[racerboy]

Originally Posted by steve25

You need to get a big ass punch with a tip just small enough to fit in the square hole and beat on it with a ball peen hammer.

That will jar the threads up enough to let you remove it.

This assumes you do not have a Oxy torch to heat up a good amount wil first.

Thanks Steve. It’s actually an Allen-head plug (size 8). I don’t have an Oxy torch. I have a MAPP torch, if you think that might work.

I can also just run to the hardware store and get a couple to see what fits. It’s definitely bigger than 1/2 in.

Here’s what it looks like:



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[racerboy]

Originally Posted by 1969400HO

After reading it so far I would say YES, get the fuel inlet redone, these Rochesters are typical - poor material, so welcome to the club.

I am in Portland Oregon and have a regional Q-jet guy here who does this refits them, if u want his contact info let me know.

Or buy the drill & Tap and YouTube learn and do it yourself.

Anyway, Looks like a multi path hunt for the issue.

So you were Fine after about 50 mies run,
was this the NEW engine maiden voyage?

All new everything etc?

Thanks. This wasn't necessarily the maiden voyage. I had taken the car out a couple of times before and had no issues. Yes everything is new.

Originally Posted by 1969400HO

Plugs I would just clean them or maybe go down One level colder plug.

Your coil primary wire OHM should read low of 0.6 to max of 2.0. OHMS.
Primary wire is the (-) side to the (+) side reading on the coil.
Secondary is either one of those to the Center wire reading.

Secondary should be near 6 OHMS to maybe 15-ish OHMS.

Voltage to the coil is only 9.5V usually, due to built-in Resistance wire in the harness, it divides the 12V down.

I will measure the OHMs with a multimeter today.

Originally Posted by 1969400HO

Did the points friction/lobe tab have enough lubrication on it?

What was the gap when you examined the points?
Should be 0.017" +/= 001.

Lack of lube on contact tab/lobes will shortly kill any set of points, no matter what brand.

The stutter-jerking worsening as you went, sorta sounds like points got ate up from lack of lube.

I am not sure if the points had adequate lube. I do have a new set of points (that I did lube) that I will put back in today. I did not know that the lack of lube could possibly cause failure so quickly. The points in the car only have about 250-300 miles on them.

Originally Posted by 1969400HO

When you took off the carb, did you notice if it seemed like it had a
"normal amount" full of fuel in it?

As if it was low or almost dry then look at there options on fuel supply like Pump, the centric possibly bad or failing, of crapped up lines.

I did notice that there was not a lot of fuel leaking out when I pulled the inlet. I put a rag under the inlet to absorb the gas when I pulled the line, but only a little bit dribbled out.

Originally Posted by 1969400HO

Did you Replace the fuel lines and DID you put a NEW tank in car?

Everything is new. Tank, sending unit, cap, hard lines, rubber lines, pump, filter. I think the debris/grit was from a previous repair of the inlet. As soon as I removed that inlet, it would not re-seat properly. That's why I tried a different carb.

Originally Posted by 1969400HO

Can always put a rubber hose on the output of the line there,
and run it into a container.

Put Dist., back in before turning eng over.

Turning engine over (leave plugs OUT so turns over easier). to see what fuel looks like and if pressure seems adequate and how clean fuel is.

I did this and the fuel seemed to come out ok, and was not full of junk. I do have another fuel pump that I could put on just to rule that out, if you think it's a good idea.

Originally Posted by 1969400HO

I would try to start it before lifting the RR lids off unless you believe there was noises or mechanical issues inducing this problem.

Yes One bad spring can occur early on easily and yet shouldn't make it act like it was fuel starved or Electrical shorting symptoms though.

Let us now what you found.

I looked under valve covers and everything looked good. There were no bent pushrods, or loosening of lock nuts or broken springs.

[racerboy]

I think the plug is a 9/16. The OD measured around .572 on my caliper, and it looks like there is a threaded insert in there. Advance Auto has these in stock, so I'll grab one at lunch time. Assuming it fits, do I need to put anything on the threads for sealant purposes?

[Kenth]

You will find the correct electrical specifications in the 1966 Tempest Shop Manual.
The primary resistance in coil, measured over + and - on coil should read 1.8-2.0 Ohms.
The secondary resistance, measured over either + OR - and center terminal should read 7200-9500 Ohms (may read up to 16000 Ohms without fault).

