[Schurkey]

My first Optima was a USA-made unit. Lasted 10-something years of occasional service in a rarely-used car.

Second Optima was a Mexican-made unit. Nothing but problems starting at about 6 months, and enduring for perhaps 11 months before I got fed up. Would go dead and had to be recharged overnight approximately every month. In the meantime, between 6 and 11 months, I replaced alternator and starter (both were original to the vehicle and had closer to 200,000 miles than 100,000 miles on them. Cleaned/checked battery cables. No difference.

Replaced the Optima; problem solved. Haven't had a dead battery on that vehicle ever since.

I used to be pretty enthusiastic about Interstate batteries; I don't think they're as good now as they were twenty--thirty years ago.

Have heard good things about Deka/ East Penn. I've had one or two.

Most recent purchases have been O'Reillys. I don't know who makes them.

[krisr]

Originally Posted by dataway

For about $800 you can get a Lithium Iron battery. Should last ten years. Put one in my hard to start motorcycle that would eat a battery every two years ... spins it over like a cordless drill. ( Smaller ... about $250). Typically don't need any kind of trickle charging, can last the winter no problem. Not to be confused with the Lithium battery chemistry used in phones etc. These don't blow up, they are specially designed for starting, high load, short duration. Plus ... about 60% lighter than lead acid.

As long as it's a Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFEPO4) you'll be good. I just put one in my street car and holy crap, it's unreal! My old acid battery weighed 20kg, the new LiFEPO4 weighs 4kg -- is over 1000cca and is the size of 1/3 of a shoebox. It has battery management internally so it'll shut down if it goes above 15.5V so they can't blow up and catch fire if the regulator dies etc...

Not cheap a cheap solution, but compared to say an Optima, it was just a few bucks more and saved so much weight up front.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by dataway

For about $800 you can get a Lithium Iron battery. Should last ten years. Put one in my hard to start motorcycle that would eat a battery every two years ... spins it over like a cordless drill. ( Smaller ... about $250). Typically don't need any kind of trickle charging, can last the winter no problem. Not to be confused with the Lithium battery chemistry used in phones etc. These don't blow up, they are specially designed for starting, high load, short duration. Plus ... about 60% lighter than lead acid.

Yikes! I think that would be a hard sell at $800. Was that a typo?

I can buy 2 regular batteries that I get 5 years a piece out of for $240
Even if one went bad prematurely and I paid full price for another one (not likely if warrantied) that's still only $360 invested over a 10 year period.

I do like the 60 percent lighter though if I could disguise it as a stock appearing battery. I suspect it's small and doesn't fit the tray? If so I could put in a gutted stock size case.

[dataway]

I "think" they might make them in normal vehicle sizes. I would only consider it a good solution in two situations ... long periods with no charging, or hard to start engine. As krisr mentioned ... they spin over an engine like you wouldn't believe.

I was paying $200 each for quality Yuasa batteries for my Honda RC51 every two years, and even fully charged you would have about three attempts to start the engine and they were done. With this LiFEPO4 battery you could put it in gear, hit the starter button and drive on the starter if you wanted to So in my case the $250 was worth it.

Lke krisr mentioned, it has onboard battery management that protects it pretty well.

After looking at the brand I bought (EarthX) it appears the largest is like 6x6x6, about 13 pounds, 800 CCA something like 1600 PCA. So yes, quite small. Prices I was quoting look like they were for their aircraft batteries ... so maybe $500.

They don't have nearly the voltage drop during starting that a lead acid battery does, which is why they turn the engine over so nicely.

Losing 40 lbs in the front corner of the car would be nice

PS: Here is a random brand I found on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Powertex-Batt...47c48c32f&th=1

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by chevymad

Are the battery warranty's changing everywhere else? Our napa batteries just switched to a 2 year free replacement, no pro-rating. After 2 years no more warranty. We were told the industry is switching to this.

Most of the industry made the change to eliminate the pro-rata warranty before I left the business (ACDelco territory manager) back in 2018. I think ACD made the change around 2015.

Why? Because most consumers thought (incorrectly) that a 5 year warranty was full replacement, not pro-rata. Interstate batteries was sued over the pro-rata warranty over 10 years ago.

"With each battery it sells, Interstate provides a “Limited Warranty,” which entitles Interstate customers to purchase a replacement battery at a prorated charge based upon the number of months the original battery lasted. Other retailers use the suggested retail price (or the price the consumer paid) as the price to be prorated. Interstate, however, calculates the monthly credit based upon an inflated “List Price,” which is not mentioned in Interstate’s Warranty, is about 20 percent higher than Interstate’s suggested retail price, and is even higher still than the price at which the batteries are typically sold."

In most cases, once you enter the pro-rata portion of the warranty (usually 12 - 18 months), the consumer really didn't receive much value.

