[lust4speed]

FelPro recommends the 1016 head gasket for aluminum heads over the standard 1218 gaskets that come in their engine gasket kits.

Pontiac heater nipples were restricted down to a 1/4" and they wouldn't have wasted money in doing that if there wasn't a reason. Edelbrock's included brass hose nipple is for the 5/8" hose and has an inside diameter of a 1/2". I always drill and tap for a plug with a 1/4" hole.

[steve25]

So someone explain to me why a heater core is any less sturdy then a radiator when it comes to holding up to 16 psi?

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Has the age of the heads been verified ? The early heads prior to 3/15/02 used different head bolts than newer heads.


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You wouldn't happen to recall the differences between the head bolts would you!? Seem to be drawing a blank on specifics. (need more coffee!)



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[Steve C.]

Information on the Edelbrock link offers some notes on the subject. Personally I've always used a ARP stud kit on my heads.

https://www.edelbrock.com/pontiac-he...-kit-8556.html

https://www.edelbrock.com/edelbrock-...ock-heads.html

Note that Edelbrock Cylinder Heads for the Pontiac 389-455 engine require a special head bolt. The head bolt boss heights have been changed in the Pontiac cylinder head to eliminate problems with cracking at the upper head bolt boss end for high-output applications. The new head bolt boss height also simplifies the head bolt kit by requiring only three different lengths instead of six different lengths in the previous head bolt kit.



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[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by steve25

So someone explain to me why a heater core is any less sturdy then a radiator when it comes to holding up to 16 psi?

Hydraulics. It's not the overall pressure of the system as measured at the radiator cap but the "push" of the coolant through the engine and subsequent passage through the restriction of the heater core. By the time the coolant reaches the radiator the flow has stabilized. Heater core can be seen as the nozzle at the end of a hose. Good to move that "nozzle" before the heater core in the form of a 1/4" restriction and let it take the abuse.

[indymanjoe]

Looks like i got the last set of arp's from summit. just ordered them.

[johnta1]

Little late to the discussion but the early heads used 6 different bolt lengths.
Easy way to see if the heads are early is the 2 out bolt holes in the valve cover area are recessed way down in the head. Newer ones supposedly are about equal with rest of the holes. (haven't seen a newer style head though)

Getting a socket on that bolt (if nut it needs a smaller head).

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Pontiac heater nipples were restricted down to a 1/4" and they wouldn't have wasted money in doing that if there wasn't a reason

Oldsmobile restricted their heater supply, so did Chevrolet.

No promises on Buick and Cadillac, but my guess is that all GM divisions restricted the heater core flow somehow. Either a small hole in the heater supply fitting, or a restriction built-into the heater core inlet tube.

[HWYSTR455]

I would might have agreed with the 'hammering' theory, but the T-stat doesn't slam shut or open immediately.

Even if the stat hung closed the psi I doubt would build enough to blow the core, but not 100% sure on that one, simply because in that case, a restriction wouldn't help.


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[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Little late to the discussion but the early heads used 6 different bolt lengths.
Easy way to see if the heads are early is the 2 out bolt holes in the valve cover area are recessed way down in the head. Newer ones supposedly are about equal with rest of the holes. (haven't seen a newer style head though)

Getting a socket on that bolt (if nut it needs a smaller head).

And this is why I was under the impression that it's possible even studs may not have enough threads to allow the nut to be torqued far enough to provide enough clamping force.

Not sure if that's true or not, but that was my logic. Would like to hear comments on that.

I don't think there's a specific set of studs offered by ARP for the E-Heads or not.


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[Steve C.]

ARP Head Stud Kit

https://arp-bolts.com/kits/arpkit-de...p?RecordID=713

This one notes a year involved

https://arp-bolts.com/kits/arpkit-de...p?RecordID=714




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[HWYSTR455]

Oh wow, now I wonder if I have the right ones.

Any idea what the stud lengths are for iron heads? How much different they are from the E-head ones?



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[johnta1]

They are quite a bit different.

[HWYSTR455]

Maybe I can tell by how many threads are exposed over the nut?

If it's a gross difference, I would think it would be obvious?


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[johnta1]

I would check the stud/bolt using the head.
Put a nut on stud (if stud) with washer and drop it in the head.
On deck side of head see how much it protrudes. You can tell if it is too long or too short. ( or just right)

[HWYSTR455]

Well. It's already assembled.

I usually bottom the stud and back off about a 1/4 turn when installing. I just checked and they are all within about 2-3 threads showing over the nuts.

Pretty sure when I assembled it there were only 3 lengths, and they are 12-points. If they are too long, or too short, I would think it would be obvious.

The ones listed for round port E-Heads are all showing the same lengths for '02-up E-heads (3 diff lengths, 190-4304 & 190-4305), but none show the lengths for iron heads.


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[johnta1]

If you have threads showing should be good to go.

[lust4speed]

I went through the stud selection years ago when I went with the AllPontiac aluminum block and first gen Edelbrock RPM heads. A joint effort involving Frank and myself finally got things sorted out and it didn't involve the pre-boxed studs listed on the ARP website. 1" or a little less thread engagement should be fine for the cast iron block, but that little engagement when there is 2" available on the aluminum block probably wasn't going to cut it. Even after exhausting the inventory at ARP for stud lengths I still had three studs that had to have steel bushings because they were just a little too long. Raced for years with this setup with absolutely no problem.

Story gets a little weird when the friend I sold the car and engine to had it freshened at a local shop and they discarded my custom kit and went with the off-the-shelf ARP studs. He had seepage of coolant into the oil and couldn't figure out why. I talked him into going back to my fitted studs and the leak stopped. I'm figuring that the short end studs in the kit fitted on the early head was too long and he ran out of threads before torqueing down the head.

[HWYSTR455]

So I have 3 sets of 87cc round port E-heads, used 2 of them are 315cfm on an OE blocks, and one set 340cfm on an IA2 iron block.

I was building a boosted engine, started with an OE block and iron heads. When the IA2 block came out, I switch the guts of the OE block over to that 2nd run IA2 block.

Then I bought the 1st set of 315cfm E-heads, and swapped them onto the IA2 block.

Changed directions on the boosted build, sold the rotating assembly, and put the heads on one of the OE blocks with the heads off the IA2 block.

Bought the 2nd set of 315cfm E-heads and built the IA2 as an NA engine.

There's more, but to make a long story short, not sure which set of studs I have on the IA2 build. Shortly after startup it popped the gasket between #4 & #6 cyl, I bough the 340cfm E-heads and installed.

Had a mild seep on the head gaskets in same area on both side, nothing in the oil, just a hint of a few drips after a few startups. I used MLS gaskets and retorqued twice after a few cycles. It looks good now but will keep an eye on it.

But, just to say, I've think I've maybe had 1 head gasket failure on any of the pontiac engines I've built and never had Cometics leak. And that's why I question which studs I have.


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[indymanjoe]

Yea i jumped the gun thinking i got arp studs from summit but after looking its the edelbrock bolt kit i got. I think it will be fine for what im doing.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-85492

What are the options for keeping things like the starter wire down tube attached to the block. if im saying that right? as some bolts are threaded on top as well?