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Old 09-04-2022, 09:03 PM
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Default 1970 455 4 speed gto

Stumbled into what appears to be Canadian built owner claims 455 4 speed gto metallic green with tan interior.
Original motor Gone 557, 400, auto in car now. Muncie In the trunk appears to be m20-21 w no lines on I put shaft. I did not vin match it
Been sitting I’m guessing 25 yrs although most likely not all in this spot.

I have vin and most likely
Will send for phs but owner said make an offer but it’s not for sale. It’s rough. I could
See 25-30 doing it myself and still
Not having original motor. Is a Canadian built
One much different than an USA built
One? No hood tach no Ralley guages no air but it sure was tantalizing lol
Thanks for input

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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed
1964 540 gto
1971 tempest t-37
1996 6.o ls S-10
1972 Maverick under slow construction
  #2  
Old 09-05-2022, 12:26 AM
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no lines
if original
should/could be M-22
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2022, 06:39 AM
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I am 90% sure it was a course spline input shaft. Which if original would have been behind. 400. It’s def a 242 car. I have a packet from a 1970 judge phs, I will go over to search for Any clues before I pay for another phs this week for it

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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed
1964 540 gto
1971 tempest t-37
1996 6.o ls S-10
1972 Maverick under slow construction
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Old 09-05-2022, 07:32 AM
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12 bolt rear end?
(455 engine had 12 bolt I believe)



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  #5  
Old 09-05-2022, 07:59 AM
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I did not look at rear but i think you are correct. As I also think it should have been an m22, it def had small
Output shaft.
It’s about 3 hours from me. I’m going to do some research and talk to the gentleman a few times
He has a lot of stuff. Supposedly there’s another 70 on a different piece of property and there is a 68 gto convertible that was unviewable with the parts stacked on it and around it. Sad but beautiful at the same
Time

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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed
1964 540 gto
1971 tempest t-37
1996 6.o ls S-10
1972 Maverick under slow construction
  #6  
Old 09-06-2022, 07:16 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Should not have an M22. The only way that could happen fromthe dactory is if the car was a Pontiac Engineering build & the engineers were testing with a soon to be released '71 455 HO engine. That would be on a Pontiac plant build, so no go down that rabbit hole on an Oshawa build.

'70 455 GTO's when optioned with a 4speed came with M21's. There was some confusion over the years as to why a different coded Muncie was used behind the '70 455 GTO's. That simply came down to different tooth count speedo drive gear on the main shaft for the M21 when installed ahead of 3.31's & 3.55's. That is versus the "6 toother" speedo drive ger used in the original M21's in front of 3.90 & 4.33 '70 performance Pontiac A-body's.

Have prev mentioned on this site, there is a "no groove" 26 spline M21 input shaft that can be confused with a fine spline M22 input shaft. From the dozens of Muncies I've had in here, the M21 input shaft is a later replacement piece from the late '70's-80's. Have had two of these no cut M21 fine spline input shafts; & curently have a '72 M21 in the rack so equipped.

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Old 09-07-2022, 02:32 AM
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Default Muncie

sorry

oph
"Have prev mentioned on this site, there is a "no groove" 26 spline M21 input shaft that can be confused with a fine spline M22 input shaft. From the dozens of Muncies I've had in here, the M21 input shaft is a later replacement piece from the late '70's-80's. Have had two of these no cut M21 fine spline input shafts; & curently have a '72 M21 in the rack so equipped."

I thought we were talkin 70 ?? 10/27 spline ,,,,, ?? no groove input
bein' the car is a 70

nice find mistic missle .....
we just picked up a 70 GTO built at the Oshawa plant and its RUFFFF also
fairly low production up there ,,,,

Scott
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Last edited by Scott Thelander; 09-07-2022 at 02:39 AM.
  #8  
Old 09-07-2022, 06:57 AM
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I am 90% SURE IT WAS A COURSE SPLINE SMALL OUTPUT MUNCIE THATS AS FAR AS I LOOKED BESIDES DETERMINING WHICH MOTOR WAS IN IT. oWNER WAS SURE IT WAS A YJ 455 0R 428 WHICH OBVIOULSY WOULD HAVE EFFECTED A cash offer, vs a yj 400. . Im waiting on phs now. I am sure its a 242 pepper green gto. that is all lol

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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed
1964 540 gto
1971 tempest t-37
1996 6.o ls S-10
1972 Maverick under slow construction
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Old 09-07-2022, 08:06 AM
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Sounds like a cool project with a cool color combo, and a fun adventure with the other cars being there and possibly some stashed parts.
I say go check it out you may be into something good.

