[Mr6x]

I was over on Face book and noticed this group called "Odd-Ball Pontiac Motors". While browsing this group I noticed that someone is working on not one but three intakes developed for the 301. Tiger Cub I is for standard 301 heads, Tiger Cub II is based on the Street Dominator for traditional Pontiac heads, and the Tiger Cub III looks like its based on a Warrior intake. This is long overdue and will help revitalize a neglected part of this hobby.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/815586749225492

[Half-Inch Stud]

Sounds good, however, after owning a set of 301 heads, the intake ports are CSA-limited so much that mutual runners got to be tried over individual runners.

[tom s]

To build a 301 based engine with std pontiac heads is NOT for the weak of wallet.I have built 2,one D port 383 stroker and one RA V 383 stroker.Head gaskets are always the biggest issue.Fitting a real crank in the block is another challenge.Made a lot of HP with them and lived,both builds are on this site.Tom

[TA63]

Wish someone would make an intake for the turbo cars allowing the use of standard heads.

[tom s]

Wish for head gaskets first!Tom

[81TTA]

Originally Posted by tom s

To build a 301 based engine with std pontiac heads is NOT for the weak of wallet.I have built 2,one D port 383 stroker and one RA V 383 stroker.Head gaskets are always the biggest issue.Fitting a real crank in the block is another challenge.Made a lot of HP with them and lived,both builds are on this site.Tom

Tom, I'm curious if you found some additional issues after post #341 about your 301->383 build when asked how much it would cost to replicate your engine (https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...96#post6267896)

"I would say maybe about the same as a 389-400 depending on how cheap you can buy a 301 engine and a 3.75 crank.The spacer was about $80.The intake is the expensive part.Contact Dave if he would do another and how much.If you have time and are a good alu welder you can do one yourself.IMO the best way is to buy the complete 301 engine as you will get the intake to cut the water X over off,the valley pan and the dipstick and tube you would have to go out and buy anyway.I bought the block alone and bought a 326 engine for parts but it did not supply some needed parts.This engine because of not knowing ended up stupid expensive.Tom "

From what you said then, the head gasket, while not perfect, ended up working for your build? So, no more cost there unless someone wanted a custom gasket. Now, that was after some dyno runs. Wondering if it turned out the head gaskets ultimately failed once the engine was installed in something and had more time/miles?

Your crank appeared to largely "drop in" after getting the thrust bearing spacer made ($80). I'd imagine someone might need to get creative with a grinder to get clearance depending on the crank that's being swapped in. And, that's assuming the 301 crank wasn't going to be used. While important to do correctly, clearancing things shouldn't be a big-dollar effort? I'd imagine more of these intakes and standard heads would be dropped on otherwise stock-ish 301 engines for a performance boost?

The intake seemed to be the only big-ticket item when doing this build. I don't think you mentioned how much Dave charged you or would charge someone else for the same intake/modifications. My guess (we'll see) is that something like the OP posted would probably be cheaper if these are being cast rather than hand-modified like Dave did for you. Maybe not....

I don't want to criticize your work or what you've said. Feels like your comment about the "not for the weak of wallet" applies more to the FIRST person to do a thing. Now that you've gone through all the expense of doing it and figuring out what works, someone with a 301 can replicate what you did for the cost of an intake, standard heads, crankshaft and $80 spacer!

[77 TRASHCAN]

I don't think Tom wants to tell us about the cost of the intake. Dave would charge a fair price, but that task is is a huge deal!!!

[tom s]

JMHO,doing a forged crank was by far more EZ(but not cheaper)than the cast crank.The cast crank needed the interior of the block clearances.The forged was a drop in AFTER getting the thrust welded to cancel the need for a spacer.Turning Js for BBC was the same for both.The V build my builder welded a bridge by the water jacket where it was TOO close for him to build it.There REALLY is a need to have a proper head gasket for the hybrid build.I know Dave did not want to build another intake.The ONLY reason I built the D port because pretty much everyone said I would leave the crank on the dyno room floor.The V was more natural as the factory make 303 short deck SCCA engines and I already owned the single 4 intake and the 2-4 Xram,dizzy and carbs.The D port engine had a higher HP possibility but did NOT have the WOW factor of the Xram.That engine is now at the Throttlestop.I if I really ever loose my mind I would build a D port 383 but find a set of Hilborn FI,convert it to EFI and not have to get a custom intake made.Im pretty much done doing Vs and other crazy builds.My next build will just be a simple round port build with a set of Speedmaster heads to go in my 69 bird.I wish all the best for people to carry on my insanity!Tom

[b-man]

My guess - that special intake killed a thousand dollar bill without mercy at least. Not counting the initial cost of probably a new intake that will weld decently.

I seriously doubt $1500 would have covered the labor.

I have no inside information, just figuring what shop rates are.

Custom fabricated intakes certainly aren’t cheap.

['ol Pinion head]

Would purchase the version 2, basically sectioned Street Dominator, if seller can keep it under $600. I'm betting quite a few others would be interested as well, but as Tom S mentions its not going to be a small budget build to build up a strong 301 turbo block/traditional head engine.

On version 1, don't see the demand.
An alum intake to mate up to the horrible flowing 01 coating heads, what good is that supposed to do? LOL.
That noted, I'm sure a few yahoos would just have to have one, for being cast out of aluminum.

Version 3, the high rise race intake... Oh yeah, ton of demand on a 301 block...

Read a dozen of Ted's FakeBook posts, & honestly, not sure what the man is thinking.

[b-man]

The 301 for most uses should have a dual plane Quadrajet intake, something along the lines of a factory 455 HO or RAIV intake.

Dominator 301 intake makes little sense, almost no market for that. Producing it with a Holley square flange is a decent idea.

I think an aluminum intake that fits stock 301 heads wouldn’t sell enough to justify the production costs.

[tom s]

JMHO,after ACTUALLY building a intake from the ground up if there was a big enough demand at least one would have been built by now.Tom

[81TTA]

I don't think Tom wants to tell us about the cost of the intake. Dave would charge a fair price, but that task is is a huge deal!!!

My guess - that special intake killed a thousand dollar bill without mercy at least.

I wasn't trying to get Tom to tell us how much he paid Dave. As b-man said, I'm sure it was 4 figures at least.

My point was that, I thought/think, the intake was the big-ticket item and issue. Tom seemed to indicate the head gasket was a "bigger" one. Based on the old posts in his thread, it sounded like he found a head gasket that worked well enough. So, if he's now indicating head gasket issues are bigger than $XXXX intake manifolds, I'm interested to know more!

if there was a big enough demand at least one would have been built by now

Good point. Outside of a handful of die-hards or people like you who were just having fun, I don't think there's much of a market. Doesn't help that the part is being made for an old, limited-run engine with a bad reputation. If this was being done in the mid-1980's, it might have a chance to make money.

[tom s]

OK,What ever Dave charged me is not a issue as he said he would not do one again!Was told that you should put a alu intake in a liquid nitrogen bath to clean impurities before trying to weld it.FWIW,Tom