[Trevor78]

Hard tops flex across the roof rear and find the weak point in the sharp roof corner, T-tops flex all over the roof, perhaps less corner cracking. At least those come up are often hard tops, and probably none ever drag raced!

[Poncho Dave]

If the leaf springs are original and the car has had some hard launches, the springs separate behind the axle as they are bending up (wrapping). Working on a super duty currently where this is happening and the pillars are cracked!
!

[necdb3]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

PA state law mandated that the drums are pulled during the state inspection, it was required to remove the drums even when new. Did it get done on all new cars? The law requires that the lining be measured by the mechanic, and the remaining lining be recorded in the records. Most times the lining measured from the rivet heads was 4/32s, that would be the reading recorded on the repair order, and transferred into the book required each garage to maintain for an audit once a year by a state police officer. the law requires you also to differentiate whether the lining was bonded, or riveted lining.

If the car was involved in an accident attributed to a mechanical defect, the records may be examined by the state police. If the car was resold, and the inspection sticker was illegally affixed as determined by a state police officer, you as the mechanic that affixed that sticker are liable.

Having a state inspection station, and being a licensed mechanic in PA has a lot of demands, and consequences, if the inspection was found to be illegal or fraudulent. Plus all the record keeping that goes along with the responsibility.

In PA it's a necessary evil if you run a garage, or work as a mechanic. Without the inspection license, you stand to lose a lot of customer base. At least 50% of the work done, is generated from state inspections.

Not living in PA since 1999, I don't miss the aggravation a bit.

WE would know that the clips on this car would have been removed from having 4.88 gears.

[north]

Having owned many cars of the same model and vintage I've gotten a good sense for the "feel" of mileage. For example, a car with really low miles is often noticeable in many odd ways:
...lack of slop in things like the headlight switch, radio knobs, turn signal switch
...lack of slop in door handles, the outside buttons and especially the inside pull handles
...same goes for the parking brake mechanism, the release handle mechanism as well as the actual pedal travel
...low wear on the pedals but also the lack of slop in the brake and clutch pedals where the bolt to the dash bracket
...the lack of shine and smoothness of the steering rim, drivers armrest, shift knob and other grained materials
...tight door hinges and door latches
...original opaque painted front parking and side marker light bulbs (depending on the year
...original hoses, belts, clamps etc,

None of these things are absolute and are harder to narrow down on a restored car but in total they give you a pretty solid sense of mileage

Lastly is just the way a low mileage car drives, the tightness of steering, lack of giggles etc. Even if a low mileage car needs work it has a tighter feel somehow than a high mile car where everything has been replaced. My 69 Judge has 11,000 original miles. It was a drag car until it was parked in 1972-3 and even though it had a tough life the minute you back it out of the garage you feel its low mileage. Even though my other GTO's are relatively low mileage (60's to sub 100k) and are rust free survivors that had a super easy life they just don't have that tight new car feel of the 11,000 mile Judge.

[kingbuzzo]

my car has none of these things lol however it is about 100% nicer than the 150k t/a I traded her in for...

[1965gp]

How does the rest of the car look? Have bolts been taken off that didn’t need to be? Overspray, any of the signs mentioned above?

My 79 TATA is a 25k car and it’s very noticeable against my wife’s 100k TA that has been restored. Under the dash ducting, under hood wire routing, etc.

I am in a similar situation with our 67 RS Convertible. We bought from my dad’s coworker who had owned it since the 80’s I believe. It is a northern VA car so it would have seen a lot of snow. The odometer reads under 12k miles I think.

It has had one repaint before we got it. It was purchased as a gift by the previous owner so they might have painted it.

The car feels extremely tight. There is no panel replacement I can find, the interior looks like it’s never been taken out which means the power window motors haven’t been replaced. The convertible top and frame line up nice and tight…… I dunno. Makes me wonder. It has obviously had a repaint at some point but it could have been a summer car for the first 10 years.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by kingbuzzo

...
I still need to do the PHS but just like yers, shrouded in mystery so I will be watching yer investigation!

Just sharing this for anyone who doesn't yet know;
PHS has been warning people that their files are getting to that age where the information is being lost - the microfiche is degrading;
I believe the article I read on POCI a while back stated that any car which had a PHS order for the last handful of years, has had the information saved to computer, but if your car has never been searched then the information will not have been saved, and may be unreadable.

If the car was originally a Canadian car (PHS shows RPO Z49, and the paperwork is different than a state-side order) then you can get the information from Vintage Vehicle Services (they used to be affiliated with GM-Canada; but are a separate company now).

[north]

Good point, I typically buy two cars a year and in recent years the percentage of invoices I get that are barely legible is increasing.

I have some old original TV shows from the same era as our cars on film (the original 16mm reels that were sent out to network affiliate stations for initial broadcast) and in the last ten years I’ve noticed they are all degrading (getting a vinegar smell too) despite nearly ideal storage).

I wish they would scan them all but they have millions of documents so it’s likely not feasible. Also having all that digitized adds a huge risk to their business if the data was leaked somehow.

I’ll also repeat my warning that you should always get your own PHS before buying a high dollar car. In my years of collecting I’ve seen my share of doctored PHS documents on eBay and the like. Cut and paste photoshop can look very legit. Many of the ones I’ve seen are undetectable visually, I only catch them because of my experience with a lot of the behind the scenes structure and rules used on these invoices.

[rbrtmchl]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

Obviously pedal pad wear is another.

jhein,

Can you post pictures of the pedals?

[jhein]

Thanks for all the comments and input from everyone. Here's the thing about the car though, it's been restored. So everything has been taken apart, refinished and put back together. So most, if not all of these potential signs of low miles and originality are all long gone. It's not like a survivor in any way. It does have a lot of original stuff on it and based on the history it could well be the actual miles. But, since it's been taken apart and has lots of missing original parts, it's never going to be worth any more because of alleged, undocumented, low miles. It's just a cool story, that's about it.

Like I said, I just thought it was interesting to get some history about the car. Fun stuff.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by rbrtmchl

jhein,

Can you post pictures of the pedals?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by jhein

Thanks for all the comments and input from everyone. Here's the thing about the car though, it's been restored. So everything has been taken apart, refinished and put back together. So most, if not all of these potential signs of low miles and originality are all long gone. It's not like a survivor in any way. It does have a lot of original stuff on it and based on the history it could well be the actual miles. But, since it's been taken apart and has lots of missing original parts, it's never going to be worth any more because of alleged, undocumented, low miles. It's just a cool story, that's about it.

Like I said, I just thought it was interesting to get some history about the car. Fun stuff.

A friend in high school bought a super low mileage (less than 5k) 70 Z/28. He sold it several years after high school. He was fortunate to be able to buy it back many years later with less than fifty miles added to the odometer. Other than the car being exceptionally clean, the mileage didn't matter a whole bunch. The car had been repainted, an LS-6 engine and TH400 replaced the original 350 and four speed and the interior was changed from green to black along with tall back seats replacing the original 1970 seats..... But still a great car and the low mileage is a nice conversation piece.

It would make a great auction car if the right guy found all the original parts , returned it to stock and changed a few facts in the cars history.

[1965gp]

I wouldn’t discount the miles as not affecting price- low miles is still low miles even if it was restored.

I can believe it- especially with the accident early on in its life.

[Trevor78]

Unless it's a low-mileage 1/4 mile car vs a well-looked after highway cruiser of higher easy miles!