[MIke L]

Good Morning
I don’t post much but try to read everything which leads me to this…
I wanted to go back to using 15/40 Rotella T4 conventional oil and stop using 20/50 VR1 Racing Oil on my ‘65 389.

When I used it in the past my oil pressure at startup was about 45, hot idle around 15-20 and about 50 at 3000 rpm which seems just fine.
(I have a 60# oil hv pump)

When I look at the bottles now there is no “S” rating anymore anywhere on the bottles including in the donut, All ratings now are “CK”something

So I assume then they recently changed the formula which now isn’t acceptable for gasoline engines.

Am I right and they did, and it’s not, or I’m missing something??

Thanks

Mike

[steve25]

Is CK not a rating for Diesel engines?

[MIke L]

It is, that’s my point.
Those are the only ratings listed now, where in the past I remember it having an S rating also and now there isn’t.



Mike

[i82much]

i just wish valvoline would make VR1 in a 10 or 15w-40. Would be perfect for a lot of our older cars. 20w50 is too thick and many feel 10w30 is too thin.

[Sirrotica]

If you want to know about specifics like gasoline engine compatibility of diesel oil, they do have tech lines that are staffed by the manufactures technical people. I would put more stock in their answers, than asking people on the internet.

Here is the contact information:

Shell Lubricants department by calling 1-800-237-8645 or you may e-mail them at generalpublicenquiries-us@shell.com.

I use diesel oil in my diesel engines, and oil intended for gasoline engine in my gas engines. I was a Pennzoil dealer, and I directed questions like this to the tech people, if I was in doubt.

In the end there are probably thousands of people using Rotella in their gas engines, without any ill effects, but the additive package isn't optimum for that usage. There are people using racing oil in their street cars, but again, it will work, but not optimum for street usage. There could be a better alternative, and the tech people will likely point that out, they know their products better than anyone frequenting the internet.

[MIke L]

Thanks for the contact information

You’re right of course.
it’s just over the years I’ve come to respect the opinion of the members here such as yourself.

That’s why I asked




Mike

[RocktimusPryme]

Rotella and other Deisel oils have in the past (and maybe currently) had SN ratings on them as well as the CK ratings.

Thats always been my biggest problem with people pushing HD Diesel oils for flat tappet engines. Its not necessarily that its bad information at a given time, but diesel oils, just like gasoline oils are constantly changing their formulations and having minor re-brands. On top of that oil brands don't always make it the easiest to see what they have in them. So I have never liked when people made blanket statements about, "Dont waste your money on expensive oils, just use T4" etc. They arent making it clear that while that may be correct at a point in time, its not correct in perpetuity.

Ive used 15w40 on cheap engines I don't really care about. But if I have actual money in an engine, the extra cost for a Driven, Amsoil, or other boutique oil designed for hot rods just isn't much of a cost increase.

[VCho455]

What type of camshaft is installed in the engine?

In the never-ending push for cleaner exhaust emissions the time frame from oil classification changes has gone from once every 10-12 Years to every 3 to 5 years.

For a stock engine from the 1960's there is no oil with a current classification that is appropriate, period! There are oils that are appropriate for them but none of them carry a rating. The current rated diesel oils are no longer formulated in a way to provide long-term protection in a vintage engines.

The introduction of catalytic converters and Def fluid has forced the oil formulation to change. Yesterday's Rotella is not today's Rotella.

[59safaricat]

The owners manual of my 1959 Pontiac calls for 10/30 oil in my 389. Not sure why people think the factory rating of ancient, crappy oil of the time is too thin unless their engine was rebuilt with sloppier tolerances in the crank/rod bearings.

Diesel oil was originally used when zinc levels in them were high and before zinc additives were readily available, which are everywhere now. Use whatever oil you want in whatever weight you desire and add a bottle of zinc to it.

You guys are making this way more difficult than necessary.

[Formulas]

This is on shelves near me, but i dont think iam far from the source

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Formulas

This is on shelves near me, but i dont think iam far from the source

Their refinery as far as I know, is the former Kendall/Witco refinery in Bradford PA, just south of the NY/PA state line. I used to pass by there 2-3 times a week when I traveled to the Federal prison they built just south of Bradford.

On the website it states that they no longer have the oil refined in Bradford, but it doesn't elude to where it is now refined. The packaging facility is in Lebanon Indiana. Formerly it was Brad Penn oil, now changed to Penn Grade oil.

They also claim that even though the company was purchased, and the name changed, the formulation is exactly the same as previously, and they had it tested by a third party independent lab, new vs old.

Here is the history from their website: https://penngrade1.com/about/

Funny they talk about being the original green oil, when I was just a kid, my dad used Wolfs Head oil, it was emerald green long before 50 years ago, more likely 65 years ago.........

[Jay S]

If your going to run 15w40 I would find one that has a multi fleet rating with the S rating. Oil with only the CK ratings are designed and formulated for the intensive EGR systems on some of the newer Diesel engines. Starting around 2007 Diesel engines started having problems with getting heavy amounts of soot in the engine oil and breaking down quicker. The new formulations had different detergent packages aimed at controlling or suspending soot in the oil. On our older Diesel engines we prefer to use oils than have the S rating and the CK.. My preference is too only run T4 in a newer Diesel that has the EGR or Urea injection.. You can add zinc to T4, but the anti soot chemistry is still part of the formulation, countering the protection of what the zinc is for, and ends up with less overall protect than a gas oil or multi fleet engine oil that does not have that same chemistry. It works both ways too, I would not want to run a SN only oil in one of my Diesels that needs the soot detergents the CK oils have. Some of the newer Diesels have a lot of trouble with soot in the oil from the EGR.

