[i82much]

Originally Posted by PontiacFan428

This thread is cracking me up. I don't see why some of you guys are so loyal the Pontiac only engine when Pontiac themselves installed chevy and olds engines in their Pontiac bodies while the engine was still in production??? If Pontiac is loyal to itself why are you guy's so damn loyal?

Most of us got into Pontiacs in the first place because of the performance cars from the early sixties through early 70's, and those cars had Pontiac engines in them. We might be able to appreciate a later Firebird or Trans Am with a 403, TPI 350, or an LS engine, but those cars aren't what got us here in the first place.

Honestly a tri-power 421 in an early GTO with a muncie is, IMHO, the coolest possible drivetrain for a Pontiac. I don't care if your LS makes 1000 HP and gets 40 mpg, I'd take the 421 any day. That's what makes these old cars cool for a lot of us.

[FrankieT/A]

Go find a Pontiac waterpump at your local parts store, or a rocker arm for that matter. lol

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by i82much

Most of us got into Pontiacs in the first place because of the performance cars from the early sixties through early 70's, and those cars had Pontiac engines in them. We might be able to appreciate a later Firebird or Trans Am with a 403, TPI 350, or an LS engine, but those cars aren't what got us here in the first place.

Honestly a tri-power 421 in an early GTO with a muncie is, IMHO, the coolest possible drivetrain for a Pontiac. I don't care if your LS makes 1000 HP and gets 40 mpg, I'd take the 421 any day. That's what makes these old cars cool for a lot of us.

It was the combination of styling and engine...the styling got CLASSIC the engine got ARCHAIC, by todays standards anyway. We all don't have 421 Tri Powers, well not anymore anyway.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

It was the combination of styling and engine...the styling got CLASSIC the engine got ARCHAIC, by todays standards anyway. We all don't have 421 Tri Powers, well not anymore anyway.

i'm pretty happy with my 505 and it's enough like a typical classic muscle car engine that i don't see a need to change. starts up easily, runs well, wouldn't ever consider an EFI conversion, much less an LS engine.

If I had it to do over again, I might have done a 421 tripower instead, but I'm not complaining.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

Go find a Pontiac waterpump at your local parts store, or a rocker arm for that matter. lol

I gave up on that when I found out our local Auto Parts store no longer stocks a water pump for a SBC. I remember when I was a kid, a fellow with a 75 TA had his fuel pump stop working in front of my parents house. My dad drove him to the local parts store and he changed the fuel pump on the street in twenty minutes and was on his way.... Wonder if that could be done on an LS car 🤔

[PontiacFan428]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Not sure but I think the OP asked what is the point of switching to an LS engine... But sometimes these threads go a little bit sideways

Good point. I love my Pontiac and considered "modernizing" it with SFI / COP etc. There's thread on here where a cam sensor, to install in place of the distributor, is $750!!! then factor in the crank trigger setup, aftermarket intake/fuel rails /injectors individual coils etc... OUCH! A day at the pick n pull you can have everything for $300-$400. Of course you'll still need high pressure pump and lines.

Cost and Fuel economy is hard to beat with the LS. I can never get more than 10mpg in my Pontiac but I'm a street strip car with emphasis on strip (450-500hp is my guestimate)

When all my Pontiac parts expire, I'll definitely consider an alternative engine but something tells me that will never happen since I've hoarded so many heads/blocks over the years.

[Tom Vaught]

I know for a fact it can't be done on a 1982 Mustang with a 5.0L engine.

You have to remove the entire FEAD system to get to the thing.

20 minutes and a helpful friend and your pal is back on the road again.

Pontiac Parts are like Flathead Ford Parts. Very Rare at any parts house.

Tom V.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by i82much

i'm pretty happy with my 505 and it's enough like a typical classic muscle car engine that i don't see a need to change. starts up easily, runs well, wouldn't ever consider an EFI conversion, much less an LS engine.

If I had it to do over again, I might have done a 421 tripower instead, but I'm not complaining.

I still have my share of Pontiac powered cars as well as forty years of body parts, engines, blocks and heads, etc.

My next build will be an aluminum 505. I have everything but the short block. But lets face it how much of your 505 is true Pontiac---? None.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

I still have my share of Pontiac powered cars as well as forty years of body parts, engines, blocks and heads, etc.

My next build will be an aluminum 505. I have everything but the short block. But lets face it how much of your 505 is true Pontiac---? None.

my next build may be a dart block 540 in my beater k10. not a real chevy either. i like old cars and trucks because they ride, drive, sound, and smell like old cars and trucks, but i am not a purist. i would not want an LS engine in either, but i love my 6.0 L96 in my 2500HD.

[FrankieT/A]

If you're going BB go to 635 cube, in that territory more doesn't cost that much more. I like big arm.

