[stockapearing455]

I'm thinking about running it. Not 100percent on all of the rules, but it looks like I might be doing k/s a with a 265 rated hp 350. This is with a 2 bbl carb I believe. Index is 12.65. Seems fast for a 2 bbl Rochester. Any input would be appreciated.

[ponyakr]

I am not currently running a Stocker, but have run a couple in the past. And I have recently considered building another. So, I did a LOT of research and asked a LOT of questions. I did manage to gather a LOT of info which I think could be VERY helpful to you. I'll be glad to share everything I know about it with you, if you'd like.

If so, we can do it here, as a thread, or if you'd rather, we can do it thru PM's or Email--whatever you'd like. From what I can gather, most of the guys who post on the race forum here, either run quick bracket cars or 7 & 8 sec heads up classes--not Stock Eliminator. So, you might prefer to do this thread in the street section.

I am by no means an expert on the subject, but I can point you to the rules and the info that will help you decide what engine / body combination might be competitive. If you can't get your Stocker combo to run the index or lower, you can not be competitive with a Stocker. You must dial your index or quicker in competition.

I assume that there are tracks in your area where they run Stockers, or else you would not be considering one. So, if you'd like for me to share with you the info I've gathered, let me know.

[ponyakr]

I see you have a '68 Lemans. From what I can gather, the 350 was the biggest engine allowed in a '68 Lemans. I feel that the 350HO engine would have a better chance of being competitive than the 2-barrel 350 you mentioned.

It has an NHRA hp factor of 305. It uses high compression #18 heads, and a 750cfm Q-jet. It is probably not the best Pontiac combo, but I'd consider it the best for the '68 Lemans. Using a 350 will require fairly high rpm, a good stall converter in the 4500 range and low gears.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2008

To make the needed power will require one of the special Stocker grind cams from somebody like Bullet or CC. You will also need much higher than stock valve spring pressure, and possibly even tool steel, limited travel lifters, for the higher rpm range.

You can use a TH350 with lightened racing parts, and a 2.75 low gear ratio. Or, if your budget permits, there are high dollar TH200's built just for Stocker racing. These have much lighter insides than the TH350.

And speaking of budget, I found out quick, you can NOT build a cheap Pontiac Stocker, unless you already have most of the parts you need and know all the Stocker tricks.
So, that is really the very 1st thing you need to consider--How much can I afford to spend on a Stocker ?

Well, that's enuff details for now. Does that scare you off from Stocker racing or make you want one more ?

[65nss4spdGTO]

I've not run a stocker, but through the years I've watched the class, followed the rules and looked at buying a few cars.

First thing you will find is many Stock and SS racer are not brand loyal, they will race any competitive combination. Because of Pontiac inflated factory HP ratings, it has always put us Indian head loyalists at a disadvantage. A few combinations have been refactored through the years, but not enough to make things competitive. My 65 GTO was factory rated at 360 HP with the tripower 389, but the 67 400 GTO engine with the quadrajet and better heads and cam was also rated at 360 HP.

Find a combination that is under rated, there are some fast 2bbl combinations running stock.

In the end it's bracket racing, but when you race another car in the same class you must run heads up. Also, take a close look at the indexes and how much faster the top 64 can run at the national events.

Good luck.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[ponjohn]

I have a very good frined that runs K/S with a 69 Camaro.

He was world champ and then runner up the following year.

It can be done with a stick shift.

Stock Elimin is by far my favorite class.

Brent Flynn on this board runs a 68 Firebird in Stock elimin.

[stockapearing455]

Thanks for the input. It can be expensive, but I already have the car at least. My car is a 68, but I have a1972 350 block, is that legal? I do think that the 4 bbl would make it more competitive, but not sure what class that would be yet. I will look it up.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by stockapearing455

...I have a1972 350 block, is that legal? I do think that the 4 bbl would make it more competitive, but not sure what class that would be yet. I will look it up.

Yes, any year 350P block is legal.

