[Murf]

Hi all! Hope your having a good holiday season. What would you guys think of using the 5845 springs with .615 valve lift?

I ordered a “ head builder set” from Butler a few days ago for a bare set of Speedmaster heads. They ask for cam & rocker specs. I listed .362 lobe lift and 1.7 rocker ratio for .615 total.

I received the invoice email today and was sorta surprised that they are shipping 5845’s for me to use. According to the Edelbrock specs that’s .035 from coil bind if everything is correct.

Any thoughts?

ETA, I’ve sent Butler an email. Hopefully they will reply soon.

Thanks
Murf

[4dblnkldude]

I did not use them in my top end kit I got from butler. I am using 1.65's and at .619 lift. I thought it was close too so I called my machinist he said no way. I brough the heads to him, and I cant remember the name of the springs he used.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by 4dblnkldude

I did not use them in my top end kit I got from butler. I am using 1.65's and at .619 lift. I thought it was close too so I called my machinist he said no way. I brough the heads to him, and I cant remember the name of the springs he used.

Did Butler give you a refund on them?

Thanks
Murf

[Murf]

Originally Posted by 4dblnkldude

I did not use them in my top end kit I got from butler. I am using 1.65's and at .619 lift. I thought it was close too so I called my machinist he said no way. I brough the heads to him, and I cant remember the name of the springs he used.

Is there any way you could find out what he used?

Thanks
Murf

[4dblnkldude]

Originally Posted by Murf

Is there any way you could find out what he used?

Thanks
Murf

I never even asked for a refund, they are sitting in the cabinet. I'll use them on something else. I bought the whole kit from him 3 years ago, I think I got the 3318 roller with morel lifters. I will give him a call today. I think he called them pack springs.

[Murf]

Thanks!

[steve25]

First off I hope your running a solid roller cam because those springs with your 1.800” installed height are rated at 420 psi at only .580” lift, no less your .615” lift!

Also as you are questioning it would seem that .580”
is the max lift they should be used at, so your .615” lift would seem to be a problem.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by steve25

First off I hope your running a solid roller cam because those springs with your 1.800” installed height are rated at 420 psi at only .580” lift, no less your .615” lift!

Also as you are questioning it would seem that .580”
is the max lift they should be used at, so your .615” lift would seem to be a problem.

Hi Steve, Yes that’s why I’m questioning Butlers choice of these springs. I supplied them with all the info they asked for. I sent an email questioning the choice. I will post there response when I get one.

Thanks
Murf

[Chris-Austria]

I also calculated and asked around to use these springs with only .58 or .59 lift... they might work but the risk is not worth it. I would for sure use different springs for more than .58 lift.

Maybe Butler didn't calculate with 1.7 rockers.. with 1.5 rockers the springs could be fine to use.

[Steve C.]

Butler Aluminum 72cc Round Port Head Builder Kit, with Speedmaster Castings

"Choose your options and we will do the rest to make sure you get the right parts to build custom Butler Aluminum heads. We can help get the parts you need for a full rebuild."

Included....

"Matching Crower, Edelbrock, DHP or Comp Springs matched to your cam"

Edelbrock 5845 Valve Springs are marketed for a Hyd Roller.

.

[i82much]

if you read the summit question and answer section there is some info about the spring rate that might be of interest.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Butler Aluminum 72cc Round Port Head Builder Kit, with Speedmaster Castings

"Choose your options and we will do the rest to make sure you get the right parts to build custom Butler Aluminum heads. We can help get the parts you need for a full rebuild."

Included....

"Matching Crower, Edelbrock, DHP or Comp Springs matched to your cam"

Edelbrock 5845 Valve Springs are marketed for a Hyd Roller.

.

Hi Steve, I’m a little dense this morning, I guess. I’m not sure what you are telling me. Are you saying you would use these springs @ .615 valve lift?

Originally Posted by i82much

if you read the summit question and answer section there is some info about the spring rate that might be of interest.

I82much, I went and read the Q & A and the reviews @ Summit. Again, I must be a little slow this morning. I didn’t really see much there. It seems the spring rate may be in question but my main concern was coil bind clearance.
I was not impressed with the “Edelbrock tech’s” answer to the guy asking about using these springs with .620 lift.

Jason, These 5845 valve springs will give you 150lbs seat closed pressure, and 420lbs open pressure intended for hydraulic roller or mechanical flat tappet camshafts...
Edelbrock
Edelbrock Answer - 7/26/2020

If there’s something there that I’m missing would you please point it out for me?
I’ll ask you the same question as I ask Steve C.
Would you use these springs on a .615 lift hyd roller?

Thanks to you both for your help!
Murf

[steve25]

That’s a definitive big NO!

DO NOT USE THOSE WITH .615” lift, period!!!
So let’s please stop this what seems like endless circle of the same question, only posted up on different days!
Gez!!

[Steve C.]

I'm not recommending those springs here or anybody else for that matter.

I was just confirming Butler information from their website.

And mentioned the spring is intended for a hydraulic roller profile, that stated by both Butler and Edelbrock.

"Choose your options and we will do the rest to make sure you get the right parts". And they further state they will match the springs to 'your' cam.

Apparently there was a mix up.


.



.

[Murf]

Hey Steve 25, thanks for your reply but I don’t know why you gotta be like that. ��

I asked the question, you replied. I agree with your reply. Other people also replied and I am trying to understand what they are saying.

I think that if someone takes the time to try and help me, I should at least acknowledge they are trying to help and try and understand what they are telling me.

I’m sorry if this bothers you and again Thanks for your help!
Murf

ETA I posted Steve changed to Steve25 for clarification.

[Murf]

Gotcha Steve C. I’ll see what they say when they return my email. This is my order.


Thanks
Murf

[i82much]

re: summit, yes I was referring to the spring rate issue since it was brought up elsewhere in the thread.

re: steve25 - i gotta laugh because i have received a few gruff comments from different board members over the years. all i can say is that i have gotten some of my best technical information from some of the same people that have given me the crankier responses. it's like there's some genetic requirement that the more you know about old cars, the crankier you have to be on the internet

[Steve C.]

Here is information on the Speedmaster Pontiac Roller Assembled Cylinder Heads:

https://www.speedmaster79.com/Pontia...-Cylinder-Head

Note it states a 1.450" O.D. Dual valve spring used.
They rate it with a 0.580" max lift.
It is my understanding the assembled head is rated with a 1.800" installed height.

I will bet my bottom dollar that this is the valve spring they use on the assembled cylinder head:

https://www.speedmaster79.com/1.450-....060-Coil-Bind

I based my opinion on the above spring based on the selection of springs here:

https://www.speedmaster79.com/engine.../valve-springs

( Information provided in this post does not represent any endorsement of the product(s). Nor any agreement on my part regarding the valve spring specifications, or how they were determined. It is not based on personal experience and is offered for general interest only )

.

[Murf]

Well, I think we can put this one to bed. 😁 I thought their selection was wrong but thought I might have been missing something. I appreciate everyone’s input & wish you all a Happy New Year!

At the risk of being booed off the stage. 😁 Do any of you have a spring recommendation for my situation?

Thanks again everyone!

Murg

[Jay S]

Murf, my first pick with your XFI HR cam and 1.7 rockers is a 26918 Compcams beehive with the installed height set at 1.75”.

Econo springs I would do the 98441 Howard’s for a 1.8” height. The other comp spring that would work is a 914, or a 26918. 26918 is just as expensive as a beehive though, but a very nice spring imho. Take your pick.

Someone at Bulter sure likes too set up people with those eddy 5845 springs. 5845’s seem to be Butlers go to one size fits all spring.