[Scarebird]

I wondered what could have been the next true Pontiac engine:

Imagine a 301T block with 3.375 stroke crank and 4.5 bore (366 cubes, a sweet spot according to Russ Gee). Round port aluminum heads with efficient heart-shaped combustion chambers, fuel injection (batch fire in the 80's) and coil packs (84-87 GN).

Would have easily fit in a Firebird or Grand Prix. Not sure how a short stroke work work emissions-wise...

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

But lets face it how much of your 505 is true Pontiac---? None.

The LS this thread is about has an aftermarket block, crank, cam... And most everything else

So the question is...
Clay

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

I wondered what could have been the next true Pontiac engine:

Imagine a 301T block with 3.375 stroke crank and 4.5 bore (366 cubes, a sweet spot according to Russ Gee). Round port aluminum heads with efficient heart-shaped combustion chambers, fuel injection (batch fire in the 80's) and coil packs (84-87 GN).

Would have easily fit in a Firebird or Grand Prix. Not sure how a short stroke work work emissions-wise...

Think your math is off a bit there Scarebird.
Using wallace's calculator:

A 3.375 stroke and a 4.5" bore is 429 cid vs your 366 cid number.

Maybe a fat finger there by you.

A 3.375 stroke and a 4.151 bore is 365.22 cid.

I have sold at least 12 of those 366 forged (Kellogg cranks) to Pontiac people over the years that were finished machined by Whitey at Moldex Crankshaft. I sent a forged core to Tom S, but have no idea what he did with it.

Rodney Butler ran two of the cranks in his IA-1 Block many years ago that was about 440 cid. He killed the first one getting a bit greedy
on the cid size.

Tom V.

[Scarebird]

You are correct - work hands =/= typing hands!

How did they run in non-OEM hands?

[Tom Vaught]

If I understand your question correctly, I would say that the majority of these people were into the dirt track wars and ran a Pontiac engine to be different. The stroke allowed them to me a displacement rule. The 366 cranks were 3.375 stroke as you know.

I have a couple of cranks from 366 forgings that were able to be 3.5" stroke cranks and I chose to keep them that stroke. The cranks Rodney ran were even a slight bit more stroke but had poor oiling due to the bearings leaking oil around the rod journals in some thin places. One lived and one died a early death. Rodney beat the crap out of the one that lived.

Most of the cranks I sold went into circle track type vehicles. Like the ones H.B Bailey used to run. Picture attached. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._B._Bailey

He raced for over 27 years with Tom Nell's help.

Tom V.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

The LS 6.0 with rec port and the LS3 have a bigger intake port from the factory than ANY big block ever produced with about half the cubes. Food for thought.

More thoughts on the 260 CC port here. The head design are a different animal regarding "CC".
I shared this back in 2012

65 Buick with salvage yard 365 cubes - PRC stage1 CNC head, mild hyd roller - deep 11's (2012)
http://www.youtube.com/user/speedtigger/videos
This guy has been busy with more mods over the last 9 years.
October 2015 - 403 cube N/A pump gas dyno -- 707HP & 578 Ft. Lbs -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdC_VYG7oAg

57 corvette with another salvage yard 365 - L92 heads - hyd roller = 9.97@134 (2012 info)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY5_U8NSXVo

In 2012 assembled LS3 heads were available for $650 / pair. More than that for a single head now.
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12711770.html

This short block has gone up about $2k since 2012.
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-619-ts...ort-block.aspx

[Scott Roberts]

When talking non-max effort, the LS is hard to beat. It's a great design from top to bottom.
The allure is taking a factory built car i.e. corvette, camero,cadilac or whatever has an LS engine and making it pretty damn stout with little effort.
I have a CTS-V Coupe..its 376ci and came stock with 560hp. What's that...450ish to the tires? With stock bottom end, stock heads, it makes 687hp at the tires now and took little effort to achieve. The cam in this thing is under .525 lift and under 230 duration @50..its a pussycat! Yes, it's super charged but it ain't much..1.9 liter blower... at 60mpg, it blows the tires off...
Those are the things I think draw people to the LS... I personally would never put one in a classic car of any brand.. ruins the car in my opinion but to each his own.

[slowbird]

Got a qiestion about LS heads that maybe someone can answer, what's the csa of the rectangle port heads? I saw someone mention they're big, so just how big are they?

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Got a qiestion about LS heads that maybe someone can answer, what's the csa of the rectangle port heads? I saw someone mention they're big, so just how big are they?

Big enough to skull drag a pump gas Pontiac down the track....so I hear.��
Actually, it around 3.2 at the opening I believe..

[pastry_chef]

Not factory but the AFR LS3 260 cc are stated to have min CSA - 2.875 sq. in.

https://www.airflowresearch.com/260c...cylinder-head/