[68bird400HO]

I know some of you are using oils with higher levels of zinc. There are also still the zinc additives out there like ZDDP Plus and ZDDP Maxx, ect. Wonder if anyone is using these, and, if so what oil are they mixing this in with.

I was using Brad Penn which I like but don't have access to it right now and want to get my oil changes done. I have a few bottles of ZDDP Maxx sitting on the shelf but have been reading it may not be good to add foreign things to some oils as it can mess up the formulation. I don't know if this is the case with the detergents in the oil, and, if there is a certain base oil that may be better for mixing in a ZDDP product. Any further insight is greatly appreciated.

[67gtospud]

I run valvoline vr1 conventional high zinc racing oil. As far as I know they offer it in 10w-30 and 20w-50.

[Dragncar]

Zinc additives make the oil "less slippery".

[78w72]

need to know what size cam you have & what valve springs. if its a stock or mild cam without heavy "race" type springs & is fully broken in, you dont "need" to use an additive. most modern oil levels are fully capable of supporting these types of cams & most have 800-900+ppm of zddp & other anti wear additives. also need to know how much zddp the additive adds since too much is not good.

you can also do a search on here or many other sources as this subject has been covered numerous times with very long threads. bobistheoilguy has hundreds of actual oil analysis that show whats in most modern oils to help make a educated decision on what oil to use.

[Navy Horn 16]

AMSOIL Z-Rod is fantastic. I kind of found it by accident and don't "need it" since I have a roller cam. It was on sale, so I got it and figured it wouldn't hurt anything. My roller lifters had always been really loud, and the Z-Rod made them run quiet. I can't explain why, but it works.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Navy Horn 16

AMSOIL Z-Rod is fantastic. I kind of found it by accident and don't "need it" since I have a roller cam. It was on sale, so I got it and figured it wouldn't hurt anything. My roller lifters had always been really loud, and the Z-Rod made them run quiet. I can't explain why, but it works.

Same stuff we've used for years in both roller and flat tappet engines.

[Don 79 TA]

it amazes me....
i know... scary to think exactly how many years ago it really was, but damn....
these oils that we now have to spend big $$ used to cost us almost nothing, and had all the protection needed too
i used to get a case of oil (10-30/40 or 20-50) and filters for what seemed less than we have to spend on one quart now....
guess it's not the 80s anymore
my bald head in the sun reminds of that all the time lol

additive clashing is what Driven calls it and does not recommend adding additives to their oils
lately i use Motul ester oils
if needing additives i'd personally try to get an oil that has it
hear to many stories of the additives not working, but then again i don't know why someone would spend so much on an engine and use cheap oil
guess same goes for a dad putting super unleaded in a car, yet feeds a child crappy/low quality food.... to each his own i guess.....

[Formulajones]

If it helps, I became a preferred customer years ago for Amsoil discounts. I found that by doing so, after shipping and tax, and even the yearly fee figured in, the price per quart is about $7 when I buy in bulk. Compared to Napa that sells it for nearly $10 a quart. Compared to the Valvoline VR1 stuff that is also right at $7 a quart here locally.

Plus it's shipped right to my door, and don't have to run around town looking for it. So the Amsoil ends up being about the same price as other decent conventional oils sold around here by the time it's all said and done.

[78w72]

que the "scamsoil" comment....

[Formulajones]

Where's he at when you need him

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by 67gtospud

I run valvoline vr1 conventional high zinc racing oil. As far as I know they offer it in 10w-30 and 20w-50.

All Valvoline products are great but what concerns me is the VR racing oils don't have the detergent package non racing oils do. I bought up many original GM EOS bottles and add it to Valvoline 30w for my GTO. STP is still loaded with ZDDP and has been tested and used for decades. I would use STP if I didn't have the EOS. However, everyone is comfortable with different additives and oils so it is a judgement call.

[Steve C.]

"While on the topic of detergents, it's also worth noting the difference in race oils compared to oil intended for street use. The advantage of race oils for performance engines is their high concentrations of anti-wear additives, such as zinc, phosphorous, and molybdenum. The Driven race oil listed in this testing is intended for competition engines, so it also has relatively low detergent levels to allow the anti-wear additives to do their job to protect internal engine components. Competition engine use assumes that the oil will not experience long drain intervals because of the level of maintenance required of a race engine."

