[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Paul is correct the big numbers were with a single plane, the RPM intake and 950 made 608 and that's how it's run in the car. At 4200lbs and driving to the track, zero work done and driving it home, it ran pretty well.

I'd say that's pretty legit. Nearly identical HP my 454 makes and nearly same weight car (4,108 lbs.) and it runs nearly the same at the track.

I find that power level a very streetable drive anywhere type of car that runs on 91 cat pee with no fuss. Race and have fun and don't even open the hood.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Be careful those Russians have a tendency to fraudulate those dyno sheets and time slips for the folks that have never done anything but the chit they dreamed up in their head.

Paul,
I heard there is someone who has never posted any dyno sheets that even a 5th grade could see is fake having problems with what is posted here. Guess that is what happens after looking at his fake dyno sheets for so long and starting to believe they are real.

Stan

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Paul,
I heard there is someone who has never posted any dyno sheets that even a 5th grade could see is fake having problems with what is posted here. Guess that is what happens after looking at his fake dyno sheets for so long and starting to believe they are real.

Stan

Hi Stan, A liars worst enemy is the truth. They just keep lying until they convince themselves myth is reality. I'm not sure what it's called when all of one's different personalities ramble on for an evening entertaining themselves but it sure is a good argument for better mental health programs.

[PAUL K]

I thought I'd bump this back up. I strongly believe we can make around 700 HP on pump gas using a 460'ish CID factory block, have good street manners.... and not have the thread locked!

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Wareagle

According to EMC they have be able to run on 91 Octane pump gas and as said in the Kasse 820 pump gas hp Pontiac V8 Article + that many of these engines go into street cars too

Maybe you could post the write up of that build, I do not have the skills...it is awesome!!!

Myself and 2 other fellow Pontiac enthusiasts were at the last IHRA drag race held in Tulsa, google says possibly 2009.
We spend a lot of time in the pits. A guy walks past us, one of my buddies noticed something on his shirt, Kaase Racing? Asked him if he was Jon Kaase, he said, yes, I am!!! He let us ask him questions until we were out of breath and questions. Really a good guy. Nothing was top secret.

THe only question I wondered about, I asked him about the EMC 508 engine (he advertised it here, using Jon Kaase as his user name). He said he thought....it went to the Pacific Northwest and he had not heard from or about it since selling it.......

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I thought I'd bump this back up. I strongly believe we can make around 700 HP on pump gas using a 460'ish CID factory block, have good street manners.... and not have the thread locked!

I'd love to give it a go with a cam that's in the low 240 duration (imo much more than that and it gets a little rowdy for wives it seems), matched with a really good topend I think it could be close. Of course it'd need a great short block also.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I'd love to give it a go with a cam that's in the low 240 duration (imo much more than that and it gets a little rowdy for wives it seems), matched with a really good topend I think it could be close. Of course it'd need a great short block also.

There is more power in a short block than most realize.

[tom s]

I think a 460ish could handle the 400 lobe lift 245-252 on a 114 and drive OK and handle PBs,not sure about AC.Tom

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by tom s

I think a 460ish could handle the 400 lobe lift 245-252 on a 114 and drive OK and handle PBs,not sure about AC.Tom

You think it would make a difference if one used a modern A/C compressor?

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I thought I'd bump this back up. I strongly believe we can make around 700 HP on pump gas using a 460'ish CID factory block, have good street manners.... and not have the thread locked!

I think it could be done Paul. I've seen it done with a 454 BBC using OEM heads no less and running the pump gas we had in Ohio at that time. Tony Bischoff built that engine and was used on the street exclusively. It even used a solid flat tappet cam.

It's probably doable with a Pontiac and I'd love to see a build like that. I'd like to see a really good set of heads so the camshaft doesn't have to be so wild to get there.

[Formulajones]

I don't see why you couldn't have A/C. The biggest obstacle with that is just being able to keep the combo cool, if you can do that you have it made

I've had AC on many 500hp and 600hp builds. I'd do it with a 700 build if I ever get around to the one sitting in the corner.

[tom s]

Paul,I don’t go near AC cars other than our modern cars,never owed a AC Classic car.My 63 Tempest does not even have PS-PB.Tom

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

There is more power in a short block than most realize.

Definitely agree, attention to details in the short block is very important. Match that with a really good topend and great things can happen

[Dragncar]

Remember this great build ? 700+ HP pump gas 434 that the kid drove to High School.
Not sure how rowdy the cam was. They were keeping the specs close to their vest since it was a Scott Brown cam. I think they sold it ans the basic specs were made public.

A 4.25 crank would tame to down a bit and still make 700 hp.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=775092

[blueghoast]

I think a good bottom end and a really good set of flowing heads
so as not to have to run a super huge camshaft.
I'm hoping to build a 489 ci factory block soon and hoping
for 700 + HP.

GT

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Remember this great build ? 700+ HP pump gas 434 that the kid drove to High School.
Not sure how rowdy the cam was. They were keeping the specs close to their vest since it was a Scott Brown cam. I think they sold it ans the basic specs were made public.

A 4.25 crank would tame to down a bit and still make 700 hp.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=775092

I have Jake's cam it is rowdy

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

You think it would make a difference if one used a modern A/C compressor?

I`ve got a 463 running road paver on 112 with 330 round port e heads. Got A/C with Sanden compressor. Not bad at all. Got an idle kick up solenoid. A little crappy when cold. Not bad at all once some heat in the motor.

[ChiefCrazyCanuck]

I think the goal is achievable., and as many have said it is very subjective as to the "streetability" for the combo.

As a frame of reference, I have a C6Z06 that makes over 650 at the tires on a tough dyno. This car is a HCI car with elevated compression on E-85. This same dyno has tested an RPM Motorsports Stage 3 (91 octane) setup with some of my work on it that made barely over 600 WHP. So I imagine the 91 octane engine at 427 CI makes close to the 690 being discussed here. As tested on an engine dyno.

This engine as well as mine have what I think are acceptable street manners. They drive well with manual transmissions, and IMO would be sweethearts in front of an auto with a good converter. My Z06 idles happily at 850 RPM, as does the RPM setup.

Now before you say apples to oranges, I think a proper 455 based shortblock with a very good set of heads and carefully selected cam would get you to the goal. An engine in this ballpark displacement would have at least a 30 cubic inch displacement advantage over the LS7 combo.

Might even get there with a hydraulic roller. I have an idea what the cam specs would be, but would be based on the head which would have the proper flow and CSA. Intake flow numbers for what they are worth would need to be in the 360-380 range. I also see 11-11.5:1 CR as required.

Would require a 1 7/8" minimum header, and a good exhaust system (3" dual with smooth bends)

People get hung up on worries about the cam being an issue, with respect to it being "too big". Too big is subjective, as long as it would tolerate being loaded down when the AC compressor kicks in. And if you have the right converter in it I don't see an issue.

A good modern engine management system would certainly assist, but not a deal breaker for the person with mechanical tuning skills.

I will tell you that you aren't making that power with more than 12" vacuum at 1000 RPM at 455-ish inches. But setup right it would not matter.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I have Jake's cam it is rowdy

Have you ran it yet ?

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by ChiefCrazyCanuck

...I will tell you that you aren't making that power with more than 12" vacuum at 1000 RPM at 455-ish inches...

I think that is a good definition for a street friendly engine: 12 or more inches vacuum at idle.

This would be enough to run a stock vacuum booster (single 11") set up properly.