[redbird68]

Mornin all!

I had an electrical fire in kitchen last week that i put out with a typical ABC fire extinguisher....did the job but quite a mess from the powder.
Made me inventory my extinguishers....some had moved to 'recharge' just from sitting.
I will be getting a few new ABC 3-A, 40BC's for around the house, but I am looking at Element 50's for the garage. They look good to me, wondering if anyone has experience with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwzZJInS40g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yC01NR139A

Small size is great, never expire, safe for your engine and wiring is how they are advertised.

[wbnapier]

Former fire marshal here.

General home: Yes, ABC good around the house. Also, water ones, known at PW extinguishers. We carried them on all our apparatus. Only good for A class fires (solids).

Kitchen: K Class for cooking fires.

Garage: You can have ABC, but remember not use on an engine. It will work, but mess up the engine due to residue.

A halon extinguisher, which is BC, works great in engine bays and leaves no residue. They have been banned for most applications due to environmental damage, but there is likely a replacement product. Not sure what it is.

Note: In my experience, so many extinguishers fail to work when needed from age, corrosion, etc. From my memory, all extinguishers needed to be serviced (recharged / replaced) and tagged annually for businesses.

[redbird68]

Thanks
What I am seeing is halon has been replaced with halotron, might be just as good i do not know. I agree halon is good for engines, halotron probably is as well.
The halotron ones i am seeing for sale are around $200, Element 50's are around $80 and show a ABCK rating.

I am willing to spend the 200 if need be but I need at least 2.....cheap insurance I know compared to fire damage.

If the Elements work well though I like their features...never lose a charge.

2 of the 4 ABC's i had in the house had lost charge from just sitting. I am lucky the one i grabbed still worked. definitely an eye opener.

[wbnapier]

I forgot about CO2 extinguishers, they would be great for an engine too! Less money than a halon analog.

But, in an enclosed space, be careful, you can suffocate yourself.

I never heard of or saw a ABCK extinguisher in field.

Yes, I think that most extinguishers in peoples' garages sit for years and are useless, even if the gauge shows charged.

[redbird68]

Chart comparing different types of fire extinguishers:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/30...g?v=1614303753

I do not think elements have been around very long. Maybe there is a reason they have not become mainstream yet. They appear to have many advantages but maybe there is a down side?

[Greg Reid]

wbnapier, my wife and I used to have a restaurant and we've got about four or five old fire extinguishers around here. How can they be tested by me at home?

[wbnapier]

Hello Greg,

I am unaware of anyone doing a refill and recharge at home independently. We had a list of local companies that would do it. Some had a mobile set up where others had a shop.

From my memory, a 2A10BC was $40 maybe?

We used them ourselves at the fire department all the time for small vehicle fires, vegetation fires, etc... where it wasn't worth getting the hoses out.

All of our departments and local businesses needed a licensed guy to do it and tag it. We needed the contractors to have skin in the game where their license stands behind the extinguisher working for a year.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

Hello Greg,

I am unaware of anyone doing a refill and recharge at home independently. .

Neither do I... That's why I was thinking / wondering about just pulling the pin and giving it a short blast. Crazy? Useless?

[mgarblik]

I feel the dry chemical powder ABC extinguishers give people a false sense of security. I have had 2 situations where in a fire emergency, I pulled the pin and squeezed the trigger and absolutely NOTHING came out of a total of 4 fire extinguishers!! All 4 had a gauge with a needle showing they were fully charged. It's like they were all "novelty" fire extinguishers. In 2 other instances where they did actually work and put the fire out, everything touched by the dry powder is instantly ruined. So if you put your engine fire out with it, basically, you can save the castings and throw the rest of the engine away if it's a show car. The stuff is so corrosive, it instantly ruins the surface finish on everything.

For automotive and shop use, I am equipped with CO2, and Halon and Halitron extinguishers everywhere. I still have some dry chemical as back-up but do not depend on them. I would not trust one at all that is over 5 years old. The gauges on those little ones mean nothing in my experience.

The Element extinguishers look like a great idea but I would need about 10 of them to cover all my cars and little buildings. I need to bite the bullet and see if they would make me a better deal on a bunch of them. First saw them at the PRI show this past year.

[vertigto]

Search for the element video with Jay Leno on YouTube. I have two of them, but thankfully having had to use either.

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Neither do I... That's why I was thinking / wondering about just pulling the pin and giving it a short blast. Crazy? Useless?

