[70 bird]

2 years Honda/Mitsubishi
1 year Ford Auto Dealer
11 Years Ford Prototype, Carron Industries
4 Years Ford Truck. Utility Co.

[Tom Vaught]

WE HAVE A MASSIVE NUMBER OF MEMBERS.
I would think that there would be a bunch more of the Pontiac Enthusiasts who have worked at least part of their life in a dealership environment. The dealership environment does not need to be GM. Post Up Please.

Tom V.

[PunchT37]

Course, with all the longer warranty`s these days, it`s most always warranty pay on the ticket. Customer pay getting rare as most won`t bring it back to the dealer after warranty runs out.

[Tom Vaught]

Except for the Specified Maintenance in the Owners Manual (or recall inspections, etc),
I drive so few miles these days that the Ford Dealer/ Mechanics are not making any money of of me and my lease vehicle. I think that is the case for a lot of the older people, at least in the Detroit area. Ford, Chrysler/GM.

Tom V.

[cnc]

AMC/Jeep/Renault started apprentice here
Hyundai don’t remember the dates
1992 Volvo ( currently Shop Forman)

[goatwgn]

Worked as a technician in a Chevrolet dealership years ago, did not care for "dealership politics" while working on commission. Switched 20 years ago to an independent shop, that works out a lot better. getting sick of it altogether though, to much electronic nonsense in newer cars, and it has taken a toll on my body (in my mid fifties, already feel "Old".

[Flynbye]

1985-2003 in a Olds, Pontiac, GMC, Buick dealership body shop.
I was like a kid in a candy store during my second ‘69 Firebird restoration in 1989. Bought so many parts over the parts counter for 10% over cost!

[carcrazy]

After a year in automotive tech school I went to work at a small Ford dealership in North Jackson, Ohio. As the newest guy I did all the crap jobs (undercoating being the worst) and lasted about 6 months before I decided to go back to school for electrical engineering.

[Slick Poncho]

[QUOTE=Cardo;6198265]WOW!! Someone who understands exactly what i do! You described my job as if you had done it! We are up to 5 miles of wire in some of these higher content vehicles, 5 CAN networks and 6 or 7 LIN networks with up to 54 modules, all networked and talking to each other. I finally walked away from it this year. I got sick of management having no idea what we do or work on, and up your arse constantly wondering why you can't fix a truck in 20 minutes.... I still really enjoy that work but not going to do it under those circumstances any more. I'm still at Ford, but no longer working on vehicles for them.

People just don’t have a clue what it takes to figure some of these things out. One loose connection, chewed wire, loose (rusted) ground and the whole bus goes down. Now the “doesn’t the computer tell you what’s wrong” theory is gone. Cars are complex, not a dumb mans game. With the amount of knowledge needed and equipment involved anymore it’s pretty obvious why no one in their right mind wants to do this anymore. I question myself sometime daily....

[goatwgn]

[QUOTE=Slick Poncho;6199534]

Originally Posted by Cardo

WOW!! Someone who understands exactly what i do! You described my job as if you had done it! We are up to 5 miles of wire in some of these higher content vehicles, 5 CAN networks and 6 or 7 LIN networks with up to 54 modules, all networked and talking to each other. I finally walked away from it this year. I got sick of management having no idea what we do or work on, and up your arse constantly wondering why you can't fix a truck in 20 minutes.... I still really enjoy that work but not going to do it under those circumstances any more. I'm still at Ford, but no longer working on vehicles for them.

People just don’t have a clue what it takes to figure some of these things out. One loose connection, chewed wire, loose (rusted) ground and the whole bus goes down. Now the “doesn’t the computer tell you what’s wrong” theory is gone. Cars are complex, not a dumb mans game. With the amount of knowledge needed and equipment involved anymore it’s pretty obvious why no one in their right mind wants to do this anymore. I question myself sometime daily....

I agree, wholeheartedly.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Slick Poncho

Cars are complex, not a dumb mans game. With the amount of knowledge needed and equipment involved anymore it’s pretty obvious why no one in their right mind wants to do this anymore. I question myself sometime daily....

This is extremely true. When I see what the average shop monkey does that passes for "work" it makes me question what we're all doing here. That the shop rates have gone up to $175/hr in some locations but a good tech is lucky to get 1/4 of that? And the dealership treats them like disposable dirt? My wife's dad was a dealership tech for Jaguar and Land Rover for 30+ years. He complained all the time about how because he was a great experienced tech he had the more difficult jobs (engine\transmission replacements, troubleshooting hard to duplicate electrical problems) and because of the flat rate he sometimes made less money than the oil change greasers who cut corners left and right if he was tasked with a particularly difficult problem that week.

I have multiple advances degrees and am naturally decent at troubleshooting, I've managed to fix all sorts of strange electrical problems on my Lincoln Town Car and Prius before that. If it took me all this training and a natural ability to do the job, how are they expecting these 18-20 year old kids with minimal training and "get it out NOW" flat-rate pay operations to succeed?

And then there's how the public sees you. I did work on my own cars and for a few others in college because it was a hobby and made a few bucks doing it on the side. A friend of my girlfriend at the time saw how I was semi-grimy and heard tales from my girlfriend about the latest problem I was fixing, she assumed I was a mechanic for a living. And she treated me like absolute $#!^, like I was somehow beneath her. She changed her tune about 6 months later when she found out that I was actually a degreed engineer (a "respectable" profession) and suddenly I was allowed to come over to her house and not treated like a moron every time I opened my mouth.

If we require our techs to have incredibly specialized skills, but pay them little more than a fast food worker while treating them like Gomer and Goober Pyle, is it any wonder that no one wants to do this anymore?

