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tripwr1964 · 07-10-2008, 06:33 PM

got a set of dga20s pypes downpipes to go with my rare ho/ra 2.5" manifolds. the downpipes are my limiting factor to getting the rest of the system (x-chg) up (note: i have all new engine and tranny mounts installed). mufflers and tailpipes fit nice, rest of system is hanging due to the downpipes. thought i'd take them to a local muffler shop and have them cut and reflanged (to pull them up), but no one has the proper equipment to flare these ss pipes so close to the bend. I am estimating removing 1/2" passenger side and 3/4" driverside. one option is to cut out a straight section and reweld the flange... anyothers? Ccass? thks Tim

PONTIAC LARRY · 07-10-2008, 07:07 PM

I have the same problem , I am still pissed...

moegoat · 07-10-2008, 10:51 PM

You need to find a muffler shop with the segmented flare tooling that fits on the arbor for the expander. My recollection tells me that this was mostly on the Ben Pearson pipe machines with the maxed out tooling & die package. A shop I used to work at long ago had all the tooling to make the flared end on the pipe for the Ram Air/HO style manifolds. I did a lot of Pontiac systems when I worked there. The tooling makes it a piece of cake.
The other option is to do what you have already thought of, cut & reweld.

car guy · 07-10-2008, 11:31 PM

I bought a Pypes exhaust system for a Can Am I had and it was a disaster!!! Never could get that bolt up system to fit right even after paying a lot of money to a shop which you shouldn't have to do to a pre fab system.

2manyponchos · 08:15 AM

tripwr1964. Could you post some pictures of the down pipes installed. We've installed nearly 2 dozen pypes systems with great success, probably 75% have been with ram air down pipes. I have seen more than once on other Pypes installations that individuals have switched the right and left head pipes and that can cause similar issues to what you are seeing. Not saying it is the case, but have seen it and we similary fought the first system that we installed about 4 years ago. As the pipes are mandrel bent and larger diameter than the original pipes they will hang slightly lower, but we have never had issues with clearance. Attached are some pictures of a '67 convertible with a 4spd that we recently installed. Takes us about 2-3 hours to install and button up a new system. Just trying to help.

tripwr1964 · 07-11-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manyponchos

tripwr1964. Could you post some pictures of the down pipes installed. We've installed nearly 2 dozen pypes systems with great success, probably 75% have been with ram air down pipes. I have seen more than once on other Pypes installations that individuals have switched the right and left head pipes and that can cause similar issues to what you are seeing. Not saying it is the case, but have seen it and we similary fought the first system that we installed about 4 years ago. As the pipes are mandrel bent and larger diameter than the original pipes they will hang slightly lower, but we have never had issues with clearance. Attached are some pictures of a '67 convertible with a 4spd that we recently installed. Takes us about 2-3 hours to install and button up a new system. Just trying to help.

toomany,
yeah my downpipe sit about in the same relative position compared to the '67 tranny brace humps pictured. looks like using the straight pipes you can orient them such that they aren't hanging between the downpipe and muffler. Have you installed the x-change with these (would assume so). I am going to fiddle with them tonight or in the morning. I'll install again and take some pics... believe I have the right pipe on the right side. I asked Mike, at Pypes, a couple weeks ago and never received a definitive answer or response, using their on-line live help.... my questions may have gotten lost in the system. Like I said I'll take some pics and post soon. Hate to have to cut and weld these. Thks all. Tim

ClassJ · 07-11-2008, 07:12 PM

I am interested in the outcome of this. I have bottomed my 67 400 HO once on a bad dip and crushed a perfectly good set of stock head HO pipes. If the Pypes downpipes sit any lower I am not interested and will have to go with something else.

400 4spd. · 07-11-2008, 09:13 PM

Yeah, I want to see how this gets resolved. Please keep us informed.

I have a 67 4 speed, RARE 2.5" manifolds, and a complete Pypes system with DGA 20 downpipes and the X pipe. All of it is still in the boxes. Everything looks beautiful in the box, nice welds, cuts and bends. But it has to fit. I have no idea when it will be installed, but would like to know if anyone has had similar problems when using the X-pipe, vs. the X-change problem described above.

Also curious if any of the comparable systems have a tighter radius on the down pipe that prevents the clearance issue the first 2 posters have.

north · 07-11-2008, 10:18 PM

I went through this way back when on a RA 3 69 GTO. Tryed all kinds of muffler shops and "kit" companies out hemmings and the like, all way to low. Looked like I had headers.

