[jimmy daniel]

I'm turning my old Butler race motor into a street motor for my 69 GTO. The block is not filled. It has the forged Eagle crank, Eagle rods and Ross flat top pistons. Butler is going to street port a set of D port 87cc E Heads I already have. I'm going to use the RARE 2.5 manifolds ( I don't want to fool with headers) as this is 95% street car. I already have a Torker II intake and I'm leaning toward the "old faithful" hydraulic roller. I plan to send Cliff a 800 Q jet that I also already have. What are the opinions on my cam and intake choice? Even thou its a street car I want that aggressive cam sound at idle. Also curious what kind of HP numbers I can expect with this kind of set up.
Thanks

Car is automatic with power brakes and a/c and 3.23 gears.

[steve25]

In light of that cars weight, the 3.23 gears and the A/C, I would go with the performer rpm manifold and not look back on the 2 to 3 high rpm HP you will give up over running the Torker II.
The RPM Manifold will provide much higher average torque numbers in the rpm range that the motor spends its most time in with the 3 speed TB trans, if you had a 4 speed it would be a different story at least as far as mid band torque is concerned.

I would also run a 1/2" open spacer under that carb as a big 463 CID motor with a ported heads and a duel plane Manifold can use all the CFM into the plenum that it can get.

Also if you have not done so to the GTO already, you will need to up grade the fuel system.

The stock size fuel line from IN! the tank to the carb will not provide the volume of fuel needed to feed that motors HP level above 4500 rpm and you will be running over the motors connecting rod`s in short order!!
This is even more of a concern with the Q-jets small fuel bowl volume.

Also adding a seperate trans cooler is a cheap and fast way to drop 10 degrees out of the water temp while adding 50% more life to bands and clutch packs in the trans.

[jimmy daniel]

I've got the RobbMc fuel system all the way from tank to pump so I should be good there. I like the tip in the Trans cooler. I had not thought of that. I can start looking for an RPM intake cause I'm not worried about losing a few top end HP if it makes it a better street motor.

[Region Warrior]

Wont loose much top end w/a RPM.
In fack think it slow's my 60 ft to 1/8th.
Although mine only go's 114(12.0) at the stripe, pulls good to 130 mph plus.
That's with a street 461ci and 3.42's.

[jonmachota78]

I second the rpm manifold since you are using the qjet. I think the t2 is better matched with a square bore carb. Since you are not using headers the "stump puller" would probably be the better choice.

[Blued and Painted]

Tight LSA,s and RA manifolds.
http://www.sdperformance.com/moreTech.php?newsID=39

[jimmy daniel]

It appears SD Performance likes the old faithful with the Ram Air 2.5 manifolds if im reading that right.

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

It appears SD Performance likes the old faithful with the Ram Air 2.5 manifolds if im reading that right.

That's the way I understand it also.

[jimmy daniel]

I looked again at the SD website and they say the Stump puller is designed with the Ram Air manifolds in mind. But then their article says that the Old Faithful only gave up only about 6-8 HP with a motor similar to mine. Im guessing either of the cams would work fine. Im not worried about getting that last 10-15 hp. Im more interested in it having a nasty idle and smoking the tires at will. Its strictly a fun street car thats driven maybe twice a month. I'll sell my Torker II and find me an RPM intake. The motor will be overkill anyway. I just looked at the invoice and its the forged 4.25 crank and 6.80 eagle rods w/ARP rod bolts, mega brace, custom flat top Ross pistons.........should be fun ))

[jonmachota78]

Tighter LSA cams don't like restrictive exhausts because all else being equal they have more overlap. That's why they put the OF cam on a 114 LSA when used with manifolds, to reduce the overlap. The stump puller is OK with manifolds on a 112 lsa because it has less duration which brings the Overlap in check.

[GTOLou]

Read that third paragraph again - minimum lsa of 112 (if not more) and less duration.

I'd go 230/236 @112 - or better yet, call dave. I've run the 230/236 HR and it is a very nice cam and it doesn't give up that much to the 236/242.

Did anyone see the "mule" article in HPP last month. They compared a 224/230HR to a 236/242 HR and peak HP was only 20hp or difference. I was shocked. I've run the 224HR in a 455 and it is basically a souped-up station wagon cam.

[GTOLou]

ALso - intake:

Qjet carb = RPM
4150 carb = TII

what I would do.

[Blued and Painted]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

Im not worried about getting that last 10-15 hp. ))

You mentioned maybe using a roller. The article mentioned the quick opening and closing of a roller with a relatively wide LSA (shorter overlap) was well suited to RA manifolds. If your going to build a bullet proof street bottom end-- Oop's lost my train of thought. Oh yeah, you might be able to feel 15 HP.

[paul s.]

For a full weight street car, I like the Performer RPM.

Nothing wrong with a tight LSA cam and manifolds.... circle track racers use that combo all the time and they really need to accelerate coming off the corner. It's too much duration that is the killer. Yes, it's all interrelated but the majority of guys out there are happy running their engine no farther than 5,500 rpm. In that case, 224 degrees is PLENTY of cam for 500hp. Heck, Car Craft made 501hp over a decade ago with a little 230 flat tappet.

I wouldn't be so quick to give up 15hp, that's a slippery slope. Let's say that 15hp is at peak, but you have your valvetrain sorted out so your able to rev a 500-1,000 rpm PAST peak... AND NOT HAVE YOUR POWER AND TORQUE CURVES DROP LIKE A ROCK... I'm PRETTY sure you would notice that.

A mild flat tappet 230 @ .050 camshaft, paired with a ported set of E-heads will make power above 6,000 rpm (I realize some people refuse to believe that but whatever). Now, put a roller in there with the proper valvesprings and you have a recipe for a seriously broad torque curve.

I like this cam http://www.sandovalperformance.com/#...rgalleryv266=3

but I am biased

EDIT: If a guy is going to go drag racing and uses a high stall convertor, then yes, a bigger cam is usually called for.

[steve25]

The side clearance on those 6.80" BB Chevy rod`s is way the heck up there (.028" or more! for a street motor most times!
While the motor is out I would install a crank scraper to fit at .020" clearance to the crank and a windage tray also.
The scraper alone is worth 5 to 8 HP at street RPMs and will make up for the top end HP drop between manifolds!

[jonmachota78]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

It appears SD Performance likes the old faithful with the Ram Air 2.5 manifolds if im reading that right.

Yes if you put it on a 114lsa. That cam on a 112lsa will want headers and a good flowing exhaust.

[jimmy daniel]

Originally Posted by steve25

The side clearance on those 6.80" BB Chevy rod`s is way the heck up there (.028" or more! for a street motor most times!
While the motor is out I would install a crank scraper to fit at .020" clearance to the crank and a windage tray also.
The scraper alone is worth 5 to 8 HP at street RPMs and will make up for the top end HP drop between manifolds!

It already has the crank scraper.

Keep in mind on the cam choice that its really important to me that it has a great aggressive sound. May never see the drag strip but it will make the cruise ins.

[jimmy daniel]

Butler says the heads will flow 290-300 when I get them back. The rockers off the old race motor are 1.65 Comp Ultra roller rockers so I can use them again.

[jonmachota78]

In that case the cam Paul s. Suggested is looking better since its on a 108, shld be plenty lumpy for ya. With that tight of an LSA and short duration I would run the dynamic compression numbers to make sure you're OK with pump gas. I didn't see what your CR is... or the xr288hr may give you the balance you're looking for. Jon

[jimmy daniel]

My compression will be whatever 87cc in a .060 over 455 with flat tops and zero deck. Can anybody tell me what that might be?