[zeebo]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

I've restored lots of cars for lots of people. Probably built some you would not believe. My advise is start with the most rust-free example you can afford. I would take a dented, incomplete rust-fee car any day over a complete rust bucket.

i cant agree more or faster to that statement. living in the rust belt my entire life and not always having a ton of $, but still loving cars, i used to buy fixer-uppers from michigan..never again! now those cars are parts cars, relegated to outside storage. i have seen rust free cars for the same price (minus shipping costs) as folks want for rusted bondoed cars here in michigan. after i got a home computer, and got on the web, one is able to locate cars and parts that were previously unattainable..! for just a little bit more, and the cost of having the vehicle transported, it is sooooo worth it to buy the best bodied car you can afford--and if you cant afford it, save your $ until you can!

[428PHIL]

Paid 7K for my 66 LeMans which was in great condition. Then I went nuts and did a complete body off resto. I took the car apart and gave the body shop the shell. They charged 10K to do the body off. Engine was shot, had Paul Spotts build me a 450hp 455, another 10K. Repalced every nut and bolt everything new. Final total cost was over 45K. If I had to do it over I would have left it alone, and bought one already one done. Think I would have saved a ton, plus no grief dealing with people. (Not taking about Spotts he was great to deal with)

[Keith Vrabec]

Paying at least as much for the wife's new kitchen.......

Can't drive a kitchen...can eat in a car

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by Keith Vrabec

Paying at least as much for the wife's new kitchen.......

Can't drive a kitchen...can eat in a car

For me, it's not so much the kitchen - it's all the "while we're doing the kitchen, we might as well do this too" stuff that gets me.

[71GP76TA]

Its hard to put a price on good food...

[geeteeohguy]

Chris, It's Bill's car....and used to have a turquoise interior and a TH400. It's now a parchment interior with a 4 speed.

[Keith Vrabec]

Its hard to put a price on good food...



Not when your wife doesn't cook....Just pay the bill

[GTO JOHN]

The better buy is the done car. However most of the hobbyists do not have the cash to purchase a done car up front. Many tend to fund the project as they go along.

Best bet is to find a body shop that is as reasonable and reputable as possible. Good advise from body shop owners above. Save money being the disassembler and assembler and parts finder/restorer.

My guy just does the body and paint that I cannot do. Whatever you don't have to farm out will save you money.

It is possible to do a nice #2 driver with even a frame off for under $30k including parts and labor. You just need to manage the details.

[Alvin]

A local "Classic Car" shop's trick, as told by a key man, is to give an average quote based on general information, get your vehicle, strip it: Send you their 1st Draw for $$$ and let it sit for four months.. This is the standard operating procedure.

The up front presentation is seemingly totally professional with illustrations, spreadsheet examples of previous builds, website, etc...

It (your vehicle) will continue to sit until you bug the heck out of them for several more months, send much more cash...and your initial $35,000 "estimated easy" rebuild becomes a $85 to over $100k RestoMod...if you swallow the hooks.

Many of these turn out fine, however, it never ceases to amaze how poor a $30,000 plus paint job can look in the sunlight due to poor sanding and prep by the same shop...probably due to the customer happy to accept and release their pride & joy from "body shop jail."

Same $100k + cars have sold locally and nationally at auctions for pennies on the dollar.

Nothing newsworthy to most here.

Trouble w "finished cars" is unless you know the builders, history, and condition of the vehicle; you may end up with a total Bondo Bucket, or worse...even with a proper investigation prior to purchase...national magazine write ups, etc.

[400 4spd.]

More good points above about doing some disassembly or assembly yourself. I have no problem with a customer removing the engine, interior, glass, etc. Or we can do all of it.
Cars I have in the shop that owners took apart and plan to finish assembly:
'68 Mustang coupe
'68 Mustang 2+2
'68 Charger
'71 440 Six-Pack 'Cuda
These cars will leave with at least trunk, doors, fenders and hoods bolted on and adjusted to fit.

Cars I am doing 100%
'57 Chevy Sedan
'64 Plymouth Hemi
'70 Challenger 340

What you do not want to do is totally disassemble the body!
Leave the trunk lid, doors and front end on. Bumpers too. Anyone who knows what they are doing will want to see the fit of each panel while on the car. If I get in a car that has the sheet metal off, I have to assemble all of it again to find fit problems. I also need all of the trim on hand for test fitting.
If a car comes in assembled, nothing comes off until I can make all panels fit. Ask your shop what the process is.
Case in point. Recently another PY member brought his painted body and front end to me for assembling. The car had been in a shop in another town for a couple of years. It has new rockers, floors and quarters, but the shop never fitted the fenders.
We spent 16 hours getting them acceptable. Perfect would mean reshaping and painting from the doors forward, not something the owner wants to do.
Another recent case. Our 'Cuda customer took his apart years ago. When he brought it to us three weeks ago, we put the old front end together. Nothing would fit square, so I started looking over the front frame rails. I found a small kink in both. We pulled it onto the frame machine and clamped it down, started taking measurements. Both rails were knocked to the right about 1/2" and high. After pulling it back and some hammering on the rails, the parts fit again. I also bolted the trunk lid back on. Both rear corners sloped up, so that was corrected before any bodywork.
These are not things anyone wants to discover after a car is painted.
Point being this. You can save lots of money doing work yourself. Just don't cost yourself money by doing too much.