I bought a setup from Gardiner and it went in in about 20 minutes. I have since bought 7 systems from them. All perfect!

Only negative is that they do not do higher perf systems 2.5" etc.

getmygoat · 07-12-2008, 01:03 AM

For what its worth, I bought two sets of head pipes for Ram Air manifolds from Ames, and they also hung very low. (One 69 and one 70 GTO).

north · 07-12-2008, 08:11 AM

Factory head pipes (for HO manifold cars) had such a tight bend at the front that they came with the flanges installed since they did not clear the bend.

goatman55 · 07-12-2008, 11:23 AM

I've got the dga20s downpipes and I am satisfied with the ground clearance. My car has 2" lowered springs and I haven't had a problem yet.

Their lowest point is roughly where the front wheel is so it would be hard to make it bottom out. I'm sure if the ground had more than 3" of crown between the front tires there might be a problem, but I typically avoid those situations.

Dave

tripwr1964 · 07-12-2008, 11:32 AM

I'll take some pics in a bit, my battery is charging...
I switched the downpipes around and they seem to have more clearance and line up in the hump of the cross memember. This looks correct, but doesn't look like the orientation 2many and the pypes photo gallery ('65 conv) have. Would like to get confirmation. post a pic in a few. thks

tripwr1964 · 12:23 PM

does this look correct? the bends are toward the centerline of car, which is different than any other pics i've seen, but it looks & fits much better.

Ccass · 07-12-2008, 05:17 PM

Tri, DGA20S have at least 4" of ground clearance on the left and 4.5" on the right. That should be plenty with good suspension. We patterned them on both my 68 Convertible and 67 sedan. The 68 originally would occasionally scrape on the left side if you bottomed the shocks out but we updated the downpipes and took out another inch on the LH side. That was 4 years ago. With the exception that they are 2.5" in diameter they are extremely close to oem ride height. We designed the pipes for performance. That's the tightest the mandrel bend can be made. The mandrel bend is worth 8hp as per HPP magazine article and our tests. i had X-change X pipe on both cars and the clearance is fine. I think maybe you are trying to tuck the system up too high. With the dumps, you can't. Take a look at the various installs on the Pypes 'installation gallery'.

tripwr1964 · 07-12-2008, 06:40 PM

ccass, think iam on the right path. as 2many mentioned, i had the pipes reversed... i was looking a pictures of non-ho/ra downpipes, and looking at which way the pipes bend and put them on the wrong side. it's much tighter now and think i can get everything up and centered in the humps. glad i switched them before cuting and pasting! waiting on some 1" band clamps for the tail pipe to muffler connection, then i'll get it hooked back up and take some pics.

how do you know which pipe goes on which side? the pics on your site are what miss lead me to begin with...

Thks Tim

tripwr1964 · 07-14-2008, 09:22 PM

Ccass/anyone,

Look at my first attachment.... Is this the correct pipe for the drivers side? The reason I ask, is because it will take considerable trimming on the passenger side front leg to make the passengers side down pipe fit. I just want to confirm I have these on the correct side before I chop. How do I tell?
All the pics I've used for reference are std downpipes not ra/ho downpipes.

tripwr1964 · 07-14-2008, 10:15 PM

ok, there on. by switching the downpipes i as able to get the system back up. i assume this is correct. they don't look like any pics i've seen however....

Ccass · 07-15-2008, 10:56 AM

The LH and RH are so similar that I have seen installations both ways. Your installation looks fine. Here is the way we originally made them on our 1968 GTO HO car.

http://pypesexhaust.com/gallery02.html

I think they are reverse of the way you installed them.

tripwr1964 · 07-15-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ccass

The LH and RH are so similar that I have seen installations both ways. Your installation looks fine. Here is the way we originally made them on our 1968 GTO HO car.

http://pypesexhaust.com/gallery02.html

I think they are reverse of the way you installed them.

Thks for taking a look Ccass. Yeah I thought I was going crazy looking at all the different pics, each with bends going different directions. By installing them reversed, it gained some much needed ground clearance, got the pipes centered in the crossmember hump, and got the x-chg up. Little frustration, but we got there. This orientation only required 2 cuts (one for each downpipe). Thks for help all! Tim

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