[Gach]

I thought it would be interesting, to see how brand X compears to what's out there for the Pontiac guy, wanting to build a good street motor. Just compearing this deal to and IA, from Butler who is now selling crate motor's. First off, he could not offer anying making that much hp, on pump gas, with out running the bottle, second take a guess at what the price tag was to build and IA crate motor, I can tell you it's double this price, and it's not a pump gas motor.How do they build these motor's for such a good price. I mean just look at the stuff that's in this motor for the price, this thing is complete from carb to pan for $14,995.00.

With A 632 Cubic Inch Displacement And An Incredible 765 Foot Pounds of Torque,
Bill Mitchell's "Monster Merlin" Is Absolutely The Most Potent Street Engine You Can Buy See the Dyno Video! They say there's no substitute for cubic inches. And we've proven the wisdom of that statement by offering this humongous 632 c.i.d. powerplant designed specifically for the street. It's available in a 725 horsepower rating with cast iron heads, and with aluminum heads
sporting CNC-machined combustion chambers added to the mix, the dyno will hit 740 horses and a stump-pulling 765 foot pounds of torque. The 725-740+ HP ratings on pump gas are partially due to the 10:1 compression JE forged aluminum pistons. Naturally, you'll want to run high octane gasoline. Another word of caution. With 750 foot-pounds of torque on call, your chassis and driveline components must be up to the task. Don't even think about bolting a MONSTER MERLIN to a stock GM 700-R4 transmission, or using some wimpy rear end and axle setup. We're talking about serious earth-rotating torque here However, when you've got the fuel and
chassis situation under control, you will find this engine to provide an exceptional level of performance. A properly set up car should be able to turn 10s in the quarter mile in full street trim. What's more, the MONSTER MERLIN can be a real "sleeper." Not too many observers will suspect there's 632 cubic inches of pure torque hiding under the hood!

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Block: Merlin II cast iron with 4-bolt mains
Cylinder heads: Merlin Rectangular Port (iron or aluminum) Crankshaft: Callies 4340 forged steel (4.750" stroke) Pistons: Wiseco/JE/SRP 4.600" forged alum. (10:1 comp.)Connecting rods: Eagle 4340 forged 6.700" rod Camshaft: Comp Cams roller cam/Crower roller lifters Intake manifold: Merlin aluminum 360° single plane Carburetor: Modified 870 cfm Holley 4-barrel Valves: Manley Severe Duty® stainless steel Timing Chain: Manley True Roller Lubrication: Stef's oil pump and aluminum pan Piston Rings: Speed-Pro ring set Engine Bearings: Clevite
Ignition: HEI distributor, 8mm spark plug wire Valvetrain: Harland Sharp roller rockers, Manley 4130 pushrods Balance: Internally balanced, ATI balancer Assembly Components: Fel-Pro, ARP and Manley Accessories: Bill Mitchell CNC logo aluminum valve covers $14,995.00

[Gach]

I thought it would be interesting, to see how brand X compears to what's out there for the Pontiac guy, wanting to build a good street motor. Just compearing this deal to and IA, from Butler who is now selling crate motor's. First off, he could not offer anying making that much hp, on pump gas, with out running the bottle, second take a guess at what the price tag was to build and IA crate motor, I can tell you it's double this price, and it's not a pump gas motor.How do they build these motor's for such a good price. I mean just look at the stuff that's in this motor for the price, this thing is complete from carb to pan for $14,995.00.

With A 632 Cubic Inch Displacement And An Incredible 765 Foot Pounds of Torque,
Bill Mitchell's "Monster Merlin" Is Absolutely The Most Potent Street Engine You Can Buy See the Dyno Video! They say there's no substitute for cubic inches. And we've proven the wisdom of that statement by offering this humongous 632 c.i.d. powerplant designed specifically for the street. It's available in a 725 horsepower rating with cast iron heads, and with aluminum heads
sporting CNC-machined combustion chambers added to the mix, the dyno will hit 740 horses and a stump-pulling 765 foot pounds of torque. The 725-740+ HP ratings on pump gas are partially due to the 10:1 compression JE forged aluminum pistons. Naturally, you'll want to run high octane gasoline. Another word of caution. With 750 foot-pounds of torque on call, your chassis and driveline components must be up to the task. Don't even think about bolting a MONSTER MERLIN to a stock GM 700-R4 transmission, or using some wimpy rear end and axle setup. We're talking about serious earth-rotating torque here However, when you've got the fuel and
chassis situation under control, you will find this engine to provide an exceptional level of performance. A properly set up car should be able to turn 10s in the quarter mile in full street trim. What's more, the MONSTER MERLIN can be a real "sleeper." Not too many observers will suspect there's 632 cubic inches of pure torque hiding under the hood!

