[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Kelvin Poe

Like Calvin said, if we would have had the gas carb dialed in or a different one, hp would not be much different, just a higher rpm peak on gas. But, torque is a fair amount different, 727 on gas and 760 on alky. When I dyno'd my old motor, I had a good gas carb tuned for it, along with my alky carb and hp was really close, + or - a few. But, even on that combo, there was a big difference in torque.

X2 on that

Tom V.

[dda72]

Originally Posted by Kelvin Poe

Hi Guys,

I haven’t posted here much lately and thought real hard about not posting this. But, against my better judgment, because of how CV-1 threads normally go, I decided to go ahead and post anyway. I know, aside from the few guys that seem to bash CV-1’s every chance they get, there are a lot of other guys that would be interested in this info. So, here we go.

But, first of all, a big THANKS goes out to Calvin Hill and Jim Sammons for all their help, couldn’t have done it without them.

Anyway, I finally finished up my new CV-1 combo, so here it is. Now, first of all, this was NOT a max effort, all out, heads-up class build, not even close. I’m just a bracket racer and it had been about 6 years since I had done anything other then general maintenance to my engine, so it was time. I went into this as just a simple freshen up and in the process, upgrading my existing KRE Hi-port top end to CV-1’s. I had no horsepower goal in mind, although I was hoping for about 75-100hp over my old combo. Of course, this isn’t meant to be any kind of apples to apples head comparison, so don’t take it as that. I’m just showing my old and new combo and what horsepower I gained from the swap, it’s up to you to do what you want with this info.

Now, my original combo, as you can see most of this in my sig, was an aluminum IA2 block, 525ci (4.310 X 4.500), forged crank, GRP aluminum rods and Ross pistons, all from Butler. Compression was 14:1 with KRE Hi-ports (standard pushrod location), and a BOP intake, both heads and intake ported by Dan Barton, with the heads flowing 388cfm, BOP belt drive and a 1250 dominator on alcohol. The cam was a Comp cam 4-7 swap with .471 lobe lift and 285/288 duration at .050 on a 110 centerline and running 1.65 rockers. This combo dyno’d at 822hp @ 6800rpm and 719tq @ 5500rpm.

For the new combo we had to go to a 4.325 bore to clean it up, same 4.500 stroke crank, which makes it a 529ci. The rods were due to be replaced, but I stuck with the GRP rods and went with Diamond pistons. I had to go with a slight dome (about .060) on the pistons to keep the compression at 14:1, because of the slightly bigger combustion chambers of the CV-1 heads. The heads are Calvin Hill’s Fusion port 435cfm versions, and Rolands cast tunnel ram. Had to replace the cam also, because the old one was showing some flaking on a couple of the lobes. But, I stuck with the Comp cam and a .471 lobe lift. The duration is now 285/300 at .050, 114 centerline and a standard Pontiac firing order, No 4-7 swap. Still on alcohol with the same carb and headers.

Now to the dyno, with turned out much better then I anticipated. The last pull we made, which was also the best, ended at 974hp @ 7300rpm, 760ftlbs. tq @ 6000rpm with the timing set at 34. We played with the timing everywhere from 25 to 36, and 34 is where it like it. We initially degreed the cam in on the stand and never played with cam timing on the dyno. That’s an increase of more then 150hp with basically just a top end swap. We could have kept going and gotten a little more out of it, but I was more then happy with that and it was getting late, so we called it good. As I said, this is just a bracket combo and I wasn’t worried about trying to get every last ounce of power out of it.

Again, this is NOT intended to be an apples to apples head comparison, so don’t take it as that.

I’ll be more then happy to answer any and all questions about this combo, but if this thread starts going south like all the other CV-1 threads, then I’m out.

Kelvin

Congrats Kelvin and team! Nice job!

Dwight

[Jim Robertson]

Very nicely done. Another tough hot rod Pontiac. Congrats to you and your team. See you soon.

PS Abilene track is planning its annual Leftover Nationals on Nov 28-30. Come on down if you are not iced in...it will probably be 80 degrees here!

[john marcella]

Wow, look at everybody playing nice together.

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Wow, look at everybody playing nice together.

here we go...

[Bnick166]

Moe, Larry, Cheese................

[65nss4spdGTO]

I've had a few guys ask me about the specifics regarding the cam.

It's a standard Pontiac cam journal with the Pontiac firing order.

See the attached a picture of the actual cam card with the grind numbers used.

Thanks.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Wow, look at everybody playing nice together.

I'm sure if Kelvin said he was going to come out and skull drag some of the top NA guys in the Pontiac world it would have turned out different.

Good luck too him! It will be an easy seven second ride when it comes out!

[Aaron Quinton]

Keep up the good work! PPTTFMF!

Originally Posted by john marcella

Wow, look at everybody playing nice together.

