[wbnapier]

Since engine is out of the car, transfer it from the cradle to a regular engine stand, then take both the pan and timing cover off. Clean everything, then reinstall with new gaskets and sealant where needed.

Follow correct torque requirements for everything.

From reading your comments, this may put you out of your comfort zone, but maybe you can find someone to help that lives nearby?

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

Since engine is out of the car, transfer it from the cradle to a regular engine stand, then take both the pan and timing cover off. Clean everything, then reinstall with new gaskets and sealant where needed.

Follow correct torque requirements for everything.

From reading your comments, this may put you out of your comfort zone, but maybe you can find someone to help that lives nearby?

THIS^^^^. Shortcuts never work out in the long run. The engine is out of the car. Do it once and do it right and forget about it.

[Joe's Garage]

My suggestion would be to take it back to whoever you had to the re-ring job and have them pull the pan and timing cover, clean out the pan, helicoil the fuel pump bolts on the timing cover, put it back together and smoke-test it again.

It's only money and it will buy you a ton of peace-of-mind.

Good luck!

[gtorich]

Joe, i thought of that, money wasnt a issue.........i took the motor to him in Sept of last year 8 months is a little long to wait............if i would have been smart i would have bulter build a motor..........they said about a year.

Got the spare block off my stand..............so im almost ready to throw it on the other stand............thinking thats enough for one day.

Tried the sucking with the shop vac for about an hour, as much fun as that was, i went and bought a bore scope, fooled around with that for a hour............didnt see anything, that fuel pump hole is only so big you know.

Im not uncomfortable pulling the motor apart, this will be the 3rd time i did that............i just never put a oil pan on one.........or the timing cover..........little parnoid of screwing something up there and having to do it again. Getting to old to play that game.............i do appreciate all the help im getting from you guys, im gonna get this done yet.

Rich

[gtorich]

Ok, here is where im at now...........im assuming this is a stock pan, it was on the car when i got it.............you can see where he put extra goop on the front ends, and it you can see it, on the balancer at the 50 degree mark it looks like the pan is bent up some, that normal or what. lol

Not sure if i should put some form of cork gasket up there, wont know anything untill tomorrow............its miller time for me now.

Thanks for hanging in there with me guys.

Rich

[gtorich]

Pics might help..........

[grivera]

That pan rail definitely bent - like someone pried on it to separate the seal with the bottom of the timing cover. Nothing a hammer and dolly couldn’t fix. The builder should have made sure it was true before putting it on- typically that would be dry fit before final install.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by grivera

That pan rail definitely bent - like someone pried on it to separate the seal with the bottom of the timing cover. Nothing a hammer and dolly couldn’t fix. The builder should have made sure it was true before putting it on- typically that would be dry fit before final install.

Got the pan off, and found my lost tape.........noticed after getting the one piece gasket off, think thats wrecked now with all the silcone that was on it...........seems like alot of silicone in the cornors from the pics........not sure .

Im gonna try to fix the pan up.............but i noticed most of the pan holes dont line up well unless you force them to line up...........im thinking of getting studs instead of the bolts.

Was thinking of getting a re-po oil pan...........seems from what im reading, there nothing to brag about.

little nerves over this one piece............i dont have the slits in my pan, but was thinking shouldnt you have some silcone over the top of the crankshaft gasket where he cut the tangs off...............im wondering if you couldnt use the one piece gasket, and also a thick piece of cork over the crankshaft...........probably not explaining that right.

[chuckies76ta]

I have a new Canton I’ll sell you 15-452

[grivera]

An aftermarket replacement pan will fit decent. I’ve used the one-piece gasket several times and mostly like it minus the rubber piece that goes over the cap. I prefer thick cork in that area.

[wh33lman]

Originally Posted by grivera

An aftermarket replacement pan will fit decent. I’ve used the one-piece gasket several times and mostly like it minus the rubber piece that goes over the cap. I prefer thick cork in that area.

This is exactly where I am at...

I have a Butler One-piece that is missing the rubber 3-prong section over the rear.

Consensus seems to be not to use the rubber 3-prong gasket, but use the thick cork gasket. I assume I should silicone the cork to the rear main cap first, then the ends where it meets the 1-piece gasket. My block has studs for the oil pan.

[steve25]

That gasket with the molded rib and the bolt hole inserts to not let the gasket crush too much is the best type to use.