[MIke L]

Thank You Fellas for all your responses!

With the T4 not listing any “S” rating anymore that’s what prompted me to ask.
At the last meeting of our local GTOAA Assoc chapter I asked what everyone uses and found the majority use Driven conventional oil with a few split between VR1 and a few others


Anyway, I’m gonna try the Driven and see how that goes.

Thank You all again for your opinions and advise



Mike

[Jay S]

I don’t think you could go wrong with Driven. Driven is actually my first choice on an old gas high performance engine. Penn grade is my second choice (I like the sticky green oil )VR1 is my 3rd, but I use VR1 a lot on engines over 500 HP because it is carried at my local parts stores, not because I think it is better. I have quite a few friends running Amsoil zrod too, I think it is up there with the best of them and has a great reputation, I just have never tried it. My older gas engine fleet stuff(older pickups, trucks and gas and older diesel engine tractors) has 15w40 Deisel oil yet but all carry the SN rating.

[Formulajones]

It was my understanding that the diesel oils have way more detergents in them than other conventional style oils for a gas engine, which will be counterproductive to the zinc/phosphorous content that people are looking for in oil. I've never done an oil analysis on it but I would guess that's probably not the best scenario for a gas engine.

The Valvoline VR1 used to be the opposite of that which can be cause for concern if you try to extend oil changes and/or the car sits a lot. But I haven't used that stuff in a couple decades and as quickly as formulations for oils change it's likely that isn't the case anymore.

As expensive as engines are to build these days and parts harder to get the price of oil is really not a huge concern to me so my money goes towards more of a specialty oil and a good filter, and oil analysis has been excellent as a result. I don't think you could go wrong with Driven, Penn Grade, Amsoil etc....what ever is available local to you. Mail ordering in bulk is what I usually do.

Edit: Looks like Jay beat me to it

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

The Valvoline VR1 used to be the opposite of that which can be cause for concern if you try to extend oil changes and/or the car sits a lot. But I haven't used that stuff in a couple decades and as quickly as formulations for oils change it's likely that isn't the case anymore.

VR1 comes in race-only formulations and street formulations. The silver bottle 20w50 and 10w30 formulations are perfectly appropriate for regular street usage.

None of the hot rod formulations that I know of are also extended drain oils.

The best resource for this discussion is Bob is the Oil Guy forum, those guys will talk your ear off for days about ZDDP, esters, waxes, hydrocarbon chains, whatever tickles your pickle.

[400 Lemans]

Originally Posted by i82much

i just wish valvoline would make VR1 in a 10 or 15w-40. Would be perfect for a lot of our older cars. 20w50 is too thick and many feel 10w30 is too thin.

I like VR1 also. Im going to try 3 qts of 20w50 and 3 qts of 10w30. I fiqure that should end up 15w40.

[Sirrotica]

https://blog.amsoil.com/can-i-use-di...my-gas-engine/

Here you go from an Amsoil blog, about running diesel oil in a gasoline engine. there's more to it than most people think there is. In the end, yes it will work, but it's far from the most logical choice.

The people that formulate oils know more about the current additive packages than keyboard warriors do. Again ask the manufacturers representatives, the service is free, just ask, and get the knowledge from the horses mouth, rather than the other end of the horse...............

[RocktimusPryme]

Good article by Amsoil, but the problem I see with it is it never mentions the word, "zinc"

Which is our world is why people go to the HD Diesel oil for good or ill. Maybe crowds other than flat tappet cam guys also use it, but I had no idea. But still, from our demographics perspective it beat around the bush on the reason people choose that oil.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Good article by Amsoil, but the problem I see with it is it never mentions the word, "zinc"

Which is our world is why people go to the HD Diesel oil for good or ill. Maybe crowds other than flat tappet cam guys also use it, but I had no idea. But still, from our demographics perspective it beat around the bush on the reason people choose that oil.

The oil I purchased years ago was 15W40 "S" oil and had 1450 for the ZINC Number. I run high lift Solid Lifter FLAT TAPPET camshafts.

The Corporate rep for my former company recommended buying as much
oil about as I could afford. I just counted and have about 100 quarts of the
High ZDDP Oil Mentioned above.

For most people, they run smaller lift Hydraulic Camshafts or Roller Camshafts, Not Solid Lifter Flat Tappet Camshafts.
No "beat around the bush" on my post above. So I know my .600+ lift flat tappet Camshafts/Engines will live a long life with the 1450 ZDDP oil I have with the "S" rating. And the oil was purchased years ago (before all of the later oil composition changes).

I will say that the number of people running solid lifter high lift Flat Tappet Camshafts in a Pontiac is quite small today.

The ZDDP was changed from 1450 to about 950 when the oil designation was changed. 950 was still a decent number on a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft.
Think RA-IV camshaft.

Tom V.