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Block: Merlin II cast iron with 4-bolt mains
Cylinder heads: Merlin Rectangular Port (iron or aluminum) Crankshaft: Callies 4340 forged steel (4.750" stroke) Pistons: Wiseco/JE/SRP 4.600" forged alum. (10:1 comp.)Connecting rods: Eagle 4340 forged 6.700" rod Camshaft: Comp Cams roller cam/Crower roller lifters Intake manifold: Merlin aluminum 360° single plane Carburetor: Modified 870 cfm Holley 4-barrel Valves: Manley Severe Duty® stainless steel Timing Chain: Manley True Roller Lubrication: Stef's oil pump and aluminum pan Piston Rings: Speed-Pro ring set Engine Bearings: Clevite
Ignition: HEI distributor, 8mm spark plug wire Valvetrain: Harland Sharp roller rockers, Manley 4130 pushrods Balance: Internally balanced, ATI balancer Assembly Components: Fel-Pro, ARP and Manley Accessories: Bill Mitchell CNC logo aluminum valve covers $14,995.00

[Scott Misus]

Gach:

No way will that motor last under prolonged, hard street use.

I mean.....it's got your favorite Eagle rods in it.

------------------
"The goggles....they do NOTHING!!"---Rainier Wolfcastle

[Brian Baker]

I have to wonder though, how many people are going to plunk down $15K for a crate engine making that kind of power, and fill it up regularly with 92 or 93 octane pump gas? I mean let's be realisitc. If you've got the money for that type of engine, and the type of chassis needed to harness it, you've also got the money to pay the extra bucks it takes to run race gas all the time. And if it were me, I wouldn't dump 100% pump gas in all the time just because it's only got 10:1 compression and I can probably "get away with it", not after spending that kind of cake on it.

An aquaintance of mine (a friend of a friend, if you will) is currently building a Pro-Street 72 Nova. He recently purchased a similar "monster" to this one Gach describes. His is a 540-CI BBC, I don't know all the particulars (like block, heads, etc.) but it was built by Scott Shaffiroff (spelling?) and was dyno'd at 850-HP with a single dominator. Only thing is though, it's a race gas only engine. Should be fun when he gets it together (he's looking to run 9's).

[Richard Ohran]

Do they take American Express?

[Gach]

Your missing the whole point, no one offers a Pontiac motor making that kind of hp on pmup gas, Hell there not even making that kind of power with race gas. Look at the parts list again, the heads a 340cc heads. Pontiac Super Chief heads are going for 6000.00 and IA block is 3500.00 add another 2200.00 for a steel crank, and we still don't have rods and pistons, let aloan, cam, roller rockers, intake, carb, and many many others things to make a complete carb to pan Dyno motor.Your talking 25,000.00 for a Pontiac motor that won't even come close to making 750 hp on
pump gas for twice the price. Now what if the guy wants to make 1000 hp, aint going to do it, not with out a Blower, add another 3500-4000.00 to that price. Hell you can't even bore that new block to anything any bigger then 540 cid, and that's filling the block, that 632 cid motor is not filled.
You think their making money or what ? Their new add cracks me up, no failures after two years of testing, running 7.40's, testing were, he sure in hell is not running in any compition, i don't call running in 3-4 pontiac events a year testing, and were's all these guys make 1200-1400 hp, I haven't seen any. hell everyone I know of that has bought a new block has had to spend another
grand or better, just to make them right, unless your one of the lucky ones who got to hand pick his block, to me it's all bull **** , why would I want to spend 3500.00 for a block and then have to spend another 1000-1100.00. The reason they can make that 750 hp on pmup gas is because they have the heads to do it, we don't, and it looks like we never will. I mean you talk about being taken for a ride down bull s.hit lane

[Gach]

Richard Ohran, they sure do, and this guy has been building motors for years, and didn't start two years ago. Hey maybe that's the problem....LOL

[KO]

Gach, go build a chevy and leave us alone.

[Gach]

KO, it would be better then racing a FORD no. LOL

[Brian Baker]

Gach, I got your original point, I just chose not to dwell upon. We all know that it costs more money to make a Pontiac run than it does to make Chevy run, and when you get up to the 800+ HP threshold, you can't do it with a Pontiac without some sort of "power adder". If us Pontiac fanatics were so "tight" about the money issue, we'd all be driving and racing "belly button" Chevies, but we're not, and we don't.

The Chevy crowd has a good 25+ years of R&D on us, plus there's more of them than there are us. This is why it is cheaper to build HP with a Chevy, and this is why they have the aftermarket parts available to make 800+ HP normally aspirated.

[Gach]

Brian, I know and it piss's me off, makes me frustrated, so I vent about, every once and a while. We just don't have the numbers like they do. I'm perfectly happy staying with my Pontiac.