ACD batteries have full replacement warranties ranging from 24 - 42 months, depending on the battery purchased.

To me, the longer full replacement warranty is more consumer friendly and much easier to understand.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by dataway

I "think" they might make them in normal vehicle sizes. I would only consider it a good solution in two situations ... long periods with no charging, or hard to start engine. As krisr mentioned ... they spin over an engine like you wouldn't believe.

I was paying $200 each for quality Yuasa batteries for my Honda RC51 every two years, and even fully charged you would have about three attempts to start the engine and they were done. With this LiFEPO4 battery you could put it in gear, hit the starter button and drive on the starter if you wanted to So in my case the $250 was worth it.

Lke krisr mentioned, it has onboard battery management that protects it pretty well.

After looking at the brand I bought (EarthX) it appears the largest is like 6x6x6, about 13 pounds, 800 CCA something like 1600 PCA. So yes, quite small. Prices I was quoting look like they were for their aircraft batteries ... so maybe $500.

They don't have nearly the voltage drop during starting that a lead acid battery does, which is why they turn the engine over so nicely.

Losing 40 lbs in the front corner of the car would be nice

PS: Here is a random brand I found on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Powertex-Batt...47c48c32f&th=1

Wow, and that's a group 24. I'll do some more digging. Bet there are group 78's out there too. I do like the punch the smaller size packs though.
Easy to hide that in a stock gutted battery.

[SRR]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Most of the industry made the change to eliminate the pro-rata warranty before I left the business (ACDelco territory manager) back in 2018. I think ACD made the change around 2015.

Why? Because most consumers thought (incorrectly) that a 5 year warranty was full replacement, not pro-rata. Interstate batteries was sued over the pro-rata warranty over 10 years ago.

"With each battery it sells, Interstate provides a “Limited Warranty,” which entitles Interstate customers to purchase a replacement battery at a prorated charge based upon the number of months the original battery lasted. Other retailers use the suggested retail price (or the price the consumer paid) as the price to be prorated. Interstate, however, calculates the monthly credit based upon an inflated “List Price,” which is not mentioned in Interstate’s Warranty, is about 20 percent higher than Interstate’s suggested retail price, and is even higher still than the price at which the batteries are typically sold."

In most cases, once you enter the pro-rata portion of the warranty (usually 12 - 18 months), the consumer really didn't receive much value.

ACD batteries have full replacement warranties ranging from 24 - 42 months, depending on the battery purchased.

To me, the longer full replacement warranty is more consumer friendly and much easier to understand.

Pro-rate on a battery does nothing but anger the customer because they think when they plop it down on the counter that they are walking out with a free battery. Nope. I have yet to see a pro-rate over $50.00 New batteries are now around $200. for a 3 year free replacement. I do like AGM batteries and anybody who has had to replace a battery tray or inner fender should too. Most batteries are only going to last 3-4 years maybe a little longer if you keep them clean and charged. Optimas are NOT what they used to be. I see them failing around 3-4 years, I've warrantied some that tested bad at a year old. The AC Delco ones we sell only have an 18 month warranty.

[ZeGermanHam]

Just FYI, O'Reilly Auto is currently running a 20% off promotion for online ship-to-home orders of $125 or greater. Although the deal excludes lead-acid batteries, you can get the discount on an AGM battery. I just ordered an Optima Redtop this morning and got $50 off, which brought the cost down to within $40 of a house brand (Super Start) lead-acid battery. Promo code is "FALL20".

[hurryinhoosier62]

My wife’s ‘14 Camaro went through three AGM batteries in one year. The problem was identified as shorting in the right quarter panel body electrical plug. Who would have thought that GM would use a water soluble di-electric grease to insulate an underbody connector….

[Brentco]

It seems like typical off-the-shelf batteries have had a lot of quality issues in recent years.

I run the ODYSSEY 65-PC1750T AGM battery. 990 CCA. It’s not cheap, but I don’t want to mess with battery issues, and so far so good. I like having loads of cranking power and deep discharge. Also need the extra juice for my 15” sub. . . .

[Trevor78]

A bit like replacement headlights, they may work great, but geez some of them are ugly.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I had 3 lead acid car batts reveal weak starting last year. An Eye-opener. Used to get 10-years in the 455 Pontiacs with Hi-TQ Delco Starters. 2-year life is an embarrasing indicator.

My study on car Batts showed differing brands had identical case molds for same case size, like a Diehard, even the old batts that crapped, So I gave up on Batt quality and bought whatever Silver-grade in O'Rielly'sAdvancedZone sold.

Notable hopefuls (but not for me); Braille, AC-Delco, and all thee above.