[Exil]

You added 4cid with 38hp per inch!

What was the total cost of each top end? Like as cast heads & intake & then the extra porting for each? Would like to see if it was close & see what the cost of the 38hp per inch was. Be nice to see if the CV1's were about the same or close for the initial cost & port work as the HPs.

Looks like each set is about the same % of being max ported, correct? HP's max around 400ish & CV1's maybe 450ish? I should know the #'s but I stopped watching the CV1 bash threads because of the low mental age limit that seemed to be strictly enforced.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I'm sure if Kelvin said he was going to come out and skull drag some of the top NA guys in the Pontiac world it would have turned out different.

Good luck too him! It will be an easy seven second ride when it comes out!

Kelvin Poe is a First Class Act, has always worked very hard with his combination, and doesn't talk smack. He just runs a number and tries to do better each time he runs.

Most People understand that deal.

Tom V.

[JKrull66]

Nice! It takes a lot to get it to all come together.

[BruceWilkie]

Nice package Kelvin. Should be a fast ride.

[Kelvin Poe]

Originally Posted by Exil

You added 4cid with 38hp per inch!

What was the total cost of each top end? Like as cast heads & intake & then the extra porting for each? Would like to see if it was close & see what the cost of the 38hp per inch was. Be nice to see if the CV1's were about the same or close for the initial cost & port work as the HPs.

Looks like each set is about the same % of being max ported, correct? HP's max around 400ish & CV1's maybe 450ish? I should know the #'s but I stopped watching the CV1 bash threads because of the low mental age limit that seemed to be strictly enforced.

Well, there are too many variables to do that kind of cost and hp per cubic inch comparison. But, I can tell you this, my CV-1's cost me $4695 ready to bolt on. Unfortunately for me, I had more then that in my HP's. But that was my fault. Long story short, I bought them bare and paid to have them ported and assembled. I ran them for a half a season and wasn't happy with them. They only flowed around 355 at that time. So, I pulled them off over the winter, sent them to Dan Barton and he got 388 out of them. He had to do a lot to fix what had been done, so it ended up costing me twice, live and learn. . The intakes, the BOP vs the tunnel ram, were about a wash with what I had in them.

As for your percentages, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the standard port HP's, like mine were, probably do max around 400, or a little better. But you can get well over 400 if you go with their wide port HP's and offsets. And the CV-1's, I'm pretty sure, will go well over 450 maxed out.

[grnmnstr]

Kelvin, my apologies.

I think you do have a 7 sec ride. I was basing my assumption off the 388 cfm heads.
Now I reread you combo and it says 435 cfm from the CV-1s.

7's shouldn't be a problem.

Good luck.

[ho428]

Seeing the flow potential of both wouldn't a carb fed CV-1 to RA-V match up be interesting?
Would easily be well over 2000 N/A hp at the start line.

[Kelvin Poe]

Originally Posted by grnmnstr

Kelvin, my apologies.

I think you do have a 7 sec ride. I was basing my assumption off the 388 cfm heads.
Now I reread you combo and it says 435 cfm from the CV-1s.

7's shouldn't be a problem.

Good luck.

No problem, Tom. Thanks

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Kelvin Poe

As for your percentages, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the standard port HP's, like mine were, probably do max around 400, or a little better. But you can get well over 400 if you go with their wide port HP's and offsets. And the CV-1's, I'm pretty sure, will go well over 450 maxed out.

I have not seen a standard port KRE HP go 400 CFM.

IMO, your original set of High Ports after Dan Barton worked them was about as much as you can get out of them without moving the push rod.

My CNC KRE HP's flow right around 420 CFM with a .750" offset.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[Jack Ferris]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Kelvin Poe is a First Class Act, has always worked very hard with his combination, and doesn't talk smack. He just runs a number and tries to do better each time he runs.

Most People understand that deal.

Tom V.

I couldn't agree more. I got the opprotunity to purches his old HP/BOP set up and even though I've been a slack ass on my chassis build and have yet to run them, I am very much looking forward to using them.

[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I'm sure if Kelvin said he was going to come out and skull drag some of the top NA guys in the Pontiac world it would have turned out different.

Good luck too him! It will be an easy seven second ride when it comes out!

ALL of you guys in competitive racing do that, and funny thing is, only the #1 spot can really claim anything in racing. Everything else is really, "well, if I hadn't broken my d**k I would have done so and so". I'm sure the top mustang and chevy guys would get a good laugh. I'm in with those that think you all acted like children.

It just really sucks that you guys bashed so hard, and so often, that these heads are now not available. That stuff should stay over on yellow bullet "where the weak are killed and...yeah, whatever". I'd love to have a convertible set.

Beautiful car Kelvin, and a very nice new bullet. Another 150 hp is nothing to sneeze at at those hp levels for a head change.