#481  
Old 05-23-2022, 07:43 PM
GTO-relic GTO-relic is offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNfNE4Xg6cM

this is a damned good recommendation considering this video was made last year,
and that Demon carb is an original BG out of production for 10+ years ago.
that's an original BG Demon, not a Holley corporate takeover Demon

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  #482  
Old 05-23-2022, 10:18 PM
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From the speed-talk thread.

Simply stated, the guys are spot on, a 950 (from Holley) is a 750 HP series (shaped entry) body with a 850 base.

A 1000+ is an 850 with HP (shaped entry) body.

I run a 1000+ vacuum secondary HP on my 489 cid motor (all street, 1000 rpm idle, and cruises at 1600 rpm in 5th gear on the highway), and I actually swapped an 850 billet base from BG after an unfortunate bench accident :roll: It is dimensionally the same and runs very well

I also ran mine on my car when it was 434 cid as well, I consider it a very good match for street/strip 400+ inch motor, I actually got 13 mpg on a 5 hr trip with a 4 speed, 3.70's, that carb, and the 434 FE with a 250@.050 solid flat tappet and a single plane intake from Vegas to Bishop CA and back

I got a deal on the vac sec, or I probably would have went double pumper though. Holley seems to agree because they dont make this carb anymore LOL however, you can buy an 850 vac sec with a shaped air horn from BG or QFT.

Apparently GTO-relic, you do not understand the simple advertising ploy Holley used
in the later years, (not in the 70s and mid 80s), The Holley numbers were accurate:
950 cfm and 1000 cfm IF YOU USED THE TEST PRESSURE OF 28" OF WATER TEST PRESSURE. A reminder, for 50 years Holley used 20.4" of water as the standard test pressure. But my buddy Smokey said in magazine articles that 28" of water test pressure "air flow" matched well with the HP of the engines on the dyno.

Do the math and you will see the 750/780/850 carbs rated at 20.4" of water now will show 950 & 1000 cfm at the higher water test pressure 28".

So they did not lie, they just used Smoky's printed words to inflate the carb cfm numbers.

So you only know parts of the story, GTO-relic.

If Barry Grant stayed with the 20.4 test pressure number and he improved the flow of the carb, then he would be doing the job right vs playing games with advertising.

So do some more research on the subject vs posting info that was only 1/2 correct.

Tom V.

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  #483  
Old 05-24-2022, 08:10 AM
GTO-relic GTO-relic is offline
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the problem with Holley carbs, and all carbs in general, is the fixed metering orifices, and having to disassemble, remove jets, rods, springs to adjust them.
the entire carb should be adjustable with needles like the idle mixture screws.
imagine a Holley carb with 6 needle screws per block.
2 for idle mixture, 2 for idle jet, 2 for main jet- for starters
you could also add adjustment screws for idle, main air bleeds, and power valve channel restriction
then it would be truly analog, infinitely adjustable fuel/air
one good thing about the Qjet and Carter designs was, being able to at least change some of the metering rods, hangers from the top, without taking the carb apart
these things CAN be done. the new Edelbrock carb is impressive, but too many jets ! I'm swimming in boxes of jet kits the way it is, for air bleeds, main jets, power valve, idle jets.
needle jet screws would do the trick, one each for at least main jet, idle jet, and mixture.
lawnmower, snowblower, chain saw small engines have had adjustable main jets forever.
why not on carbs ? the Percy's started out as a good idea, then got cheap made of plastic, now they crack and leak in no time.
the aftermarket just won't step up over this stupid money that is becoming more worthless by the day anyway.
the challenge is there...make a fully adjustable carburetor, without spilling gas, changing jets all day.
even a power valve piston spring could be adjustable with a screw by compressing or expanding it.
the ME Wagner PCV valve does it with a small spring, why can't the carburetor mfrs. do it.

  #484  
Old 05-24-2022, 08:18 AM
GTO-relic GTO-relic is offline
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Tom, I'm thankful for this thread, and the Ford historical info on the GT40 carbs.
I'm a GT40 fanatic, but I'll never get beyond building the vintage plastic Revell models cuz of the entrance fee.
that's what originally pulled this thread up on my radar. a 427 FE Ford with Holleys that beat Ferraris is awesome cool in my book.
I mean no disrespect or insult. the fact is I've worked on hundreds of Holley carbs and they all had the same problems,
which is why back in the 1980-90's we'd buy junkyard $10 Qjet 800 cores, rebuild them with a $20 kit, and end up with a better street carb than most Holleys, for $30 investment.
I'd look at those Holleys and just wonder, why do they have such a cool design, then have such carelessly rich fuel metering settings, and schit QC.
just wanted to set the record straight on Barry Grant, having spoken to him on the phone 25 years ago,
and having a carb built by him, it's a damned shame he went out of business.
he really did not inflate cfm numbers- he wet flowed them, adjusted the venturis to many non-stock sizes up and down- and the scalloped entry, and improved smoother castings added significant flow. He basically bored out all the carb venturis .020"-.030" over a stock Holley size to begin with, it's common sense they'd flow a little more. It really was just very well thought out, sound engineering.


