[Greg Reid]

Ok, thanks for that info.

[Ron Landis]

Originally Posted by wrea3_98

Not sure who makes the Summit although it is a well know maker as I have seen the exact same grind thru one of them. Elgin makes a cam like this except its .443 465 lift instead of 442/465. Same other specs.

if the collapse of CC will affect availability of the Summit cams. Ron

[PaulatFast]

You all know Summit doesn't make cams, or anything else for that matter.
The "Summit" cams are available at ANY auto parts store. They have a sealed power part number. SP-??? I can't recall the number exactly, your corner Advance, Autozone, O'Reilly, NAPA, Car Quest, etc. can supply the number.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by PaulatFast

You all know Summit doesn't make cams, or anything else for that matter.
The "Summit" cams are available at ANY auto parts store. They have a sealed power part number. SP-??? I can't recall the number exactly, your corner Advance, Autozone, O'Reilly, NAPA, Car Quest, etc. can supply the number.

How do you get them to cross reference the Summit number? For instance, if I want the 2801?

[PaulatFast]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

How do you get them to cross reference the Summit number? For instance, if I want the 2801?

Have them look up sealed power Pontiac cams, you'll find there are three listed and they have the exact same lift and duration numbers as the "Summit" cams.

[Greg Reid]

Good to know. Thanks.

[PONTIAC LARRY]

The 214/224 112 LSA .442/.465 cam is a generic that can be found in probably a dozen different wrappers, I thought they were all ground by Mellings like the OEM ones? Wherever you get one , it is the absolute, uncontested/hi-performance/bestvalue/broad application/street/strip, 389/400 ci/ daily driver cam..... and it is all the cam needed to build a 13 second 1/4 mile heathly performing street car..

The K2802 Summit 224/234 cam is TOO big for most 400 applications and performance will suffer overall.. but it IS the equivent - no brainer combo for a hi-po 12 sec 455 setup on a budget..once again best value...

Word !

[wrea3_98]

AMEN !!

[se428bandit]

I ran a 744 in my 1977 T/A back in the early 90's.It was adv 2 degrees in a 8.5 compression 400 6x heads,455 HO intake, ram air III exhaust manifolds, 3.42 gear.With a 2800 stall it pulled really well but with a stock conv [1800] it was a PIG out of the gate.When it was running well i ran a friends 1973 firebird which ran 12.80's and he only beat me by a fender.I would have probably out run him if my trans wasn't slipping between shifts.
A few days after the race my trans took a crap and it was so long to the stall conv and the 1800 stall went in.If you buy the 744 i would adv it at least 2 if not 4 degrees.I was very happy with the performance it had,it was my daily driver.Driving it to the track [110 miles one way] it went 8.68 @ 82 MPH on a 90 degrees heat.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC LARRY

The 214/224 112 LSA .442/.465 cam is a generic that can be found in probably a dozen different wrappers, I thought they were all ground by Mellings like the OEM ones? Wherever you get one , it is the absolute, uncontested/hi-performance/bestvalue/broad application/street/strip, 389/400 ci/ daily driver cam..... and it is all the cam needed to build a 13 second 1/4 mile heathly performing street car..

H-O Racing did tests in the early days to show that increasing the lift for the D-port heads to about that level was beneficial. When my Judge's Ram Air III 4-speed engine was rebuilt in 1980, I used their HC-02 cam with lift of .465/.469. I do not remember it's duration, but I have always liked it. Going over .470 with stock D-port heads added little/nothing if I remember their flow tests correctly. (I have the original parts, but I also used chrome moly push rods, different springs, 7/16 studs with poly locks, etc, but everything looks completely stock on the outside.)

[tryconcom]

H.O.s HC-02 was a 744 profile (224/236 at .050) with 1.65 rocker lift added. No need to buy 1.65 rockers. Testimoney at the time (I BELIEVE LATE 70S/EARLY80S) INDICATED IT WOULD PULL LIKE A BEAR TO 6,500/6,600 RPMS.

[KEN CROCIE]

The HC-02 was 232/244@.050" with .470"/.485" lift. Back in the 70s, when we were pulling these engines apart for the first time, we found the 744 cams were worn out/gone flat in much greater proportion than the 066/067/068/041 cams. I think Pontiac tried one too many times to stretch the duration of the basic 067 profile without adding lift that caused excessive wear to the 744. I would never use one just for that reason.The HC-02 HP peak was @ 5600 on a 400 and would pull good to 6100.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

The HC-02 was 232/244@.050" with .470"/.485" lift. .The HC-02 HP peak was @ 5600 on a 400 and would pull good to 6100.

From my memory, I would have guessed that those lift numbers were for the HC-03 cam, but I turn 50 this year and 1980 was a long time ago....................and you were there!--not me.

I wanted to maintain my Judge's original engine so I did not run it at WOT very much after the 1980 rebuild, but I can vouch for it running well up there the times that I did. I did have to show a few others that it was not all show.

[tryconcom]

After reading Ken's post, I stand corrected, I had initially quoted specs from L&M Super duty engineering of temple city, ca - book, called-"PONTIAC, Modifications and equipment for pontiac engines"- produced in the mid/late 70s. they had designed two cams in cooperation with Crower cams, a super 744 called a 744HL (for high lift) and a super 041 called a 041HL. I mixed these cams up with the HO veriety. Please note, L&M openly stated concerning their 744HL and I quote from the source preiviously identified "this cam has a somewhat hairy idle but pulls like a bear from 1500 rpm right up till 7000. Did anyone ever purchase one of these cams from them?, if so how did they run? If anyone has an L&M 744HL in good shape, I would like to buy it . Pm or email me.

[KEN CROCIE]

The H-O Racing HC-02 bore a grind number of 744HL and the HC-03 bore a grind number of 041HL. I believe L&M was buying the cams from us. Our earliest HC series cams were indeed ground by Crower. The Early HC-02s Had the same duration with .465"/.469" lift.

[Bet Winner]

Thanks, Ken. I was pretty sure that I remembered the .465/.469 lift numbers. It is amazing what sticks in a young guy's head when he is really interested in something.

And, tryconcom, the cam runs really well, although I never ran it to 7000 rpm. And the idle is fantastic!!! I have this cam in my Ram Air III Judge with the 3:55 rear and a 4-speed. The entire car is bone stock except for the few internal engine changes. I never installed the H-O recommended carb jets and metering rods, but I still have them. I was an H-O addict...................

[tryconcom]

I too, was an H.O. addict.

[tryconcom]

Bet; if your RAIII is an early model 69 4-spd, specs show it was originally cammed with a 744 and 1.50 rockers. So! any super 744(is that like enhanced interrogation!?) would just make it run better. I always ran 744s with 1.65 rockers and in 400s and 428s they ran great. I just picked up a Liberty Blue, 4-spd, 69 gto with a SR 428 and a bad cam-believed to be a 068 by idle. I have a good used 744 I am going to slip in shortly, you should smell burning rubber up where you guys are shortly. The trans is the original m-20 and a rebuilt 3:55 ten bolt posi. finishes the driveline. Sit down, hold on and don't scream too loud, it upsets my focus as I power shift at 6000 grand!

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by tryconcom

....as I power shift at 6000 grand!

That's some pretty high RPMs there! lol