[Squidward]

Well, between the Crower and the Summit, I vote for the Crower based on your stated intentions.

[tstroud]

OK, finally got some time to mock things up.
I put in the crank and all the pistons (without rings) and the cam and timing set.
All my deck heights are .000 to .001 with L2262F's. Had to cut quite a bit off the deck to get there. The deck was pretty tall.

Checking the cam timing I come up with 111 degree ICL with the Summit 2802, 2 degrees retarded with a Cloyes C3007K set. I tried the old 3 key timing set I had and the ICL's came out at 105.5, 113.5 and 121.5. Cam specs call for 109 ICL. Any thought on this? Am I better 3.5 degrees advanced or 2 degrees retarded?

Cleaned the trash out of the intake ports and the intake manifold then did a gasket match. Didn't take much to match them.
Valves and seats just needed a quick touch up.
Checked all the ring gaps and deburred all the rings .
Pretty much deburred everything in the block and rotating assembly. The crank counterweights had some razor sharp burrs on the edges.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

My non-expert opinion is to go with 2° retarded.

[gtofreek]

I would never run a cam retarded. Fastest way to build a turd that pings in my opinion. You can look for some Mopar cam offset keys to dial in the timing. They make them in different degree offsets.

[tstroud]

I don't want a turd that pings. I'll find an offset key somewhere.


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[Squidward]

I had 3 or 4 different "SA" timing sets laying around during my last cam degree, and there was up to 2-3 degrees variation between different gear sets. I bought some cam offset keys, forgot where I put them, and eventually went with Summit's billet roller 9-way. That set got me within a 1/2 degree of desired ICL, so I called it good. I thought the 9-way set was a good piece of hardware.

[tstroud]

So, just to be clear. I am looking for a 1 degree offset crankshaft key for a small block mopar to use on my cam to get 2 degrees at the crankshaft.



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[tstroud]

So it looks like the only current option is the Mr Gasket 987g 2 degree key which will give me 4 degrees at the crank moving the timing to 2 degrees advanced. I guess I should look into a different timing set.


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[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by tstroud

So it looks like the only current option is the Mr Gasket 987g 2 degree key which will give me 4 degrees at the crank moving the timing to 2 degrees advanced. I guess I should look into a different timing set.


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There's a 9 position premium (Squid..)(as in price and quality) timing set available. Butler and SD Performance both sell them. It will allow you to position cam where needed. Sometimes the offset keys just don't get you there easily. Not sure what you have. Have not heard of issues with 9 position set....

[Squidward]

Here is what I used:
https://summitracing.com/parts/sum-g6612r-b

I think it allows 1 degree adjustments at the cam, and 2 degrees at the crank.

I can't tell you that it will never stretch or that it is any better than the Butler/SD version, but it made setup very nice.

[gtofreek]

If you buy another timing set, The Rollmasters are always tight. SA gear sets are pretty much always loose. I like Rollmasters, and usually have no problems getting the timing where I want it. I heard Avon Gear makes a nice set, but have never seen one yet.

[tstroud]

Got the new timing set this weekend and mock fitted it up to check cam timing. I installed it at the +2 degree setting and it dialed in at 109.5 degrees. Probably as close as I am going to get it.
Assembled the bottom end and put the heads on it. What should my rotational torque be with regular Hastings moly first rings and cast second rings? With all the pistons in and no rings I was easily able to turn it over with 1 thumb and 2 fingers on the crank snout. With the rings on it is about 30 ft/lbs steady to turn it over. No tight or loose spots.Seems like the rings are biting in pretty good. I checked all the ring gaps before assembly and they were ok. I gained about 3-4 ft/lbs with each piston I installed. Checked with a beam torque wrench.

Now to detail the 50 year old timing cover an get it put on. Then clearance the new valley cover. Then some paint.

[gtofreek]

If they are 5/64" rings you are good because they usually take around 35 ft. lbs.. 1/16" rings with standard tension oil rings is usually around 30, so I'd say you're good. If you have metric rings, then it's a bit tight. I've gotten them down into the 15-16 ft. lb. range.

[steve25]

25 to 30 lb is typical .

Look close at each Bore now that you rolled it over a few times for scratches being made by the rings.
If your starting to see any then pop those rod and piston assembly's now and with a some 400 grit wet or dry sand paper or a soap stone break the edge of the ring face on both sides of the ring gap and the corner where the facing edge meets the top and bottom of the ring.

When you sand a Moly face ring only sand from the face in, not the other way or you will flake off the Moly.
You would be surprised how much ring drag this can drop off no less saving you compression and oil usage by having no scratches in the Bores.

[tstroud]

Yeah they are 5/64" rings.
I deburred all the ring gaps with a small fine jeweler file after I checked the gap width. I remembered about the Moly flaking. I also looked at the bores after a few revs and seen no scratches.
It's been a few years since I assembled an engine so I am just trying to make sure I am doing OK.
My old Blue Point ring expander had me sweating a few times. Seems like it stretches them out quite a bit. One of these.

[gtofreek]

Yeah, but that's what you need to install rings correctly. I'd say you're golden at 30 ft. lbs. with 5/64" rings.

[tstroud]

Cool. Like is said. It has been a while. It just seemed like a lot of drag to me. Good to know it is on target.
Put the timing cover on tonight. Couldn't find the locating dowels so I centered it on the crank hub after I put a sleeve on the hub. Do I need the dowels? I can take it back off if needed.


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[steve25]

The only time in regards to centering the timing cover with out Dowels that I felt safe in doing so was when the motor was sitting on its Ass on the floor with the face of the block in a vertical position.
One night with a different motor in the car and no dam Dowels to be found I cut them out of steel fuel line tubing, or .030" wall 1/2 ID Brass tubing , I forget which.
I think I cut them .250" tall and cut a slit across them so I could expand them some and get them snug in the timing cover.