[Ollie]

Hi, Jimmo
Good to hear all is well
I suggest you try a GOODYEAR Gatorback belt.
The ribs have diagonal grove segments cutting the ribs in segments of several sizes.
I think this helps prevent cracking and checking on the ribs.
One other suggestion, on your installation you bolted the tension idler pulley on the 5/16"
water pump bolt.
When I installed the tension idler put tension on the belt, I could see a deflection of the bolt.
I drilled the idler bolt holes to 3/8" and bolted the tension idler in the upper 3/8 bolt.

[russosborne]

Jimmo, glad you are well.
PM sent.
Russ

[JC455]

Ollie,
Just thinking out loud here, but do you think if the tensioner was moved to where the idler is, and vice versa, then the system would work with or w/o A/C? I know my '95 F150 has a tensioner that is fairly compact. If something like that were rotated toward the alt-P/S pump, it would tension back toward the W/P pulley.
I made a red arrow on you pic from above- what do you think?

[JC455]

Wait... I think that's Jimmo's setup. Maybe I spoke too soon.

[Ollie]

Yes, that is Jimmo's set up.
This is my set up.
check Arrowhead post 147
He installed the serpentine belt to the alternator and power steering pump.
and a separate V belt to the AC compressor. He bolted the idler to the alternator bracket as Jimmo"s original
installation. The belt tension would be adjusted by moving the alternator.
Reported back in post167, Ran hard at Norwalk. Reported no problems.
Maybe send Arrowhead a pm and ask how the setup with out the spring tension idler is
working after this length of time.
Go on YouTube type in serpentine belt. There are several good instruction videos put out by Dayco.

[Cammer-6]

coming into this kinda late in the game but perhaps you can adjust the depth of WP pulley by moving the flange on the shaft by that .070,then no need for spacers. I didnt read thru the whole 12 pages so if someone already mentioned,ignore.

[jimmo]

Arrowhead sent me a pm a lil while back with what sounds like exactly the same issue. It happened to him 1st but we both wrote it off as he thought he may have overtightened the belt. Now that I had the same issue we can rule out "tensioner vs no tensioner". Also I can rule out my ac compressor alignment. Thats what made me look toward the alt pulley as suspect. If it happens again I will definately be scratchin my head but I will find the culprit, especially with the help of everyone on this forum.

On another topic. The optimal position for a tensioner is right after the crank pulley to pick up the slack of the stretching belt except of course when the belt goes directly to a reverse driven waterpump where that would be impossible. The crank is the "driving" pulley and all the others are "driven". If you watch the tensioner on any serp system you can see the tensioner swing in and out with the load of the accessories. Without the tensioner the belt slaps around. If its going up a short distance to the waterpump like my 1st system its not a problem but going all the way to the ac compressor I thought would be an issue so thats why I installed it there.

Ive seen tensioners in other places, like between the ac and alternator but most of the system I checked out had them after the crank.

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by Cammer-6

coming into this kinda late in the game but perhaps you can adjust the depth of WP pulley by moving the flange on the shaft by that .070,then no need for spacers. I didnt read thru the whole 12 pages so if someone already mentioned,ignore.

There are no spacers on the waterpump pulley, unless Im forgetting something

[AROWHED]

Like Jimmo said, I had the same thing happen back in September, the front-most rib of my belt separated. I figured it was stressed from 6 passes at Norwalk and that I had it just a little too tight. I will be changing out the VW alternator pulley now as well.

I took this pic just tonight...note that the idler is polished on half of it's contact face with the belt, and the belt is shiny in the same travel path area as well. Obviously uneven loading against the pulley face but what is the root cause? There is no belt squealing. I wonder if may be necessary to weld some reinforcement metal to the backside of the alternator bracket at the idler pulley mount, to prevent pulley deflection.

[Stuckinda60s]

From the looks of things, I'd say that your alternator pulley is misaligned. You need to make sure that everything lines up with a straightedge when everything's in tension.

You could also be misaligned, vertically, with the idler. But the alternator, from the picture, appears to be oul of true. If you think about it, objectively, you can visualize what could give you that pattern.

