[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by racerboy

Was the vacuum hose disconnected from the nipple BEFORE you took the fuel tube off?

Originally Posted by racerboy

Stock distributor, stock coil and points. Everything new/rebuilt. Using an Innova digital timing light.

SOME timing lights have logic circuitry so that above a certain RPM, they only flash on every other spark pulse. Saves on the strobe light.

But it would still seem to be even flashing, what I hear being described is uneven flashing accompanied by misfire.

Originally Posted by steve25

To test the condenser fully which is a capacitor you need a meter that can test for ESR ( effective series resistance) because a cap should have very very low resistance to it.
In place of that tester if you have a ohm meter hook it up to the lead and the body of the condenser.

When you do this the meter will flash a resistance reading and then go to infinity, or reading open.
If you get any reading once the condenser charges up of even 10,000 ohms then it’s bad.

Testing ESR is important, but testing the actual capacitance would be even moreso. And as you said, testing from the wire lead to the case and getting less than infinite resistance (capacitor shorted to ground) would be a sure sign that the capacitor / condenser was defective.

Originally Posted by racerboy

I pulled the rotor and everything appears in order. No wires have any worn insulation.

I haven't dicked with distributor points and condenser in decades. WHERE is the distributor condenser? Around the back where the photo doesn't show it? And the failed insulation could be UNDER the breaker plate. If the distributor was "restored", I assume the wires are fresh and still supple.


That's not the distributor condenser. That one is for the voltage regulator. There'll be another one on the + side of the coil. It isn't that one, either. The one in the distributor is electrically connected to the - side of the coil, but it's housed in the distributor.

Originally Posted by racerboy

Here’s what the plugs look like;

Those plugs are way darker than I'd expect given their low mileage--250 miles.

Using some sort of fuel additive?

Mixture overly-rich? Fuel curve wrong? Choke stuck on? Idle mixture screws not adjusted properly?

Originally Posted by racerboy

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[Joe's Garage]

OP mentioned that he had swapped the carb out in a diagnosis attempt. Maybe the pic is during that swap.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Was the vacuum hose disconnected from the nipple BEFORE you took the fuel tube off?

Like Joe said, I disconnected the vacuum advance line while I was getting ready to swap carbs,

Originally Posted by Schurkey

I haven't dicked with distributor points and condenser in decades. WHERE is the distributor condenser? Around the back where the photo doesn't show it? And the failed insulation could be UNDER the breaker plate. If the distributor was "restored", I assume the wires are fresh and still supple.

That's not the distributor condenser. That one is for the voltage regulator. There'll be another one on the + side of the coil. It isn't that one, either. The one in the distributor is electrically connected to the - side of the coil, but it's housed in the distributor.

OK. Should I pull the distributor out? OR at least pull the weights and springs? Should I also get a new set of points? Is it possible they are bad (even though new)? Would that cause the running rough?

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Those plugs are way darker than I'd expect given their low mileage--250 miles.

Using some sort of fuel additive?

Mixture overly-rich? Fuel curve wrong? Choke stuck on? Idle mixture screws not adjusted properly?

I was running an octane booster (forget the name - will look in garage alter today). I didn't set up the carb fuel mixture, I assumed that it was done at time of restoration, but could be wrong.

[gto19]

Have you tried a different coil ?

[Jay S]

Could be the point contacts are burnt. The over the counter points that are sold these days burn easily, especially when the ballast resistor sends to much voltage to them. The OEM sets in the past were much better, but too much voltage would kill them fairly quickly to. Usually points start missing at the higher rpms, and as the problem gets worse it starts to run rough at lower rpms to.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by gto19

Have you tried a different coil ?

No, I don't think I have one (unless I pull the one out of my '70 Trans Am). Again, this coil is brand new, but we know how that goes these days...

So a bad coil could also cause the problems am having as well?