I have found most of the info on this site to be correct, but not all. It's always a good idea to use a calculator to divide the shipping weight of the car by the NHRA hp factor given to your particular engine. I just used a calculator to divide the listed weights for the coupe and hardtop, by the 305 hp factor. I got the same figures they did for the weight breaks.

Then you can add weight to make the next lower class, remove weight to make the minimum weight for the class your car naturally falls into, or remove more weight to make the min for the next higher class. So, you can run 3 different classes with the same car/engine.

"WEIGHT
All cars will be permitted to run on the class minimum weight, but may be no heavier than the minimum for the next heavier class. Car can move up (lighter) one class or down (heavier) one"

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2008

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2008

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

Here is something I learned that you may or may not know. 1st, the pinion in the 8.2 rear end is too small for serious drag racing. So, if you haven't already done it, you may wanna switch to a 12 bolt. But any rear you use must measure exactly the same, backing plate to backing plate, as your original rear end. Also you will want to run a light weight spool, good aftermarket axles, and a C-clip eliminator kit. If you don't have one, this legal rear will cost a chunk--maybe up to $3000 or so, depending on what a core costs, and how much of the assembly and set-up work you can do yourself, or friends will do for you.

[Mikes455Wagon]

Be prepared for cam swaps galore, carb tuning magic, expensive light transmissions, a stack of torque converter boxes, and a bunch of trial and error. The stocker group has lots and lots of secrets and are pretty tight lipped. Some though, will point you in the right direction and I am sure Brent will help you with what he can.

Also, TH200 transmissions are fast, remember that.

[Todd1035]

Your best bet is to either run the 4bbl 350 or the best option is the 400 combo rated at 325 HP for that car. You should be able to run the index pretty easy with basic components.
If you have any questions about running in stock, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to point you in the right direction. Most of the guys that run Pontiacs in the stock class are pretty friendly and will try to help. Good luck if you go through with it. Its a fun class. My name is Todd Hoven and I race stock in Division one

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Todd1035

...the best option is the 400 combo rated at 325 HP for that car...

According to the info I can find, a 400 engine was not available in a 1968 Lemans. So, unless you can convert it into a fake GTO, which will pass NHRA tech as a GTO, then I don't see how you can legally run a 400 in your '68 Lemans. But hey, I could be wrong. If so, it ain't the 1st time.

If I read this Class Racer Info page correctly, it shows that the 350hp 400 engine, which has an NHRA hp factor of 325hp, is legal only in the GTO coupe and the GTO convertible--NOT in any Lemans model. If I am reading this info wrong, or it is not correct, somebody please give me a link to the site which shows the 400 engine legal in a '68 Lemans. Thanks !

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2015

By the way, this site lists a coupe 2-door, and a coupe 2-door hardtop. Do you know which model you have ? The hardtop is just enuff heavier to make one class lower, than the coupe.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2008

[KO]

hardtop Lemans can be a GTO with just a hood and tail light swap

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by KO

hardtop Lemans can be a GTO with just a hood and tail light swap

Only problem with that is that NHRA is real picky about details. You'll have to put all the correct GTO emblems, decals, etc, on it. But, IF the car is legally changed to a GTO that will pass tech, then I agree that the 400 at 325hp would be a better choice than the 350 at 305hp.

This engine will be almost identical to the one Todd and Brent are racing in 338hp factored '68 Birds. So they should be able to give plenty of good info on a 400 build for the '68 GTO.

[Todd1035]

Your right. no 400 in a Tempest/Lemans. KO is right. Put a hood and tail lights on it and go. 1 grill emblem will be fine. Its not that big a deal. You will get through tech no problem. A few GTO's had chrome bumpers.

[77 TRASHCAN]

If you can find the edition of High Performance Pontiac, 1-2 years ago that featured Scott Burton's 70 RAIV Formula B/ stocker, you'll have a glimpse into a competitive stock elim. car, AND engine. Scott is the mastermind behind his and his son Brad's cars. He would also be a good person to talk to, he is willing to help other Pontiac racers. He and Brad are both on the entry list at the Phoenix race, which starts in one week from tomorrow.