Last edited by GTO-relic; 05-24-2022 at 08:28 AM.
  #485  
Old 05-24-2022, 09:48 AM
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1) First off, I agree that the Ford GTs in the 1966-1969 period were great engines for their time frame. A really solid 425/475 HP that would run for 48 hours on the dyno and 24 hours at Le Mans. The guy who hired me into Ford Engineering: Homer Perry ran the actual race program for those 4 years and the NASCAR/Indy programs after that.

Go into Mr Shelby's last 4 videos and watch them on the web. The first two Shelby videos talk about Shelby as a racer, and as a "western" Team Manager. The third Video SPECIFICALLY mentions my boss (Mr Homer Perry), who Shelby reported to during the Le Mans racing effort. The Holman Moody team also reported to Mr Perry.

He mentions Mr Perry was "apolitical" which means he did not take sides on politics.
Not like others in the 60s and even today in the 2020s. He just did the job.

The time frame you speak of after Holley aftermarket went south is all true. The time frame during the Le Mans days were the initial Holley Carb "Race Days", first with the small blocks, then with the 427 engines and finally with the 427 dual quad engines.

Richard Harroun, did the carbs.

Richard's dad, (Ray Harroun), won a total of 8 races at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the second-most of any driver in the 100-year history of the track (the only driver with more victories at IMS is Johnny Aitken, with 15 wins in 1909–1916).

So I know the history, you know the later history of Holley, when the Holley Family Children sold off the business and things went down hill in the south.

I am not disagreeing with you, I am adding information.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...dies/86885322/

Mr Perry's obit

He was a friend of Caroll Shelby, A.J. Foyt and Mario Andretti.

He was a driving force behind Ford Motor Company’s triumphant victories in 1966 and 1967 at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in France when the Ford GT40s swept the sports car racing world.

But to his granddaughter Giavanna Palazzolo, he was simply “my grandpa — my hero.”

Former Ford Racing program manager Homer L. Perry died June 21 at 96 years of age in Novi, leaving behind a loving family and a proud racing legacy.

My Boss

Tom Vaught


Last edited by Tom Vaught; 05-24-2022 at 09:56 AM.
  #486  
Old 05-24-2022, 10:06 AM
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Another obit and some nice pictures. The picture shows where Bruce McLaren screwed Ken Miles out of the Le Mans win
Ken Miles deserved. All 3 cars were supposed to cross at the same time, McLaren shot ahead at the last few feet.

https://fordauthority.com/2016/07/fo...ry-dies-at-96/

Homer Perry was THE MAN in 1966-1967. Nice article by Mose Nowland who I worked with several times.
Mose was the longest serving employee in Ford's employment history. Mose worked in the Ford Experimental Garage in the 1960s.

Tom V.

2016 Ford Win. Ford ECOBOOST with Turbos, ahead by a full lap (one minute lead) at the end).

https://fordauthority.com/2016/06/no...pro-class-win/

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Last edited by Tom Vaught; 05-24-2022 at 10:17 AM.
  #487  
Old 05-24-2022, 11:01 AM
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Shelby graduated a couple of years earlier than my Dad from the same high school in Dallas.

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  #488  
Old 05-24-2022, 11:10 AM
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Great thread and a lot of useful information.

Nice of GTO-relic to take the time to input the BG stuff.

Personally I never had luck with most of the original BG carbs. We would usually go faster with a well tuned Holley.

While I agree Holley had some QC issues, from my first hand experience BG's was a lot worse. I recall a customer purchasing a "top shelf" 1000'ish cfm annular booster carb from BG. He was so proud to show me the carburetor which looked fantastic. I stuck my pinky finger in the booster to size it and I recall pushing a shaved ring of metal from the bottom of my pinky finger and pulling it off to hand to the owner. He wasn't very happy, nor was the guy that answered to phone at BG the following Monday.

I was told by a big name professional carburetor builder that the original lawsuit Holley had against BG and won had to do with the air entry angle that Holley owned the rights to and BG had to change. He claimed this was the reason out Holley carbs were faster than the BG's. He also stated the all of the fast big name cars that had BG stickers on them were running Holley main bodies with BG float bowls.... I have no idea if this information is correct but it seemed plausible at the time.

By the way the BG 1000ish cfm carburetor was replaced by a professionally built 1000 cfm Holley after the owner tested my big Holley back to back at the track and the Holley was faster.

I do think BG had a great program, meant well and I wish he was still in operation.

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  #489  
Old 05-24-2022, 11:56 AM
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Barry Grant was a very innovative Carb Guy.
Much like Marty Brown and Marvin Benoit who started Quick Fuel carbs after the chit hit the fan down south.

Other sharp Carb Guys: Chuck Gulledge, John Reed, Mr Braswell,Sr. (a Pontiac Racer), David Braswell, (Braswell carbs) and C&S Specialities (candsspecialties). C & S builds aerosol carburetors, Roger Huddleston is the owner/president they are out of St.Louis area. Very good carburetors.

Tom V.

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