In my experience, trying a dry chemical ABC even for a second will result in the valve leaking and soon the pressure is gone.

With a gas type (CO2 or Halon), I have used them for a quick blast (don't ask) and pressure is still at 90+% ten years later.

But ABCs are the problem, the powder gets packed and may not discharge when needed.

I used to work with a guy that would carry a rubber mallet when doing monthly extinguisher checks and would turn the extinguisher upside down and beat it to loosen the powder.

No idea if that works.

The one time I used an ABC dry powder for a real fire, the extinguisher I grabbed was probably 30 years old and when I pulled the pin nothing happened...at first...after squeezing the trigger and nothing happened, I had enough time to say "Holy F$%" and then it went off and saved the day.

[Greg Reid]

What's a good way to dispose of old extinguishers?

[redbird68]

Found a thread on a porsche site on Element
Long thread but very thorough, even has input from an Element rep.

I think I will get a few.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/pors...inguisher.html

[Jeff Hamlin]

What I don't like about the ELEMENT is you are putting yourself very close to the fire when using it.

There are also several vids showing how ineffective they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAjlLscIizI

Think I'll stick with my tried and true Fire X

[sdbob]

I also shake existing fire extinguishers so powder remains loose. I was told that by old timers.Now that's me at 75,gulp! I use to buy halon.my experience over time the halon would 'leak' out. When I take a drive I have 3 extinguisher s in the car. I Check for fuel leaks at carb and pump, replace any rubber fuel lines or at least inspect for cracking. I use to be a volunteer fireman my 2 cts.

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by mrennie

But ABCs are the problem, the powder gets packed and may not discharge when needed.

I used to work with a guy that would carry a rubber mallet when doing monthly extinguisher checks and would turn the extinguisher upside down and beat it to loosen the powder.

No idea if that works.

Exactly!

As he alluded to in a previous post, Mike and I learned that lesson the hard way when the Boss Bird was on fire.

The main idea of the yearly service (done correctly) is to empty the powder out and fill it back in to make sure it's not a lump of concrete stuck in the bottom.

Whacking it with a rubber mallet might help, but as said, it can't be verified.

Eric

[vertigto]

As rnentioned in a previous post referencing Jay Leno's Garage...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBjX...kgbGVubw%3D%3D

[mzbk2l]

PKP fire extinguishers were common on ships when I was in the Navy. They consist of a cylinder with Purple Potassium (element K) Powder and a CO2 charging cylinder on the side. Slam the lever on top and the CO2 cylinder is discharged into the PKP cylinder, pressurizing it so it can be sprayed on a fire. Until the CO2 is discharged, the PKP is just a pile of powder in a cylinder, so there was a (monthly?) maintenance check that consisted of unscrewing the top of the PKP cylinder and stirring the powder inside. I frequently found cylinders that, even after only a month, had large clumps of powder sticking together. I've even had to replace them when all of the powder had formed a solid mass inside. I'm not a big fan of powder extinquishers, but I never had a malfunction on a CO2 cylinder.

I take home the leftovers from work that pile up when we dispose of vehicles that had extinquishers included, so I don't get to be picky; I take what we have.

[Mr Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

What's a good way to dispose of old extinguishers?

Well, they do make an excellent water g*n:

1. Empty by whatever means necessary, then flush and clean the inside.
2. Drill and tap the bottom center for 1/8npt threads
3. Insert 1/8npt Shrader valve.
4. Fill up 3/4 with water, screw the top back on.
5. Pressurize with 125psi of shop air thru Shrader valve

You end up with a hysterically powerful "water dispensing unit" that can damn near drill holes.

[redbird68]

Well after too many hours spent on amazon i have placed an order!

I learned that no one size fits all.

3A-40ABC Amerex for multiple locations in the house and barn.
2.5 LB Halotron for garage and car barn
2 Element sticks for taking with me when driving

Spent over a grand

I lost a house to a fire 10 yrs ago, not fun. 4 classic cars were hurt but not totaled, the house burned over the garage and burning joists. etc fell on them. Btw Hagerty came through like a champ.

I have had 4 under hood fires in my life and i think an Element stick would have been perfect for each. For one I extinguished with coffee and a fortunately located puddle!



I hope everyone reading this thread takes a minute to inventory and inspect their home/garage/car fire extinguishers. You never know what will happen and good, fresh extinguishers are cheap insurance. Your cars and loved ones are worth the effort and expense.