth direct drum the 34 element sprag upgrade is under $100 including he spriral lock ring to retain it. If you have later trans with the roller clutch or "notched" drum you'll need to buy a 4L80E drum or smooth TH400 drum. If you go 4L80E might as well outfit in with the steel apply piston with molded seals. So a couple hundreds bucks there depending on what you find and end up with.

So we're up around the $600 for parts if you needed the direct drum replacement. Next add for any worn hard parts, or upgrades. Then add labor and if you didn't need any hard parts replaced your build should EASILY come in well under $1000. Most of the builds I've done here were around $700-900 parts and labor. Expect to spend $600 or so on a good converter, but you can cheap out there and still keep the entire job under $1000 without much effort.

Why and how folks are spending $1400-2500 or even more for TH400 "builds" is beyond me, unless they are buying into some BS about how they need billet internals and expensive upgrades to a trans that will EASILY handle big power without them. Also keep in mind that there are a LOT of "builders" out there that buy a $30 seal/gasket kit and outfit everything inside your trans from nicely used/sanded steels, frictions and bands they have hanging on nails around the shop removed from other units they've torn down over the years. Your shift "kit" is nothing more than drilling a couple of holes in the separator plate, shimming the PR valve, leaving off a sealing ring and blocking a feed hole in the case. So basically you could pay $1000, $1400 or even more for a $30 effort and never know it.........Cliff

[max 93]

Thanks Cliff. Glad to see you back on the forum. The pricing you listed is kinda what I had in mind. The shop I ended up dropping it off at builds there own converters and that’s included in the $1400 rebuild.

[Half-Inch Stud]

CLIFF, indeed.


My opinion is When programmed as you indicate, the Converter is the life of the TH400, for Normal inhale into the mid 9's and slower.

Enjoying the 4L80 for OD, but just love the TH400 HYD Valvebody Automatic performance. HIS