[Tom McQueen]

I havent been to Larry Wenzlers website in a while, but arent raw castings of the Super Chief around 1300 bucks for a set. Wheres the rest of that $6000 going? For valves, springs, studs, retainers, etc youll drop another $900. Even if the flow bench work was $1300, youre only at $3500. A quality shaft system is $1000, and this cost really belongs in the valvetrain budget. So were talking about $3500 heads. And Im starting to hear about real big flow numbers from these. Way into the 400's. Seems like progress to me.

[Brian Baker]

I recall seeing a price on those heads of around $4500, ready to bolt on (with shaft rocker assemblies). That's still alot of cake, but if ya' wanna' play.....

Gach, it's not likely we'll ever have the same numbers "en masse" as the Chevy crowd, but we may be getting some better parts in the future. Place yourself back in time to March 1991. Would you have believed then we would have 2 different manufacturers of aluminum heads, a redesigned NEW block, a plethora of choices for pistons and rods that are affordable, etc. in just 10 years?

[Gach]

Tom, I think you should do some checking, your not going to get a set of those heads to flow 400 cfm's for 3500.00 check KRE's site the get 4400.00 for a set of Wenzler ll heads all done complete. Don't you think if they could get those numbers out of those heads, that Butler would have a set on his car right now, why do you think is playing with the Edlebrock heads. Beside, 400 cfm's of what, all I've seen infated flow bench numbers, and never anyone making the hp to prove
it. Look at KRE's new add in HPP with a picture of a blower motor, making 1050 hp, now come on, if you can't make 1200 hp easiely with 400 cfm head and blower I'll eat my hat.

[This message has been edited by Gach (edited 03-20-2001).]

[Wade Congdon]

Good point Brian however I do take issue with your statement "when you get up to the 800+ HP threshold, you can't do it with a Pontiac without some sort of "power adder" or ...800+ HP normally aspirated" If I'm not mistaken I believe the initial tests of Butlers 540 were well over 800 HP on the motor, and that was before the wide port head. Sounds like a glass ceiling to be broken to me...stay tuned.

------------------
Wade Congdon - BOP Engineering
www.bopengineering.com
"If you can turn left you're going too slow"

[Richard Ohran]

Gach, my comment about American Express has some basis of merit. I've had several mail order houses try to rip me off. American Express has always sided with me so far. I think in general they tend to side with the card holder -- even on fairly large items. They are covered even after they have already forwarded payment to the vendor, because a mail order vendor has to post a fairly large bond in order to be able to take American express cards. They can always get their money back through the bond.

I've also run into vendors who don't take American Express. They always seem to have a ready explanation of why they don't, and why it is better for me to send them a check up front. I very seldom deal with anyone by mail on that basis.

I think American Express claims to have a one year guarantee of satisfaction for the cardholder. Supposedly, if you buy a product with your American Express card and decide it doesn't satisfy before a year is up, they will reimburse you. In reality, I don't think they lose any money. They make the vendor eat it. I'm pulling this from memory, but I'm pretty sure that's their guarantee.

That's why I always like to know who takes American Express and who doesn't.

[zedo]

Has anyone even tried to build an all-out street IA yet. I mean a 600" one. It would put out very close or equal to what that Merlin does.

Gach, Nunzi just made 746 HP with an iron 469" Pontiac and RA IV heads. Give him a call and ask him.

What's the hangup with the "crate" motor ??

[Bigred455]

I'm not sure, but I think Scott PArkhurst of PHR is building a 600" motor.

[Cruiser]

Brian is right 25 years of factory and aftermarket development is what makes the difference.
Remember just a couple of years ago Chrysler Corporation resorted to running a GM (Big Block Chevy) based block & heads in "THEIR PRO STOCK ENTRIES" & list them as "THEIR" parts to stay competitive how bogus.
That is like how Pontiac and Chrysler and Ford are taking credit for a funny car victories today, how ridiculous these cars have morphed into an entirely different animal than the original 426 Hemi and have nothing todo with GM or ford except a very very loosly based fiberglass body on a tube frame.
The same thing has happened to the big block chevy it has went through a metamorphisis as well .It is like comparing apples to oranges when you compare Chevies and Pontiacs.
The IA block is very close to a stock block except for the added strength in weak areas.
The BBC is still in production from the factory vs the last traditional Pontiac last produced over 22 years ago.Now where do you think the money will flow?
I think the outlook for Pontiacs is much brighter than it has been probably since the 60s as far as race parts go,and I hope it continues.
I think we all agree that it is much more satisfying building an engine that is considered "history" and making it competitive long after the factory gave up on it many years ago.Installing a B.B.C.in your Poncho is the easy way out,its like buying a diploma, where is the satisfaction of knowing your car is special and not like a thousand others out there.
Later ,Mark B.

[Scott Misus]

I understand that Steve Chin is building a 600" IA for his 200 mph Trans Am.

Scott Porkhurst posts over at Classical Pontiac and not here.......I wonder why.