[opnwide]

I am going through my valve train, trying to figure out why rebuilt engine is burning so much oil. I noticed that my Butler Viton oil stem seals are sliding on and off the guide. Are they supposed to be a pressed fit or maybe glued to place? I don't think they're supposed to just slide off the guide. I tried a new Viton seal, and it also slides on and off the guide very easily. I hope my guides weren't machined too small in diam!

Also, my ex. guides were not cut for the Viton seals. I understand this is normal as the ex. does not need the same oil control. There are rubber umbrella seals on all the ex. valves. Should I leave these on there since I'm having oil control problems, or am I asking for trouble with ex. guide lubrication. (engine is turbocharged)

I am using Ferrea valves which don't have the extra groove for keeper o-ring seal.

FWIW: the fancy $40 valve spring compressors are worthless with dual springs. A $10 lever-style compressor got the job done no sweat.

Anybody want to buy a $40 valve spring compressor--Cheap?


thanks
greg

[track73]

There are 2 different size seals (.500 & .531). You may have the big one with the small guide. I just installed some on a head and had to use a tool to "pound" them in. And you should really get the exhaust machines for PC type seals.

[67 Lamnas]

Originally Posted by opnwide

I am going through my valve train, trying to figure out why rebuilt engine is burning so much oil. I noticed that my Butler Viton oil stem seals are sliding on and off the guide. Are they supposed to be a pressed fit or maybe glued to place? I don't think they're supposed to just slide off the guide. I tried a new Viton seal, and it also slides on and off the guide very easily. I hope my guides weren't machined too small in diam!

Also, my ex. guides were not cut for the Viton seals. I understand this is normal as the ex. does not need the same oil control. There are rubber umbrella seals on all the ex. valves. Should I leave these on there since I'm having oil control problems, or am I asking for trouble with ex. guide lubrication. (engine is turbocharged)

I am using Ferrea valves which don't have the extra groove for keeper o-ring seal.

FWIW: the fancy $40 valve spring compressors are worthless with dual springs. A $10 lever-style compressor got the job done no sweat.

Anybody want to buy a $40 valve spring compressor--Cheap?


thanks
greg

FWIW: This valve spring compressor works just great on dual valve springs.......

http://www.amazon.com/Calvan-571-Ove.../dp/B004YEYVAI

There ARE others though, that aren't worth a crap, due to the "short" dogs

[chiphead]

Yeah the viton seals should stay stationary on the top of the valveguide. I've found that it can be necessary to run vitons or PC on the exhaust guides as well if the guide clearance is on the high side. Oil can run down the valvestems and burn on the heads of the exhaust valves, making smoke and carbon. You don't see the residue on the plugs because it's burning on the exhaust valve.

Sure it's not a turbo problem?

[opnwide]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Sure it's not a turbo problem?

Could be turbo, but those floppy intake valve seals aren't cutting it. I'm gonna see if I can get Butler to send me some smaller diam seals. While car is down I'm gonna re-route the turbo oil drain a little differently.

I really don't wanna pull the heads off to machine the ex guides. It would be easier to pull whole engine, so I guess I'll keep the umbrella seals on those for now. I just didn't want to starve the ex. for oil, which doesn't seem likely.

thanks everyone

[70 bird]

Keep the seals on the exhaust guides, When you let off the gas your turbine is still going like hell and tries to suck oil down the exhaust guides.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Factory heads cut for boot type seals can be around .561 & come in most rebuilder gasket sets. You need to check the guide with a caliper. I have seen a lot of heads not cut for exh seals. using just the 0-rings.

I cut the intake and exhaust to .530 and use the Pioneer teflon/viton lock type seal.

ps.......... check the turbo seals.

[aerosmyth]

Guys, make sure we are talking about the same seal types. The white teflon Corteco's are a type that many shops install. They are packaged with Crower kits, Butler installs on a few of the heads Ive redone. The lower hoop spring creates a gap from the non concentric hoop (not garter) and allows a perfect suction passage from the lower spring area of the intakes. ALL 8 were SUCKING oil on a pair of #16s I just rebuilt. I installed the push-on VITON (blue elastomer) with coiled garter spring to stem and the molded full tubed base. Been running these on my 66WS for 10 years..not a burned drop of oil in the chambers after I had the Corteco (or equiv Teflons). aero

[opnwide]

I finally got my new .500 blue viton seals in today (backordered) and they seem too small.
Do I have to hammer the .500 seal over the .530 guide? 0.030" seems a bit much for an interference fit, but if it goes then it should definitely hold.

I just wanted to ask before I mess up my new Comp Cams seals.

[67 Lamnas]

Originally Posted by track73

There are 2 different size seals (.500 & .531). You may have the big one with the small guide. I just installed some on a head and had to use a tool to "pound" them in. And you should really get the exhaust machines for PC type seals.

Originally Posted by opnwide

I finally got my new .500 blue viton seals in today (backordered) and they seem too small.
Do I have to hammer the .500 seal over the .530 guide? 0.030" seems a bit much for an interference fit, but if it goes then it should definitely hold.

I just wanted to ask before I mess up my new Comp Cams seals.

.531 guides require a .531 seal. Your .500 seals are for a .500 guide.

[opnwide]

My .531 seals won't stay on my .531 guides. That's why I ordered the .500s.

I thought maybe an interference fit was nec, as the .531s just slip on and off no problem. There doesn't seem to be any real info out there on this subject. Maybe I'm the only one in the world with this problem.

I guess I'll call Butler on monday.

[grandville455]

Take a dial caliper and measure it then u will know sure.

[opnwide]

Originally Posted by grandville455

Take a dial caliper and measure it then u will know sure.

I did measure it with a dial caliper. It measures out at .530" Of course the inside diam of the Butler seals also measure about .530" Seems to me there should be a little interference fit for these things to stay on.

Does anyone else have any .530 seals that they could measure the id? Did Butler sell me some messed up seals?

[KEN CROCIE]

just measured my white all teflon seals for .530" guides. They mes. .500" +or- .005"

[opnwide]

Ken,

Somehow I am not surprised. I've got the Viton seals which are more flexible than the teflon so I would expect similar (maybe even smaller) id with the Viton.

The .500 Viton seals that i got from Comp Cams do not have a Viton lining inside the "tin can" like my .530 seals do. It appears that the "tin can" is just pressed onto a .500 guide using the metal/metal interface as the grip.


I def need to talk to Butler monday.

[wheelspin]

Originally Posted by opnwide

Could be turbo, but those floppy intake valve seals aren't cutting it. I'm gonna see if I can get Butler to send me some smaller diam seals. While car is down I'm gonna re-route the turbo oil drain a little differently.

I really don't wanna pull the heads off to machine the ex guides. It would be easier to pull whole engine, so I guess I'll keep the umbrella seals on those for now. I just didn't want to starve the ex. for oil, which doesn't seem likely.

thanks everyone

Hi Greg,
It's been my experience that turbos pass some oil no matter how they are setup. I added aftermarket turbos kits to three BMW motorcycles (K-1100 4-cyl. & R-100 twins) and my wife's 97 Eclipse Spyder second gen factory turbo all use/d around a half a quart during their 3,000 service intervals.

[74SDformula]

opnwide, we sometimes order seals from U.S. Seal Inc. out of Ft. Gratiot, MI. They offer a .530 id seal AND a .529 id seal. I typically use the .530 seals on replacement bronze guides that have the serrated top. I like using the .529 seals on guides that have a smooth machined top. U.S. Seal can be reached at 1-800-777-6974

[KEN CROCIE]

I read somewhere that seals are available to the OEMs with different leakage rates. Anyone have info on this subject ?