BTW, I do Pontiacs too!

[70ram4]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

More good points above about doing some disassembly or assembly yourself. I have no problem with a customer removing the engine, interior, glass, etc. Or we can do all of it.
Cars I have in the shop that owners took apart and plan to finish assembly:
'68 Mustang coupe
'68 Mustang 2+2
'68 Charger
'71 440 Six-Pack 'Cuda
These cars will leave with at least trunk, doors, fenders and hoods bolted on and adjusted to fit.

Cars I am doing 100%
'57 Chevy Sedan
'64 Plymouth Hemi
'70 Challenger 340

What you do not want to do is totally disassemble the body!
Leave the trunk lid, doors and front end on. Bumpers too. Anyone who knows what they are doing will want to see the fit of each panel while on the car. If I get in a car that has the sheet metal off, I have to assemble all of it again to find fit problems. I also need all of the trim on hand for test fitting.
If a car comes in assembled, nothing comes off until I can make all panels fit. Ask your shop what the process is.
Case in point. Recently another PY member brought his painted body and front end to me for assembling. The car had been in a shop in another town for a couple of years. It has new rockers, floors and quarters, but the shop never fitted the fenders.
We spent 16 hours getting them acceptable. Perfect would mean reshaping and painting from the doors forward, not something the owner wants to do.
Another recent case. Our 'Cuda customer took his apart years ago. When he brought it to us three weeks ago, we put the old front end together. Nothing would fit square, so I started looking over the front frame rails. I found a small kink in both. We pulled it onto the frame machine and clamped it down, started taking measurements. Both rails were knocked to the right about 1/2" and high. After pulling it back and some hammering on the rails, the parts fit again. I also bolted the trunk lid back on. Both rear corners sloped up, so that was corrected before any bodywork.
These are not things anyone wants to discover after a car is painted.
Point being this. You can save lots of money doing work yourself. Just don't cost yourself money by doing too much.

BTW, I do Pontiacs too!

Never thought of this good point, thanks.

[400 4spd.]

Alvin, I really like the '57 150 sedan. Nice wheels and stance. What's the story on that one?

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

Alvin, I really like the '57 150 sedan. Nice wheels and stance. What's the story on that one?

Not sure on that one specifically, but, one just like it, I was told by the new owner a yr after purchase what he'd purchased, after I asked him - Generally here's what he told me:

"We brought 2 to sell and bought 3. We were really busy at the event and had to deal w business, etc. as well. We bought one for $71,000, it was in magazines, featured articles, national event star, etc. It had won national awards. So, we didn't go over it as we normally would have."

At this point, he pulls out smartphone and pulls up a photos of a '57 150 sedan body shell stripped to bare metal on rotisserie in one of his shops, and continues:

"This car was sculpted by real artists!" What? I ask.

"This body appeared so smooth, straight, etc...it was shocking of the amount of bondo used to 'sculpt' this car!"

"I had all of my guys there before we bought it, and none of us ever thought to lay a magnet on it to check it out, or go over it per usual due to its' 'pedigreed' presentation." "It looked perfect in every way under the bright lights as we gave it several look overs prior to purchase."

"In fact, front floor boards - no metal, instead there was cardboard and heavy tar sandwich sculpted, then primed, sanded, and show car quality painted over..." "Sculpted!"

"In fact, the body wasn't even bolted to the frame!" "Even though the car was featured in magazine step, by step, rebuild; driven onto show and action locations, it was discovered to have all of these and more issues after we owned it."

"So, I've already put another $30k into it to get the bare body as you see it here; nothing fit, no panels except roof worth saving, might as well go all the way and put another $100 or two into it to make it right."

"We've brought in our legal team, and I've decided it is faster and cheaper to fix it and move on." "I don't have time to waste legally...but the sellers reps and seller have been put on notice as to the misrepresentation."

"Of all of the car deals, projects, parts, etc. I've been involved with, I'd never would have expected to been fooled like I (we were) was with this one!" "Live and learn!"

Ouch! This from an winning ISCA "fleet" owner. Buyer beware.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

Just don't cost yourself money by doing too much.

Back in high school, I stopped by a friend's house to find him sanding all the paint off his car in preparation for taking it into the paint shop. Unfortunately, he used really rough wood sandpaper, so the shop had to do all that over.