[1oldgoat]

I started in 1981 as a car washer at a Ford Mazda dealership and quickly became a line mechanic and ultimately the Mazda shop foreman. In 1987 I moved to a Buick, Pontiac, GMC dealer where I worked as a finance manager and sales manager. In 1997 I became general manager and part owner of a Chrysler Jeep dealership for 6 years. I started at a brand new Kia dealership in 2003 until 2014. From 2014 to present I have been the general manager for a Porsche, Audi, Volkswagen dealership.

[RocktimusPryme]

Just a little other side of the coin thing. In both my hobbyist and professional experience, the added electrical controls do actually help maintenance more than they hurt. More often than not, the car will tell you what is wrong with it. Planes are the same way. While I agree, that when the system breaks down, its a nightmare. I would say far more often the PCM code does lead you do what the issue is without a lot of trouble shooting.

But as was mentioned when a wire is burnt, or a ground is questionable it can lead to that most nightmarish of all scenarios......the intermittent fail...... Ive been there, it sucks. I still deal with it on the stuff I work with now. Imagine taking an entire wing off a plane just on the chance that you will find your bad wire or broken pin in there. It happens.

You gotta take the good with the bad though. It is nice when it just tells you that O2 sensor 1 is bad and you change it.


This probably contributes to companies feeling like they can hire lower skilled employees at less pay. Then when a real problem comes up that requires troubleshooting they put there one or two good people on it. Unfortunately this rarely results in reward for the individual with talent. They probably just get more work for the same pay.

[Formulabruce]

I worked at a Pontiac/ GMC/ Caddilac Dealership as a ( eventually) a ASE Certified mechanic in the later 70's, early 80's. I kept involved in that as I changed paths and went more into Electrical.
I have friends who still work at dealerships and like many industries they have been hiring folks with no skill, no natural abilities and based their job on a "Flow chart" which was basically made by the older techs who know how things work.
FLOW CHART techs= cheap labor
Experienced, and Good techs = RARE

[1969400HO]

Self taught mechanic, From the time my older sibling introduced me to a “ Spark plug”. (at the age of 12 in the early 70’s)

Learned all about cars & engines thru the VAST endless glut of $25-$50-$75 dollar chevy impala’s I rifled thru.
Too many to count, In the early 70’s, just to make them run, so I could drive to my $1.15 and hour gas pump jockey JOB!

Had street 428’s then Raced Ford 428SCJ car for years, did fairly well. Always had a "secret gazing eye" for the 69 F-Body cars out at the track !!

Took my talents / tack & tenacity into HIGH tech field to learn the extreme critical thinking route of mechanics and survived it for 28+ years.

[Wareagle]

Be cool to hear from Mechanics at Pontiac Dealerships that worked on SD-455's etc. in the 70's Tune ups etc. - then testing etc. - Talked to a guy who had his SD-455 Heads milled as one was warped - He said it sure woke it up

[Tom Vaught]

I WORKED ON TWO OF THEM 455 SD ENGINES A 73 ENGINE AND A 74 ENGINE.

Pontiac Engineering sent me all of the technical information for the engines.

I installed the RA-IV camshafts and required valvetrain parts in both of them.
I personally thought it was a mistake with the low compression ratio of the 455 SD engines.
Maybe Ken Crocie can give me the straight story on what worked on those engines, (modifications).
They had a record holder TA I believe. I am Not a 455 SD expert.

That was when I first became aware of HO Racing and their books/tips.

Tom V.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I WORKED ON TWO OF THEM 455 SD ENGINES A 73 ENGINE AND A 74 ENGINE.

Pontiac Engineering sent me all of the technical information for the engines.

I installed the RA-IV camshafts and required valvetrain parts in both of them.
I personally thought it was a mistake with the low compression ratio of the 455 SD engines.
Maybe Ken Crocie can give me the straight story on what worked on those engines, (modifications).
They had a record holder TA I believe. I am Not a 455 SD expert.

That was when I first became aware of HO Racing and their books/tips.

Tom V.

I agree. The 744 style cam they used was more suited to it, I believe. I even think, with the compression used, an 068 style cam, with 1.65 rockers would have been a better choice. I would love to hear Ken Crocie's take on this.

[mgarblik]

Couple of quick performance stories from my Pontiac dealer. Had a customer bring in an SD-455 in 1980 for a blower motor failure. The service manual had a procedure for cutting a 3 sided door in the inner fender to extract the motor. I got the job. I knew these cars were special and called the customer to explain how the dealer was supposed to fix it. He went ballistic on the phone and was back at the dealer in minutes. He handed me $100.00 and asked me to pull the inner fender and be extra careful. I was happy to repair the car correctly. That was allot of money in 1980. The second was a 68 4-door Bonneville 428 HO. Beautiful car, ran awful. Came in just completely carboned-up. The secondary butterflies wouldn't even open on the Q-jet. We cleaned the carburetor externally and with spray and ran an entire can of top engine cleaner through the engine mixed with water 50-50. There was so much smoke coming out the back I was sure the fire department was going to show up! After that, we took it up and down I75 performing our best "Italian Tune-up" When finished, that car was extremely strong. With 461 Ft. Lbs of torque, bias ply 14 inch tires and probably a 3.23 or 3.42 gear, it was easily a high 14 second car. I remember distinctly it would kick hard sideways on the 1-2 shift and stay loose for several seconds and then bark the tires again on the 2-3 shift at around 85 MPH. A fun day at work.

[70 bird]

Working on todays vehicles your an electrician.... without electricians pay! Should have listened to my parents 30 years ago! lol.