With ignition ON and points closed you should read 5-7 volts over + on coil and chassis ground.
Measured with engine running measured this way you should read around 11 volts (around 14 volts over battery terminals).

HTH

[NeighborsComplaint]

Just trying to be logical here. Did the engine builder provide you a complete running engine with a guarantee? Did he install the motor and give you back a running car? In either case, if the work was performed recently, take it back to him and him and let him resolve the problems.

If an excessive amount of time has passed since it was rebuilt, or it was a motor/no accessories build, you are stuck trouble shooting it yourself.

[1969400HO]

My BAD here, Yes I have several coils measure 6-15 K OHMS not 6-15 OHMS.
Big difference there, sorry.

If all else fails and cannot figure it our by 3PM today, I'll offer you $2,500 and take it off your hands,

Hate to see a Pontiac owner have to go thru this stuff.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

Just trying to be logical here. Did the engine builder provide you a complete running engine with a guarantee? Did he install the motor and give you back a running car? In either case, if the work was performed recently, take it back to him and him and let him resolve the problems.

If an excessive amount of time has passed since it was rebuilt, or it was a motor/no accessories build, you are stuck trouble shooting it yourself.

Long block was built by engine builder back in 2014. I bought the carb from the PY forums, and I had the distributor rebuilt by someone else. I think this is on me to (with help from everyone here) to figure out. I take it as a 'learning experience'.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by Kenth

You will find the correct electrical specifications in the 1966 Tempest Shop Manual.
The primary resistance in coil, measured over + and - on coil should read 1.8-2.0 Ohms.
The secondary resistance, measured over either + OR - and center terminal should read 7200-9500 Ohms (may read up to 16000 Ohms without fault).

With ignition ON and points closed you should read 5-7 volts over + on coil and chassis ground.
Measured with engine running measured this way you should read around 11 volts (around 14 volts over battery terminals).

HTH

The primary resistance was 2.6
Secondary resistance was 16800


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[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by racerboy

Long block was built by engine builder back in 2014. I bought the carb from the PY forums, and I had the distributor rebuilt by someone else. I think this is on me to (with help from everyone here) to figure out. I take it as a 'learning experience'.

Yeah, your "best if used by date" is long gone. plus you added your own accessories so you're on you're on your own even with a brand new build.

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by racerboy

The primary resistance was 2.6
Secondary resistance was 16800


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Did you pull the wiring from coil before measuring?
2.6 on coil only makes weaker sparks on plugs, than the correct 1.8-2.0 Ohms.
Any markings on coil?
BTW, resitor wire on most, if not all, GM vehicles with points ignition is 1.3 Ohms for a total of 3.1-3.3 Ohms running running.

[racerboy]

So this will make absolutely no sense. The new Accel points got delivered. I put them in (along with new condenser) but car would not start. I put the old points in, but left new condenser, and all of a sudden car idles just fine. I took it around the block for a test drive and it was running just like it did before the problem started. Until I tried to really get on it, then it felt like ti would cut-out at higher RPM at full throttle, It definitely idles better and cruises fine. Is it possible that a failed condenser was my issue? Why wouldn't the Accel points get the car running?

[steve25]

One would have to assume that the new points where either not opening or not closing.
A resistance test would tell you if there shorted even when you hold the points open with some paper or card board.

[racerboy]

And one more thing, I did disconnect the fuel inlet (after car was sitting for about 1 hr) and no fuel spilled out. Might I still have a fuel-pump issue. Is the fuel bowl supposed to remain full of fuel, even after you shut car off? Is the in-line filter (before the carb) supposed to only allow fuel to flow one way?

[Joe's Garage]

If the pump is failing and allows backflow, the siphon could empty the fuel bowl when you turn the engine off.

Did you test your fuel pressure? We've had a couple pumps get eaten up by that piss-gas they are selling nowadays. They would pump fuel, but only generate about 1.5-2psi. Enough to idle and low-speed cruise but not enough to drive aggressively.