Even though your car/engine is different, you can get a vision of what it takes...

[ponyakr]

Here's a link to the HPP article TRASHCAN is referring to.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...am_air_iv.html

But thankfully you want have to run the super high rpm cam, lifters, valve train that Scott runs. All you must do is run your index or quicker. Brent has built his motor on a budget, and runs under the index.

He is now going to make it a little quicker, with a new cam and other stuff. If his new parts work, and you decide to go the GTO/400 route, who knows, he may even sell you some of his old parts to help finance some new parts for his car.

You will need a GOOD converter. There are lots of Stock guys who have tried a lot of different converters, trying to make small ET gains. So, you can probably save some $$ by finding one of these slightly used converters for your 1st build. The good ones, like the ATI Treemaster cost like $900 +, new.

Also, a good TH400 with the 34 element sprag, will probably allow you to run the index. Then if you wanna go quicker, you can invest in one of the lighter, quicker trannies, later on down the road.

[Brent Flynn]

Originally Posted by stockapearing455

I'm thinking about running it. Not 100percent on all of the rules, but it looks like I might be doing k/s a with a 265 rated hp 350. This is with a 2 bbl carb I believe. Index is 12.65. Seems fast for a 2 bbl Rochester. Any input would be appreciated.

Hi, i run Stock, as well, even though im a newbie, i have been following it for years.
I had a '68 Chrome bumper GTO, in the '80s...it was the real deal... If i had your car, i'd put a hood on it, GTO tail lenses, and a GTO Grille emblem, and stuff a 400 into , right quick. I built a low budget 400/330 hp combo for my car... ran .26 under the 11.70 index with a mild cam, 400 turbo, standard lifters, and fairly tight( compared to most) 8'' converter... It can be done... You just need to have a machinist that knows something, or alot of things, about Stock Elim. Your best bet would be F/SA with your car, or maybe G...depending on weight. I say go for it... you only live once... If you have any questions, feel free to ask me or Todd, as he has helped me alot, along the way.. Also, for Qjet parts, Cliff's High Performance(Cliff Ruggles on PY forum) is the best place to go... Carb is one of the most important parts of the whole deal, as is block prep, and head work. THese combos will easily run under the index, mine did, and i didnt spend a ton to do it... Get a set of 4.56's in there!


my car...11.44/116 1.506 60ft

[Todd1035]

Don't make to much of it. Stay away from a t400. better off with a 350. Stay away from ATI for a converter for this deal. PTC is a great company to deal with, and their stuff works.

Scott's deal is very different from a D Port 400. You are not going to turn that 7K like Scott does so you don't need exotic parts. Basic good parts and a little hard work will get you under the index.

Finally this deal is not cheap, but it doesn't have to break the bank. Buy smart parts, and listen to smart EXPERIENCED racers. Good luck with it if you move forward with your build.

[Todd1035]

Listen to Brent! He is a smart hardworking racer, with a great attitude! He also has one of the nicest cars out there. He goes rounds as well.

[ponyakr]

You can see a few pics of chrome bumper GTO's here.

https://www.google.com/search?q=1968...l%3B1024%3B768

And here is a link to PTC that Todd mentioned. looks their 8" is about a hundred bucks cheaper than the ATI I mentioned.

http://www.ptcrace.com/torque-converters-c-26.html

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Todd1035

Don't make to much of it. Stay away from a t400. better off with a 350. Stay away from ATI for a converter for this deal. PTC is a great company to deal with, and their stuff works.

Scott's deal is very different from a D Port 400. You are not going to turn that 7K like Scott does so you don't need exotic parts. Basic good parts and a little hard work will get you under the index.

Finally this deal is not cheap, but it doesn't have to break the bank. Buy smart parts, and listen to smart EXPERIENCED racers. Good luck with it if you move forward with your build.

TH200 is a better choice. Much less parasitic loss.