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Could be the point contacts are burnt. The over the counter points that are sold these days burn easily, especially when the ballast resistor sends to much voltage to them. The OEM sets in the past were much better, but too much voltage would kill them fairly quickly to. Usually points start missing at the higher rpms, and as the problem gets worse it starts to run rough at lower rpms to.

I asked my buddy at the speed shop and he said that "Points are china junk these days". Are there better quality points available? I sent this distributor out be completely rebuilt, but I have no idea of the quality of the parts used to rebuild it,

[Jay S]

I don’t know of any high quality point available new other than a couple decade old NOS points on eBay.

We don’t run much with points anymore though, and have converted nearly everything to some type of electronic. Have ran at least one MSD box from points and did ok. If I am stuck with a points distributer we generally use a pertronix and keep a old set of points in the glove box in case it fails. Have used pertronix in antique tractors to 12 second 455s. The pertronix seem like they are can erratic if voltage is too high, and just like anything else electronic they need a good ground. I don’t miss wondering what rpm the points are going to act up though.

[chiphead]

Those plugs are pretty dark. I'd change them and the wires unless the wires are new. What heads, compression and plug heat range?

Edit: I see 670 heads. Those plugs are fouled. My 670s never blackened plugs like that with R45S. The Autolite 303s (fairly cold range) would get some color on a nitrous load, but not like that.

I'd take a hard look at the ballast wire or ballast resistor setup and the coil selected. Some coils have an internal resistor and some are designed to be used with an external ballast resistor or resistor wire, and some coils are very low resistance for use with electronic CD ignition. I'd make sure it is all designed to work together. Gap the plugs to .035 to .040". Points inductive ignition has a lower peak plug voltage and longer duration than CD. In english, run a smaller gap with points.

Once the ignition is sorted, go back to fuel. Verify the carb's calibration hasn't wandered off in the grass and fouled the plugs. It should run better once you change the plugs. I'm thinking the plugs fouled out, and changing carbs can't fix that after the fact.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by racerboy

OK. Should I pull the distributor out? OR at least pull the weights and springs? Should I also get a new set of points? Is it possible they are bad (even though new)? Would that cause the running rough?

None of that. LOOK at the distributor, the condenser you're trying to find is probably hiding behind the mainshaft assembly, invisible in the photo you posted.

The weights and springs are not your problem, if they're faulty, it's on the guy who restored your distributor. I don't think there's anything wrong with them, as long as they provide a decent advance curve.

Don't REPLACE the points, TEST the resistance through them. A simple ohmmeter would work. The points have to be CLOSED to test resistance, and the ignition should be off. And verify the dwell, THEN verify the ignition timing. (Not the other way around.)

Originally Posted by racerboy

I was running an octane booster (forget the name - will look in garage alter today). I didn't set up the carb fuel mixture, I assumed that it was done at time of restoration, but could be wrong.

You need to adjust the idle mixture screws for lean "best idle", maybe lean-drop the idle vacuum about 1/4" of vacuum for each of the two screws (1/2" vacuum total) and verify that the choke works PROPERLY.

Originally Posted by gto19

Have you tried a different coil ?

How about TESTING the existing coil?

An ohmmeter and a spark-tester is all that's needed; as this ignition system uses a ballast resistor in the primary circuit, you'd want a spark tester that is not calibrated for HEI ignitions. Check resistance between the two screw terminals, and between either of the screw terminals and the metal case. Check resistance of the coil-wire terminal and either one of the screw terminals, and between the coil wire terminal and the metal case.

Example: (Ignore the crap about "exclusively for small engines", it's not. They're lying.)
https://www.amazon.com/Stens-750-018...764548&sr=8-30

[Formulabruce]

High quality points CAN be bought , if needed or wanted)
By specifying you want MARINE application I know Blue Streak has them. Try a Napa store. Marine electronics are made to a much higher reliability standard.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Those plugs are pretty dark. I'd change them and the wires unless the wires are new. What heads, compression and plug heat range?

Edit: I see 670 heads. Those plugs are fouled. My 670s never blackened plugs like that with R45S. The Autolite 303s (fairly cold range) would get some color on a nitrous load, but not like that.

