[Oldgoatnuts]

I completely rebuilt the front suspension on my 65 LeMans. New control arm bushings, ball joints, springs, shocks, tie rods, idler arm, the works. At the same time, I installed a Right Stuff disc brake conversion kit.

My tires are now leaned in at the top way too far. I took out the shims to push the upper control arms out but it isn't enough. I wanted the ride height more old school (higher than stock) so I ordered springs for a station wagon with a/c.

It looks to me that if I were to put taller upper ball joints in it that it would improve the situation because the beefier springs have the uppers almost touching the frame and it looks like the ball joint is almost pointing inward which pulls the top of the spindle in.

It seems like the reading I've done so far indicates that tall upper ball joints increase negative camber. Is this true? Would taller ball joints help or hurt my situation?

Thanks,
Mike

[Schurkey]

Taller upper ball joints will lift the outer end of the upper control arms, which will increase the negative camber.

[Lemans64]

Moog sells offset upper control arm shaft to help with too much negative camber. This was to compensate for sagged frame, ( rolled in at top) I have the box in the shop if you want the number. Not sure on how much difference it made as I put them in right away.

[Goatracer1]

I had the "old school" look on my 1965 GTO when it wasn't old school. We used a spacer between the upper ball joint and the knuckle. It was offset so it could be turned to set caster also. Don't know if they are still available new but someone might have an old set.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by Lemans64

Moog sells offset upper control arm shaft to help with too much negative camber. This was to compensate for sagged frame, ( rolled in at top) I have the box in the shop if you want the number. Not sure on how much difference it made as I put them in right away.

They are called "Problem solvers"

[Oldgoatnuts]

Thanks everyone for the information, I wasn't aware that anyone made offset control arm shafts.

[Schurkey]

I am reminded (Geoff, Australia) that if the upper control arms are tilted "down" at the outer end compared to the design angle, taller ball joints could level the control arms, reducing negative camber.

So it depends on the current angle of the the control arms, outer vs. inner end of the arm(s).

If the control arm is tilted down at the outer end, the camber curve will be horrible and the control arm may bottom-out when the wheel drops into a pothole. My El Camino was set-up with tall springs when I bought it. It had hit the upper bump stops so often and so hard that the upper control arms were cracked from the impact. I had to replace the upper bump-stops because they were either missing or destroyed (I forget which--too many years.)

May need to consider taller ball joints (to get the upper arms off the bump-stops), AND offset shafts--then add the shims back in to fine-tune the caster and the camber.

[HWYSTR455]

Obviously, what threw everything out of whack is the springs, and raising the front ride height. The suspension is at the end of it's travel, and the wheel moves in an arc through that travel. If you do anything to correct the free standing condition, it will make it worse as it travels through it's arc, and it will drive like crap.

You have 2 options, fix it, or deal with it driving like crap.

If you choose dealing with it, you have to consider that the ball joint will be at it's limit of movement, and you run the risk of it breaking/sheering off.

A better option would be to use taller body bushing in the front maybe, you would get the look that way, but you would have to deal with fender/door gaps.

.

[Oldgoatnuts]

I was thinking getting offset cross shafts and taller ball joints. By the time I do, I'll have a couple of hundred bucks into it. I'm now thinking of doing this and be done:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/upi-4056-3-b

[HWYSTR455]

Important notes: The UMI 4056-3 upper a-arm is designed to work primarily with lowered cars. We do not recommend using the 4056-3 with cargo coils or above stock height cars, as the bump stop may contact the cross brace. UMI is not responsible for fitment issues which may arise from using incompatible components.

http://umiperformance.com/catalog/in...roducts_id=761

Maybe you should call UMI or some other a-body suspension tuner, tell them what you're trying to accomplish, and see what they think your options are. Or call several suspension places.

.

[Oldgoatnuts]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Important notes: The UMI 4056-3 upper a-arm is designed to work primarily with lowered cars. We do not recommend using the 4056-3 with cargo coils or above stock height cars, as the bump stop may contact the cross brace. UMI is not responsible for fitment issues which may arise from using incompatible components.

http://umiperformance.com/catalog/in...roducts_id=761 t

Maybe you should call UMI or some other a-body suspension tuner, tell them what you're trying to accomplish, and see what they think your options are. Or call several suspension places.

.

I already did, they said that they will work. I'm not sure why they put that warning in the notes. Thanks for looking out for potential problems.

[Lemans64]

This is the kit I used.



http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-k5250

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

They are called "Problem solvers"

[Blued and Painted]

Move to the manufacturer ride hight.

[chrisp]

Use Global west # 702 shaft

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Lemans64

Moog sells offset upper control arm shaft to help with too much negative camber. This was to compensate for sagged frame, ( rolled in at top) I have the box in the shop if you want the number. Not sure on how much difference it made as I put them in right away.

X2

A common issue with 50+ year old cars.

The frame under the oil pan tends to sag downward and the side rails move inward which causes the upper A-Arms to move inward.
All of this causes more negative camber.

So the fix is the offset A-arm shafts with shaft offset to the outside.
That puts the control arms bushings (and upper ball joint) closer to where they really need to be.

One other option is the totally adjustable type upper links to the ball joint mount.
A lot more tear-up that the offset shafts might easily fix.

Tom V.