[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by dataway

Well .. finally, I've kinda started on an actual 1/10th scale model of a 68 GTO.

Don't forget the suds ...




Frank

[dataway]

Scale on that beer seems about perfect

[242177P]

Originally Posted by dataway

Scale on that beer seems about perfect

Don't fall for it.

[3X24SPD]

I did this one about 12 years ago, just goofing around one day.
FDM/ABS @ .010" layer resolution.

[dataway]

That's real close to what I'd be looking at.
I'll probably print the drafts at about 0.010" ( .24mm) and the final prints at about 0.006" (.16mm). Probably with a 0.4mm nozzle ( .015").

The example photos above were printed with 0.4mm nozzle and 0.2mm layer height.

I'd be happy with your level of detail. Smallest detail (real life size) I could capture would be around 1/10th inch vertically, and about 1/8" horizontally. So scale size of 0.010" and 0.0125"

I don't see the printing being as much problem as the CAD modeling work.

I've done some pretty detailed modeling .. like the Ruger below ... but in that case I had the item right in my hand to measure. Doing things like engine blocks, frames, bodies with their complex shapes and details will be a chore.

[3X24SPD]

You're right.

The CAD work, depending on the intricacies of the model geometry- is not really so much of a problem- but it is the most time consuming.
But the design work really is the fun part, and most rewarding personally.
I modeled those TriPower carbs many years ago by just measuring real parts manually with a set of digital calipers.

However, I would advise that your easiest method by far with a project like this- is to just buy a scanner and scan the actual parts- then stitch the mesh A/R.
Scanners for the hobbyist are fairly inexpensive these days.

Converting the part file to an .stl, exporting to the slicing software- then sending it to the printer and waiting for the part to complete is the easy part.

Post processing is then another consideration for you- depending on how far you want to go to make the part look real.
Sanding, painting, media blasting, vapor smoothing, ultrasonic cleaning, etc are all viable methods to get to the target appearance/surface finish.

With your project, a limiting factor will most tcertainly be the build constraints of the machine you are using- for the larger parts.
Unless you plan to section the block/crank/heads/manifolds/etc- and build them as sub-assemblies.
That's easy to do though.

I can do about 16" X 16" X 16" with my stuff- but I'm debating the purchase of another larger FDM 900MC this year.
That one will do about 36".

Debating I say, because among other options- I'm now also considering a novel new approach at 3D Printing high density multilayer PCBs.

[3X24SPD]

Originally Posted by dataway

That's real close to what I'd be looking at.
I'll probably print the drafts at about 0.010" ( .24mm) and the final prints at about 0.006" (.16mm). Probably with a 0.4mm nozzle ( .015").

The example photos above were printed with 0.4mm nozzle and 0.2mm layer height.

I'd be happy with your level of detail. Smallest detail (real life size) I could capture would be around 1/10th inch vertically, and about 1/8" horizontally. So scale size of 0.010" and 0.0125"

I don't see the printing being as much problem as the CAD modeling work.

I've done some pretty detailed modeling .. like the Ruger below ... but in that case I had the item right in my hand to measure. Doing things like engine blocks, frames, bodies with their complex shapes and details will be a chore.

Nice piece!
I'm not sure if I've posted this one before on this forum.
This one is 3D Printed, fully functional, and dead accurate.

[Stuart]

I watched a video some time ago of a fellow 3D printing a set of titanium headers for a race car. It required a very expensive machine that could print directly to metal but the technology was very impressive.

[dataway]

Yes it was about ten years ago the first functional Metal printed 45 auto came out (solid corporation?), I'm sure they've come a long way since then ... I know the US Military is using Metal printed parts in some of their very high end gear now.

3X24SPD ... at 1/10 scale I can print the scale equivalent of about an 9 foot part ( about 10.8" on the print bed) with one printer, and smaller, like 6 foot equivalent on the other printer (better quality).

I think the only things I'll have to break up into parts is the frame and the body shell. I wouldn't attempt the body shell in one piece anyway.

As for finishing .... well I bore with that rapidly Kind of why I'm starting on the mechanicals. We'll see how I feel about it in a few years.

I'm also kind of depending on consumer technology to improve at the same pace it is now, heck we may see 4 or 5 axis FDM machines in a couple of years.

I made up and printed this model to see how well my printer would print un-supported 45 degree overhangs, it's about 2" square, I think it did pretty good.

Stuart, yep, if you have a few hundred thousand bucks lying around the metal printing machines are amazing ... all the rage in Formula One right now.

[dataway]

Basic 400 engine model is starting to take shape.

Real pain in the butt. With no technical drawings of the engine out in the wild I have to find images of gaskets and scale them in AutoCad to a known dimension (like the bore size) or a measurable dimension like valve cover bolt holes center to center etc.