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Old 09-08-2022, 07:57 AM
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Sounds alot like my car,,,,,,70 gto,,, WA 455 4 speed M21,,,3.31 posi 12 bolt,,,mint turqoise with saddle interior built in Oshawa. Sent from there to a dealership in Maine. Curious to see what the one youre looking at is like. My trans is the 10 spline and small output shaft.
.

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72 lemans,455 e-head, UD 255/263 solid flat,3.73 gears,,,10" 4400 converter,, 6.68 at 101.8 mph,,1.44 60 ft.2007
(cam 271/278 roller)9"CC.4.11gear 6.41 at 106.32 mph 1.42 60 ft.(2009) SOLD,SOLD
1970 GTO 455 4 speed #matching,, 3.31 posi.Stock manifolds. # 64 heads.A factory mint tuquoise ,69' judge stripe car. 8.64 @ 87.3 mph on slippery street tires.Bad 2.25 60ft.Owned since 86'

Last edited by scott70; 09-08-2022 at 08:06 AM.
  #11  
Old 09-08-2022, 08:52 AM
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what month was yours built Scott? this is a september 69 build

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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed
1964 540 gto
1971 tempest t-37
1996 6.o ls S-10
1972 Maverick under slow construction
  #12  
Old 09-08-2022, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmissle View Post
what month was yours built Scott? this is a september 69 build
1st week of january.

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72 lemans,455 e-head, UD 255/263 solid flat,3.73 gears,,,10" 4400 converter,, 6.68 at 101.8 mph,,1.44 60 ft.2007
(cam 271/278 roller)9"CC.4.11gear 6.41 at 106.32 mph 1.42 60 ft.(2009) SOLD,SOLD
1970 GTO 455 4 speed #matching,, 3.31 posi.Stock manifolds. # 64 heads.A factory mint tuquoise ,69' judge stripe car. 8.64 @ 87.3 mph on slippery street tires.Bad 2.25 60ft.Owned since 86'
  #13  
Old 09-10-2022, 08:32 AM
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Phs is in and it is not a 455 car
It is a standard wt400 m21 355 car
Verdoro green and sandal
Interior
I’ll
Post pic of build sheet later.

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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed
1964 540 gto
1971 tempest t-37
1996 6.o ls S-10
1972 Maverick under slow construction
  #14  
Old 09-10-2022, 09:35 AM
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DavesGTO DavesGTO is offline
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WT 3:55 should be m20, 3:90 and 4:33 got m21 IIRC


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  #15  
Old 09-11-2022, 01:38 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmissle View Post
Phs is in and it is not a 455 car
It is a standard wt400 m21 355 car
Verdoro green and sandal
Interior
Ill
Post pic of build sheet later.
The PHS confirmation probably saved you a lot of $$$$.

one thing I always look at on purported factory '70 & 71 "455" Pontiac A-body's is the two letter frame code back on the side of the left frame rail.

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  #16  
Old 09-12-2022, 07:36 AM
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agree there def is a big price difference, I still havent made an offer yet. But just incase it was a real 455 car or a judge or who knows it was worth the $95 even if i dont buy it. Im trying to liquidate some funds so i can make a serious offer, but i will not overextend for a base gto. even though it does call to me lol. It has a bobcat type stripe on the hood. it will be a good looking car for someone if the owner is willing to let it go. it is an m2o car according to the sheet, sorry. I would have thought the input shaft would have had some rings on it however?
here is phs, interesting they list it as an october car but the vin is listed as a september on the door jamb. maybe bodies were running ahead of time during that production run.
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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed
1964 540 gto
1971 tempest t-37
1996 6.o ls S-10
1972 Maverick under slow construction
  #17  
Old 09-12-2022, 08:51 AM
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Pic
Also, i cant be the only one that knows of this car. it is fairly visible in my opinion. if you know of it please be discrete as i would still like the opportunity to save it.
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1969 carousel red firebird 455, richmond 5 speed
1964 540 gto
1971 tempest t-37
1996 6.o ls S-10
1972 Maverick under slow construction

Last edited by mysticmissle; 09-12-2022 at 08:59 AM.
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