Sounds like the condenser was definitely one of the problems.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Kenth

Did you pull the wiring from coil before measuring?
2.6 on coil only makes weaker sparks on plugs, than the correct 1.8-2.0 Ohms.
Any markings on coil?

By the time a person is measuring onsie-twosie ohms, the resistance in the leads of the meter can make a big difference in the displayed results.

Most folks won't check the lead resistance. My meter leads are pretty consistent at 0.2 ohms. Crappy or damaged leads can be higher-resistance, or even variable.

Originally Posted by racerboy

I put the old points in, but left new condenser, and all of a sudden car idles just fine... ...Is it possible that a failed condenser was my issue?

Yes.

Originally Posted by racerboy

Why wouldn't the Accel points get the car running?

Defective? Installed wrong? "Protective coating" on the contacts not allowing current flow?

Originally Posted by racerboy

I did disconnect the fuel inlet (after car was sitting for about 1 hr) and no fuel spilled out. Might I still have a fuel-pump issue.

Maybe. Do you have a "Vapor Return" on the pump, connected to the tank? The fuel pumps with "vapor return" won't retain pressure.

Originally Posted by racerboy

Is the fuel bowl supposed to remain full of fuel, even after you shut car off?

Until the fuel evaporates out of the carb float bowl.

Originally Posted by racerboy

Is the in-line filter (before the carb) supposed to only allow fuel to flow one way?

No. Some in-carb fuel filters have a cheap plastic check valve ("safety valve" or "rollover valve") that prevents reverse flow.

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

If the pump is failing and allows backflow, the siphon could empty the fuel bowl when you turn the engine off.

Not really. Everything from the needle 'n' seat "could" flow back to the level of the gas tank, leaving an empty fuel tube from pump to carb. But the seat assembly acts as a "standpipe", what's in the bowl can't climb up the seat to flow out the imperfect seal on the needle.

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Did you test your fuel pressure? We've had a couple pumps get eaten up by that piss-gas they are selling nowadays. They would pump fuel, but only generate about 1.5-2psi. Enough to idle and low-speed cruise but not enough to drive aggressively.

I don't know why "piss-gas" would affect pressure. Outright failure, I understand. But I don't know everything.

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Sounds like the condenser was definitely one of the problems.

Yes, and I like that you infer that it's "ONE OF the problemS". There's clearly more than one.

[1969400HO]

Rig up a pressure gauge to view it see what it reads.
Observe if it is steady 6-7PSI delivery. Needs to be at idle and in normal driving mode too.
If not start inspecting things= Pump etc.

[racerboy]

So i was able to drive it over to my friends shop just to have him check the timing and see if he had any ideas. He installed one of those breakerless SE modules he had (he's a Buick guy) and set the timing. He was originally setting it to 38, but I thought that was a bit much for this car so he moved it back to 35 degrees total, but he said the timing was erratic on occasion it was erratic and it would backfire a little at idle. He asked if I might have a tight valve, but I didn't think that was the case because it ran fine or the first 300 miles or so. He suggested just swapping over the cap and wires from my Trans Am, just to make sure there wasn't a bad wire or something. I drove it home and you could still feel the stutter so clearly the timing alone wasn't the problem. The car died at the bottom of my driveway. When I went to restart it, all it would do is backfire (and flames would pop out of the carb). I called him and he thought that I might have water in my gas? Does that sound right? Car is sort of stuck on my street right now.

[tekuhn]

Have you swapped the cap and wires as he suggested? I would also do the coil.

[steve25]

Water in the fuel will not make it back fire and neither will a coil!
A bad coil might make it not start, or miss if started, but not back fire.

If it’s something to do misfire wise stemming from the distributor then swapping in a known good cap and rotor should tell you something, as should swapping over the plug wires if need be.

Also unstable timing makes me think you could have a timing chain issue going on, especially if the timing is drifting around!

[racerboy]

Thanks. After it sat for about 30 min, it did start. I was able to nurse it up the driveway and back in the garage. I'm going to try swapping things (one by one). First I'm going to replace the black wire that goes from the negative side of coil to the points (now breaker less module). That is the only wire that doesn't feel supple. It's not worn through or frayed, but the insulation feels cracked. I have another Pontiac distributor so I can just swap tag wire pretty quickly. The one on my other distributor feels much more supple.