[25stevem]

Friday night I had dinner with a few buddies as we try to do every few months during the winter and in the group was a new guy.
It turns out in the early 60s he was part of the engineering staff as a consultant in GMs EMD Divison that made Diesel locomotives.

In specific he was involved in the final changes made to the new engine for EMD locomotives that would come out in the 1966 model line.

This motor was called the 645 model.

It was available in 12,16 and 20 cylinder versions, and each cylinder was 645 CID.

He told us that the 20 cylinder version ( 12,900 cid ) was rated at 3600 hp and 21000 ft lbs @ 900 rpm!!!
This left me thinking how I could stuff one in my car.
I would not need a transmission with gears, but finding a set of rear gears for my late 10 bolt with a .002 ratio might be a stumbling block, lol!

[67Fbird]

hahaha....be like the old dirt cars...NO TRANNY direct drive, push start...but I think you would need a 18 wheeler and ALOT of traction to turn over 12,900 CID...unless you used a bleed-off valve...(think briggs n stratton..)

[25stevem]

I also think that since these engines tip the scales at about 24,000 lbs my cars suspension would be doomed.

[66sprint6]

Was that engine directly driving the train, or spinning a genset for a final electric drive? Either way, that's a lot of mass spinning at 900rpm.
I performed some work for our local electric utility and the guy came in to do the monthly back-up genny test. I've never seen engines so large for these generators. Made a hell of a racket when they were running.

[will slow gto]

There is a very cool article that Rich Ceppos wrote for Car and Driver in the 90s about EMD. He toured the plant near Willow Springs, IL and got to test drive its latest locomotive which I think was the SD60 at that time (yes, I’m also into trains). I’ll see if I can dig it out and post it here.

[25stevem]

The SD60 model you mention was the first to use the new EMD 710 engine which allow them to get 3800 hp @ 900 rpm.

I could not find the torque output rating for this larger engine however.

The engines in 99.8 percent of Diesel locomotives directly drive a DC generator or a Alternator, once the current output levels got you high they could not stop a DC generator from arcing over and had to go to a Alternator.

The voltage from either was sent to electric motors that powered the axles.

There was a few hydro trans Diesel locomotives, but these where powered by smaller CID engines that ran at a much higher rpm then 900.

[george kujanski]

torque = (HP x 5252)/RPM so that equals 22,175 lb-ft of torque at 900 RPM.

I have an engine manual for the 645, courtesy of my college buddy who spent his career at EMD. One interesting data point is the torque spec on the crab bolts (that hold the cylinders down to the fabricated block) is 1600 ft-lbs... a very long torque wrench is required! I also believe the oil quantity is 36 gallons IIRC.

[OG68]

I worked on locomotives for Amtrak and the Southern Pacific. Even as an electrician I was very familiar with the 645 and all its 12, 16, 20 cylinder, turbo and non turbo variants. IIRC the 645 was introduced in 1966 with a new alternator that produced AC power internally rectified to DC, providing power to the traction motors.

Both Freight and Passenger locomotives used the same basic engine. Most freight locomotives in the mountain west, were limited to 72 mph, while passenger locomotives would operate between 90-100 mph. Freight required more pulling power for 100+ cars , passenger locomotives usually had between 5-15 coaches and high speed was the priority.
The gearing was changed in the traction motors. The motor shaft carried the piñon, the axle shaft had the ring or 'Bull' gear.

[25stevem]

What’s a mire 1172 ft lbs when you already have 21,000 lol!

Connecting rod to piston pin 450 lb

Cylinder head stud nut 240 lb

Main bearing bolts 750 lb

Crab nut 1800 lb you need another locomotive to pull that bar!!

[locomotivebreath]

Here’s an upper cylinder / head assembly on a 16 cylinder GE c CW40-8 that grenaded itself last year in Dayton ohio

[locomotivebreath]

Short clip

[locomotivebreath]

Ehhh clip didn’t download

[Sirrotica]

When I graduated from high school I got a job working at the GE locomotive plant in Erie PA, my hometown. I worked in the locomotive chassis bay, ran a burning machine, drove forklift in the foundry, and my last job was pulling orders in the parts warehouse.

GE would take old locomotives in trade, pirate parts off of them, and sell the rest for scrap. The plant was huge, 350 acres, probably 30 huge buildings used to build parts and construct the locomotive on that site. They have their own test track for shake down runs, and testing.

Each of the huge diesel engines is run in a test cell before being installed in chassis.

The place was like a huge manufacturing facility, and a locomotive dealership. Later on working in GM dealerships, I could see the parallels between the two business models. At that time they had one competitor GM also had a locomotive plant, which has since been sold off. The US govt. wanted to keep 2 locomotive plants during the cold war so if one was hit in an attack, there would still be another one to produce locomotives.

I started working there when I was 17 YO and worked there for about a year and a half. The size of everything was huge, impressive for a young motorhead. I used to have a locomotive piston I threw over the fence, and after work I picked it up, and took it home. I left it at a girlfriends apartment, and lost it when we broke up..........

[george kujanski]

For those not aware, EMD locomotives traditionally were 2strokers. They were highly developed over the years and were very efficient reliable locomotives.

George

[Mr Anonymous]

I'd want to work on the engines too, just so I could say "Nice Jugs!" without any repercussions

[Cliff R]

Correct the EMD's were two-stroke diesel engines and powered a generator to send power to a DC electric motor for propulsion.

I had two of them on a ship I was the EO on back the late 1980's. Going from memory the ones we used were 750rpm's and both turbo and supercharged. They had to be supercharged as they are no intake valves so a pressurized air box is REQUIRED for cylinder filling when the pistons move down low enough to uncover the intake holes in the bottom of the cylinders. They had man-hole covers on them for access to the internals and two connecting rods shared the same journal with one rod inside the other spinning on the same plane so the cylinders were directly across from each other. Overhead cams operated the exhaust valves which opened each time the pistons came to the top of the bores.

I can't remember the exact number of cylinders or model (567 or 645?) but they were the size of a delivery van and really loud in operation requiring double hearing protection if you were making rounds and had to be near them running at full speed. I was there 3 years and actually transported the ship using them from Norfolk Va to Astoria Oregon (took a couple of months) to it's new home in 1989, then went on to finish my career as a LE specialist and investigator, retiring in 2003 and starting the business that I just retired back in January.........

[locomotivebreath]

These screens are random off of some GE’s . The one with the horsepower readout is 4600hp high adhesion model , I think the others are an evolution series DC current

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

For those not aware, EMD locomotives traditionally were 2strokers. They were highly developed over the years and were very efficient reliable locomotives.

George

Yep, the "big brothers" of the 71, 92 and 149 series Detroits I used to machine. These engines started life powering Gato class subs in WW2.