$15-$18 core return at Advanced autoZone means the yard sale core for a dollar is a wise buy,

[Schurkey]

All the ACDelco batteries I see are either S. Korean or Communist Chinese. If there's a "better" product line for ACD, I don't know about it.

[Tim Corcoran]

I have had good luck with Interstate batteries purchased from COSTCO and not one can come close to the price for an equivalent battery.

[mgarblik]

What timing. The 2012 Delco Freedom battery in my 62 Catalina finally died this weekend. I have no idea why it lasted 10 years. As a NAPA master dealer, I get good pricing on their batteries. Black case Legend batteries, however are now being sourced from at least 2 suppliers. Johnson Controls, and East Penn. One has a smooth top and the other has the two removeable lids. I prefer the flat top for the looks but you can't choose. In this new world order of "supply chain issues", you have to take what they can get for you. As mentioned, they have a 2 year free replacement warranty only, no pro-rata structure anymore. That never amounted to much after the 2 years anyway.

I would buy another Freedom battery but they are very hard to source around here. New car dealers are not interested in selling a group 24 battery for a 60 year old car and look at you like your some kind of alien if you go to buy one there. Then charge you double the cost of a NAPA battery. IMO, the DELCO batteries are a quality product though.

[Half-Inch Stud]

If i could modify the old GM Alternator's internal Voltage Regulator to match the Li-Ion Battery, i would:

Buy the Li-Ion, and keep the Lead-acid on a trickle-charge, with a power select switch for use in Winter temps.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I would buy another Freedom battery but they are very hard to source around here. New car dealers are not interested in selling a group 24 battery for a 60 year old car and look at you like your some kind of alien if you go to buy one there. Then charge you double the cost of a NAPA battery. IMO, the DELCO batteries are a quality product though.

Yep, that's been my problem for years. They don't generally stock a group 24 or 78 and they think your crazy for driving a 60 year old car and coming to a dealer looking for parts. Too high priced from the dealer anyway.
I always ran them for years though when I could buy them at the local Hamlet Auto Parts and it wasn't unusual that I would sometimes get 10 years out of one. Had that happen more than once. So no complaints, it's just that there aren't any mom and pop or chain auto stores around that even carry AC Delco batteries here.

I've had excellent luck for the last 15 years buying Interstate from Costco. They are black, nice flat tops, accept a battery topper, and they fit like they should. However I've never had one go 10 years like the Delco. A dozen cars here with them now and they all seem to die almost right on time. When they reach 5 years old I haven't had one make it past 6. In fact it's become almost like clockwork.

[jhein]

About 35 years ago I had a buddy call me up, he had a dead battery and he was broke. I had an old Interstate battery sitting on a shelf. It was from a POS Dodge 2.2 liter motor, so it was a small battery. My buddies car was a '67 Cutlass with a 330 and a Turboglide. It was a true survivor and was actually a pretty cool car. Anyway, I told him I had the battery but it had been sitting on the shelf for about a year or more and had not been maintained and I didn't think that little battery would crank his car but we could give it a try. So I went over and put it in and it spun it right over like nothing. I still can't believe it.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

All the ACDelco batteries I see are either S. Korean or Communist Chinese. If there's a "better" product line for ACD, I don't know about it.

The Advantage line of ACDelco - that's their entry level battery (also the cheapest) - is produced in Korea. The old, "you get what you pay for" adage applies here. ACDelco has this line to be price competitive with the "Brand X" batteries carried by many retail locations. It has the 18 month full replacement warranty.

See image at the link below showing the Advantage, Professional Gold and Silver batteries for a Chevy Cruze.

https://www.cruzetalk.com/threads/cr...-specs.245990/


I've been to the Johnson Control's battery plant in St. Joseph, MO where the Professional line of ACDelco (gold and silver line) batteries are produced.. Last time I checked, MO is still in the United States. The Gold has a 42 month full replacement warranty and the Silver has a 30 month.

As you can see from the link, the most important spec of a battery (the reserve capacity) is much higher on the Gold and Silver line.

Most people think that the cold cranking amp rating is important, but it really isn't as most all batteries come with more CCA's than needed. A rule of thumb is that you need 1 CCA for every cubic inch of displacement, so for the 1.8L Chevy Cruze in the above image, 110 CCA's would be sufficient. How many people drive a vehicle with 525 cubic inches (the lowest rating of CCA's of all three batteries)?

I wouldn't purchased anything but a Professional line battery from ACDelco.

[dataway]

Don't know what it is with batteries these days ... seems like even within the same brand you get identical batteries, one lasts ten years, the other two years. OEM battery in my 2001 GMC was good when I sold it ten years later, my 2011 GMC OEM battery died after three years, and now it's on it's third battery. I've had NAPA Legends last forever, and last a couple of years.
Seems like 40 years ago you bought a Die Hard and they all lasted ten years.