Now the obvious, how often does one change their oil... and the related, many do not put a lot of mileage on their 'hobby cars'.


What’s Inside That Bottle of Oil Really Does Make a Difference

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...e-a-difference


,

[68bird400HO]

Interesting article and consistent with what I was reading elsewhere that made me start this thread. My motors are definitely street builds, 400 with a Summit 2801 and 455 with a slightly larger duration cam. I am using HO Racing VS11 springs in both which give about 125 lbs seat pressure and maybe 250 open.

So it leaves the question on what oil to use. I was using brad penn 10w30 but is a regular detergent oil that is readily available enough? Apparently, it doesn't sound like adding zddp to a detergent oil is a good idea and doesn't sound like my motors really need racing oil. Am I just over thinking this?

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Back in the day when these engines were made, GM only recommended EOS as a supplement to regular oils for their engines. That is in my original owners manual. John Sawruk talked about this a lot in The Legend of the GTOAA years ago. John spoke of this because of concerns of low zinc in the modern oils. EOS John claimed was an excellent product and recommended adding this or another ZDDP to the oil to take up for the loss of zinc. Everyone has their own brand they're comfortable with and use for their classics. Very individual thing and everyone has an opinion. I say find a product you like and use it..

[Kenth]

My 1965 Owners Manual states:
Regular oil changes are an important part of your Guardian Maintenance service.

Note: A can of Engine Oil Supplement (E.O.S.) must be added at each oil change.

Nothing about only use with "regular oil"?

[F ROCK]

Respectfully, my 1971 owners manual says supplements not recommended.

[F ROCK]

Back of eos bottle

[hgiv]

Well I think its fair to say that using the best oil with all the goodies is the best route. If your argue that you're ignogantious. But if you don't, and you are a guy who like the oil on sale, I think dumping a bottle of your favorite flavor of zinc magic isn't going to hurt anything given the use and time oil is in most of our cars. Now does it help... who knows. Some really smart fellas have different opinions.

If I had a fresh new high dollar build or a crate motor I might be singing a different tune. But like many of you I drive my car about 250-350 miles a year. And I change the oil every year. I already think that is stupid and a waste of dead dinosaurs and money. But I do it. And I don't drive my car at the track at top RPMs. I drive around town. So the miles are fairly easy. (do burn outs at the DQ count?) My flat tappet cam has been sitting in god knows what oil for 50 years and 300k miles. But it had regular oil changes. I find it hard to believe I can overthink this one.

Keep the oil clean, throw some zinc in there if it make you feel good.

[F ROCK]

Agreed, I'm using the Lucas break in lube this time around

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Ram Air IV Jack

All Valvoline products are great but what concerns me is the VR racing oils don't have the detergent package non racing oils do.

the conventional VR1 oil in the grey bottle is rated for street use & has detergents. the black bottle pro-v racing oil is the one that is not rated for street use.

https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...vr1-racing-oil

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

My motors are definitely street builds, 400 with a Summit 2801 and 455 with a slightly larger duration cam. I am using HO Racing VS11 springs in both which give about 125 lbs seat pressure and maybe 250 open.

So it leaves the question on what oil to use. I was using brad penn 10w30 but is a regular detergent oil that is readily available enough? Apparently, it doesn't sound like adding zddp to a detergent oil is a good idea and doesn't sound like my motors really need racing oil. Am I just over thinking this?

yes. nothing wrong with using a specialty oil, but those cams/springs dont need a crazy high amount of zinc. another option to look at for common available oils with higher zinc is to use a diesel oil, its a very good oil & has about 1000ppm zddp which is more than enough for a mild street cam. ive been using delo-400 in a cam similar to the 2801 & have used the older rotella-t, (which is actually on the lower side of zddp numbers for diesel oil today) but have also used standard conventional oils like valvoline white bottle with zero issues.

a big thing thats still overlooked is that todays oils are far better than oil of even 15-20 years ago & especially the older stuff from the 70s & 80's that used to create sludge or coke etc... todays oils use far better base oil & modern additives that negate the need for super high zddp levels in mild cams like you are running. big race & solid lifter cams are a different story.