I'd take a hard look at the ballast wire or ballast resistor setup and the coil selected. Some coils have an internal resistor and some are designed to be used with an external ballast resistor or resistor wire, and some coils are very low resistance for use with electronic CD ignition. I'd make sure it is all designed to work together. Gap the plugs to .035 to .040". Points inductive ignition has a lower peak plug voltage and longer duration than CD. In english, run a smaller gap with points.

Once the ignition is sorted, go back to fuel. Verify the carb's calibration hasn't wandered off in the grass and fouled the plugs. It should run better once you change the plugs. I'm thinking the plugs fouled out, and changing carbs can't fix that after the fact.

Thanks chiphead. I take it form your post that I should grab a set of new plugs as well. Are the R45S plugs what I want? I know the auto parts store down in town has those in stock.

[racerboy]

I don’t know how accurate this old Sears Engine Analyzer is, or even if I hooked it up right, but I attached the green alligator clip to the negative (-) side of the coil and the positive/negative clamps to the battery. I set the Range Selector and Function Selector to ‘Points’. When I switched on the ignition it showed the needle in the ‘Bad’ range for points:



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[steve25]

Here’s another possibility that I just recalled I had happen to a car of mine ages ago, and the car had symptoms just like yours.
I had a spare car at the time that I was starting to restore and it sat outside during a full Summer.
When I started it up after those many months it did so just fine, but could not get out of its own way even on a level driveway due to ignition break down.
After going thru a 2 day long troubleshooting session I found the root cause of the problem.

I Mouse or Mice had partially eaten tru the wire feeding the coil that I had extended into the passenger area and had wired to a kill switch.

The bottom line was that the 5 straind’s of wire that where left unchewed could not pass the current needed to run the motor much above a idle!

This took a long while for me to find out since the wire was passing 12 volts as needed, but only some 30% of the current needed!

Your issue may not be a chewed thru wire, but any crimp on wire connector not done tight enough can make for the same low current feed issue.

[steve25]

If that analysis of the points on that meter is correct then that very high resistance could very well be the root cause of your issue!

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by racerboy

I don’t know how accurate this old Sears Engine Analyzer is, or even if I hooked it up right, but I attached the green alligator clip to the negative (-) side of the coil and the positive/negative clamps to the battery. I set the Range Selector and Function Selector to ‘Points’. When I switched on the ignition it showed the needle in the ‘Bad’ range for points:

Originally Posted by steve25

If that analysis of the points on that meter is correct then that very high resistance could very well be the root cause of your issue!

MAYBE that's the correct procedure for that analyzer.

I would not expect the ignition to be turned on to get a reading on points resistance--but it COULD be wired that way. Looking at the meter face, the "Points" scale seems to be shared with the "Low Volts" scale, indicating that they're using voltage to measure points conductivity rather than resistance. If the points have high resistance, they provide a poor ground for the primary current/voltage, and the voltage is what the machine reads.

The points would have to be closed.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

MAYBE that's the correct procedure for that analyzer.

I would not expect the ignition to be turned on to get a reading on points resistance--but it COULD be wired that way. Looking at the meter face, the "Points" scale seems to be shared with the "Low Volts" scale, indicating that they're using voltage to measure points conductivity rather than resistance. If the points have high resistance, they provide a poor ground for the primary current/voltage, and the voltage is what the machine reads.

The points would have to be closed.

I found the manual for that analyzer and it does say to do what I did.

I took the rotor off again, Is there a better way to check the points?

[racerboy]

Here are the instructions:

[1965gp]

Just out of curiosity, have you pulled the valve covers to see if perhaps there is a broken valve spring? I had that happen once and it still ran, just had a miss.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

Just out of curiosity, have you pulled the valve covers to see if perhaps there is a broken valve spring? I had that happen once and it still ran, just had a miss.

I haven’t, but will do that tomorrow. Thanks!


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