You need the added gasket sealer in the transition areas just as a safety move.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by wh33lman

This is exactly where I am at...

I have a Butler One-piece that is missing the rubber 3-prong section over the rear.

Consensus seems to be not to use the rubber 3-prong gasket, but use the thick cork gasket. I assume I should silicone the cork to the rear main cap first, then the ends where it meets the 1-piece gasket. My block has studs for the oil pan.

The last BOP one-piece gasket I bought had 5 prongs in the rear area - it was cut prongs off depending on pan style. Nevertheless, with the cork, yes, glue to cap first. Cliff R has a really good pic of how he sets it up - http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...95&postcount=6

[geeteeohguy]

The only thing I see that's 'wrong' is the pan rail was not peened back flat in front.

The pan holes should line up...what is the pan hitting? Oil pickup? Windage tray? It should drop right on. If you have to spring it into place, it will be under tension and load and leak down the road.

[wh33lman]

Originally Posted by grivera

Nevertheless, with the cork, yes, glue to cap first. Cliff R has a really good pic of how he sets it up - http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...95&postcount=6

Yes , I see what he has done there. I wonder how thick it is ? The cork piece that comes with the Felpro kit appears to be much thicker.

To fix the pan rails, I use a thick bolt as a drift to tap down the bolt holes flush. Then I get a piece of wood to fit in the pan's flange, approximately 1/2" wide by 1/4" thick. Then use pliers to bend the flange flush to the block...using a feeler gauge to ensure it has no gaps. This way you do not damage the pan

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

The only thing I see that's 'wrong' is the pan rail was not peened back flat in front.

The pan holes should line up...what is the pan hitting? Oil pickup? Windage tray? It should drop right on. If you have to spring it into place, it will be under tension and load and leak down the road.

Wow, what else is going on with this pan, not sure how i can test whats hitting without dropping more junk in the motor...........this is what started my mess.

The one piece gasket i got from BOP, dont know if thats different than the one butler sells, im thinking mine had the 3 tabs in back, but the builder cut them off since my oil pan didnt have the slits.

Will look into this tomorrow.

Thanks

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

The only thing I see that's 'wrong' is the pan rail was not peened back flat in front.

The pan holes should line up...what is the pan hitting? Oil pickup? Windage tray? It should drop right on. If you have to spring it into place, it will be under tension and load and leak down the road.

Ok, took a quick look at this, seems the windage tray is hitting it some, not sure how im gonna bend that thing in............thinking if using a hammer its just gonna bounce back, seems the only way to get the tray off is to remove the oil pump.........whats next. lol

Just so were on the right page here, the pan rail in the front should be touching all around ............to me it looks like the rail needs to be hit downward looking at it as it sits........

Im taking it you guys are using the one piece, but cutting it where i have it marked on the pic, then using the cork gasket.

Rich

[tooski]

When I did my 406 the original windage tray was compromised so I installed the Tomahawk one from Butler. It is a tight fit compared to the original. The pan bolts on one side lined up, the other did not. I used a chunk of wood to apply pressure to the pan while I installed the bolts . I can't remember if it was just the couple in your pic or a couple more. No leaks in that area. BOP one piece.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Just my $.02 but it's hard enough to get a valve cover with 4 bolts to seal up. An oil pan with badly deformed rails is that much harder. Order an OEM replacement oil pan with tab slots and a new BOP one-piece gasket and do it right.

Dry fit your oil pan with gasket first to check for windage tray interference (oil pan bolts won't star on both sides). In some cases, you can loosen the windage tray bolts and "center" the windage tray as the mounting bolt holts are slightly oversize and the tray may have "walked" to one side when the builder was tightening it down. If that doesn't work, you'll have to "peen" the windage tray for oil pan bolt access. A tap with a hammer and a drift at each oil pan bolt hole is sometimes required.

Degrease and scuff all the gasket surfaces and glue the gasket to the pan making sure you have sealed the outside corners of the rails where the gasket surface follows the contours of the main cap and timing cover. Apply sealant to the block only to the inside corners and up and over rear main and the inside corners where the block and timing cover meet.

In the long run, you'll be glad you spent the time and money to do a first-class installation.

[steve25]

If you go for a new pan then cut your old pan in half lengthwise so you use it to check clearance issues.

I have found the having such on hand can be very very handy at times!

20 minutes with a cut off disc is all it takes.