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by jimmo

There are no spacers on the waterpump pulley, unless Im forgetting something

no but youre trying to line up the crank pulley with the WP pulley.
You can move the WP pulley and eliminate the crank spacer

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

Like Jimmo said, I had the same thing happen back in September, the front-most rib of my belt separated. I figured it was stressed from 6 passes at Norwalk and that I had it just a little too tight. I will be changing out the VW alternator pulley now as well.

I took this pic just tonight...note that the idler is polished on half of it's contact face with the belt, and the belt is shiny in the same travel path area as well. Obviously uneven loading against the pulley face but what is the root cause? There is no belt squealing. I wonder if may be necessary to weld some reinforcement metal to the backside of the alternator bracket at the idler pulley mount, to prevent pulley deflection.

Take the idler off,put a large crescent wrench on the bracket exactly perpendicular to the angle belt is at when the pulley is in place
pull the wrench towards front of motor.
this will tweak the bracket slightly and put the pulley in the proper plane.
In other words the front of idler pulley needs to go down slightly.
Bracket looks heavy enough.
To check your angle you can put a very long bolt in the hole the idler would mount in.
the longer the bolt the more the angle will be noticeable.
Also make sure the idler doesnt have any slop in it
Grab by the pulley without a belt on and see if you can wiggle it.

[AROWHED]

Thank you all for your suggestions, will investigate the situation further this weekend. I hadn't really noticed the odd idler wear until I saw this thread had came alive again recently and figured I'd better check it out.

[Ollie]

Arrowhed, When you drilled the hole in the alternator bracket did you use a drill press?
If you drilled with a hand drill the hole may not be perpendicular to the bracket causing the belt to not track properly.
Check this YouTube video, showing the correct belt installation.
The belt was installed on an engine with out a front clip for clarity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBGAPMId4Ds
Also on you tube use the search words "Serpentine belt alignment.
Here's another good video.
Ensure the belt ribs are alinged in the groves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBGAPMId4Ds

[AROWHED]

I did in fact use a drill press, the hole size is right on, and deburred the hole. Not to mention the large spacer Jimmo supplied would surely square the idler to the bracket. I'm leaning towards alternator alignment...will be checking it out much closer soon enough.

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

I did in fact use a drill press, the hole size is right on, and deburred the hole. Not to mention the large spacer Jimmo supplied would surely square the idler to the bracket. I'm leaning towards alternator alignment...will be checking it out much closer soon enough.

Yes, alternator pulley alignment. Did you move the alternator pulley out about 0.25"?
if you need a pm your address I have 9, will send one to you.
Go back through Jimmo's post there is quite a discussion on
alternator pulley alignment.
I found some 0.203 spacers on E-bay from this seller.

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by Cammer-6

no but youre trying to line up the crank pulley with the WP pulley.
You can move the WP pulley and eliminate the crank spacer

Oh, I get it now, yea, that was mentioned somewhere and is possible for anyone that wants to do that. It should work the same. You would also have to press the ps pump pulley on a lil more. The only reason I chose to go with the spacer is from an awful memory I have of the time I had to replace my waterpump in a mall parking lot about an hr from home after the waterpump bearing violently exploded with no warning signs. I was lucky enough to be close to a napa and had all the tools I needed to be back on the road in a short time. I would have been kicking myself if I needed to modify the waterpump via a shop press before installing it. probably would have had to tow the car or leave it overnight.
This happened many years ago before the serp install.

[Ollie]

Yes, I agree, don't move the water pump pulley. The water pump pulley and the crank pulley should align using the AC delete spacer. I belive it was determined the alternator pulley required about a 1/4" spacer. All other pulleys and idlers are aligned to the crank and water pump pulley .

[Cammer-6]

when checking alignment of anything remember
String is your friend

[jimmo]

Yea, your eyes can play tricks on you. Also camera angles play trick too. Arowhed's system might be dead on in person even though the photo does not reflect that. Ive taken so many photos and sifted thru before posting. Ive had quite a few that distorded my system also.
I did use string when setting mine up. Also a straight edge and one of those picture hanging red laser lines. If ya stare at it long enough it still plays tricks on ya. I also used everyone who visited me to look at it and tell me if they thought it was crooked.
One thing about using the straight edge is that all the pulleys have a different size front lip so ya cant use the lip as the guide. I measured off of it and back to the first rib of each pulley.