Then scale it all down 90% and try to use the results to create the solids in the model. Works good for some things, but without the spare parts most of you have I can't go down and measure a bare block, cylinderhead etc. So a lot is having to be extrapolated from photos and gasket dimensions.

But .. when it comes to other parts of the car the 69 assembly manual provides a lot of hard dimensions I can work with for frame, body, suspension etc.

[Shiny]

You set a high bar for yourself but seem to be over-achieving again.

That's a very ambitious project and I again admire and envy your skills.

The detail is already impressive!

I'm curious if there are now tools (I won't make the mistake of using the term "AI" on this website again ) that could do some of the work for you by generating 3D models from 2D images? I've seen that type of thing for faces, but as a novelty. I have to believe the CAD/CAM industry already made this a thing...

If Google can digitize the planet, why not a Pontiac?

[dataway]

Yes that technology exists now ... called Photogrametry. But, it's very hinky, requires a lot of photos at various angles of an identical object. It's basically a poor man's 3D scanner. Works acceptably for organic things like a person's face, or the exterior of a car if the photos are taken at the appropriate angles, lighting and background, but for detailed models it would probably require more work cleaning up the output than it would modeling from scratch.

Within reason I'm trying to create a dimensionally correct model .. say within a 1/2" error on the whole engine. The upside to doing the modeling is that I can go back at any time and modify the original model to be more accurate, or more detailed.

If anyone here is a fan of plastic scale models I'd love to see what the model makers considered an reasonable facsimile of a Pontiac engine. The 1/24 scale model makers had a way with representing the important aspects of an object without getting into too much detail.

Somewhere I have draw the line between detail and the work required to achieve it.

In the next day or two I'll be printing out what I have so far to see how it translates into a "real world" model.

[Shiny]

That makes sense, thanks!

As you say, 1/24 scale models don't have that level of detail.

One of my too many projects is assembling plastic models of cars I have owned. I'm not too far into it but do have a couple unassembled Pontiac kits I can photograph if it will help you understand their philosophy.

[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I can photograph if it will help you understand their philosophy.

Long as there's no 'AI' involved ...


Frank

[Shiny]

I can neither confirm nor deny...

[LastoftheThinkers]

Originally Posted by dataway

I've got the first piece ... 68 AM radio knob. Modeled in Inventor. "Life Size" CAD model, no scaling, mic'ed up an OEM piece.

Only 10,000 more parts to go ... so everyone start modeling

Good start would be finding the CAD models that the plastic model builders use to mold their models.

This is amazing work. Especially with small parts that nobody is willing to reproduce. I would look around and see what is not being reproduced within the community. There is a pretty decent sized market for that stuff. Do you have a website setup yet?

[Shiny]

These are from a 1/24 Testors 69 Judge model my son gave me. It is probably more detailed than some, but not even close to what you are achieving.

Post your parts when you print them! I suspect you are going "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

[dataway]

Shiny ... thanks a ton! That's very helpful.

The oil pan, starter and bell housing don't look half bad.

That will definitely give me an idea how far I need to go. I bet assembled it looks pretty accurate at a glance.

[dataway]

Here is the first assembled test print. Still quite a few details to add, and some size corrections to make thanks to John at Wallace Racing for some accurate measurements.

Actually looks better in real life. I picked a metallic blue for the engine that was as close as I could get to the 68 color in a quick search (there are thousands of colors to choose from). I'm waiting to get in some "chrome" filament for parts like the valves covers and air cleaner lid. I'll have a couple of different silver/gray colors for steel, aluminum and cast iron.

Mostly what I'm working on right now is making sure the parts fit together, and creating locating features for parts so they go into proper alignment for gluing.

The intake will be a challenge. Heads still need spark plug hole/recesses, block needs proper oil pump pad and some corrections to the bell housing bolt holes. Distributor will be pushing the limits of the detail I can get.

Still trying to decide whether to model the crank ... just for fun since it won't be seen, or just use a straight shaft.

Some details I have to exaggerate just to get them to show up in the print.
No idea how I'm going to model the fan in a way that will actually print.

I've used a fine Sharpie to bring out some details.
Thanks for the encourage and info, it helps.

LastoftheThinkers .... no plans to sell anything, while I can 3D model a lot of the parts nicely ... actually producing them I can't do 90% of the time.

[Shiny]

That is impressive. Nicely done, hope it motivates you to continue!

This is 1/10 scale, correct? So the block is maybe 2.5" long? That's a much larger part than a 1/24 model so the detail will add a LOT.

Very cool that you are approaching it from a parts approach and not just modeling assemblies.

Mike