[Dragncar]

A fast Chevy is a fast Chevy. A fast Pontiac is just cool.

[bad69bird]

Originally Posted by opeliac

There is still something to be said for being able to run fast with a Pontiac...I dont have any desire to change brands at this point.

I couldn't agree more. The look on peoples' faces when they realize you are doing what you are doing with a Pontiac is proceless! lol

[Mark G]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

A fast Chevy is a fast Chevy. A fast Pontiac is just cool.

And fast is fast does not matter to me I just love fast cars period...

[taff2]

Poor quality control is poor quality control, we all moan about the Chinese rubbish quality control,but I see it all around the World, US, over here in the UK . The best way to make any manufacturer step up their game is to stop buying their products until they improve them, not say 'Oh, we should be grateful for what we can get'.
What about a guy like me , I build my own engines so can't blame the engine builder, an aftermarket block will owe me well over $5000 by the time it gets over here to me, trying to then get it fixed if it's faulty would be very expensive and time consuming. Send it back to the US to be fixed or replaced? Who's going to pay the $1000 shipping fees? And the $1500 import duty and taxes when it comes back in to this country? If the cast product is porous - find another foundry. I don't sell poor quality and I don't accept it.

[GTO Dan]

I think the manufacturers are doing the best they can at this price point. Their defective rates appear low. Are there going to be problems, absolutely. Will they get handled, I hope so but some apparently have not been.

I know this is not a nominal purchase for many but no one is getting rich making these things, they are not much over breakeven by the time you calculate all the costs in.

You have 4 choices at this time....AP, KRE, PMD or step up and show them how’s it’s done by offering your block.

I remember looking at an SD 455 in the early ‘90s that was $2k and in California so it was a sight unseen purchase. Glad there are other options, not perfect but what is? Especially in racing.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by John Langer

If we keep bashing manufacturers that make zero profit bringing a product to the market, they will stop. Then people will bash them that they don't make it anymore. If I spent $85k on a killer no expense race engine that was dyno tested and when I finally received it, it leaked water, I would bitch to the builder, not the part manufacturer. That's just me though.

No, that's not just you John. That's people who race low production custom race engines and realize that you have to work through problems to be successful. We would all love to have every part be perfect, never leak anything, last for years and win every race. Not very realistic though. I also agree with John about little to zero profit in these special hard engine parts for Pontiac's. Companies like All Pontiac make these parts because they LOVE Pontiacs. You could probably make a bigger profit delivering newspapers. If the defect is serious, talk to the vendor. If the defect is tiny, drop a couple GM tablets in the radiator just like GM does on the assembly line and go racing. BTW, we ran a 7lb. cap on our water cooled race cars.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Really, every set?
You must be unlucky...
Haven't heard anyone mention that on any Tigers, E's, CV1s, Hi-ports, etc.

You didn't mention Edelbrock. So I will add that ALL SIX of the first run E-heads we had for the Grocery Getter leaked water. 1 set had to be pressure ceramic sealed. The other 4, GM tablets took care of them. It seems when they began putting the castings through the HIP process, it helped allot.

[Sirrotica]

Quote from Jack Coronett, owner of Coronett racing engines, respected builder of high HP circle track engines, about every aftermarket cast block that they've used, iron and aluminum:

States Cornett, “ With the cast blocks we were experiencing a lot of cracking of these engines especially in the motor mount area. These engines see a lot of stress and the cast blocks just can’t handle it. You are not going to break or crack one of these billet aluminum blocks.”

This quote is from Dart, maker of after market blocks:

Rest assured, that Dart’s billet blocks are just what they promise starting with a 600-lb block of 6061 aircraft grade aluminum whittled into a small block engine form. From the initial shaping, the material is then heat treated to penetrate the surface of the material making it strong and yet retaining the lightweight features. It is then final machined to the owner’s requirements from there by the engine builder. These blocks avoid the porosity problems found with cast blocks where small gas bubbles are emitted during the curing process creating a less dense component and other inherent problems not found with billet construction.

That pretty much sums it up, if you want the best quality block, with no possibility of porosity, or weak areas you spend the big bucks for a billet block. The casting process gives off gasses when the molten material is poured into sand molds, the gas has to end up somewhere and if it doesn't come out of the mold it makes pockets in the solidified material. Sand casting is also susceptible to core shift, which has been a problem with any cast piece since parts were first cast.

If Dart can't make blocks without porosity, I wouldn't expect AP or KRE to be able to. GM has been casting engine blocks for over 100 years on a huge scale. Being a line tech at many GM dealers over the years, they haven't been able to eliminate porosity either.

I do agree that how a company handles a warranty claim is very important, but as has been stated, if your casting blocks, there are going to be areas that are porous no matter who casts the part.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by taff2

Poor quality control is poor quality control, we all moan about the Chinese rubbish quality control,but I see it all around the World, US, over here in the UK . The best way to make any manufacturer step up their game is to stop buying their products until they improve them, not say 'Oh, we should be grateful for what we can get'.
What about a guy like me , I build my own engines so can't blame the engine builder, an aftermarket block will owe me well over $5000 by the time it gets over here to me, trying to then get it fixed if it's faulty would be very expensive and time consuming. Send it back to the US to be fixed or replaced? Who's going to pay the $1000 shipping fees? And the $1500 import duty and taxes when it comes back in to this country? If the cast product is porous - find another foundry. I don't sell poor quality and I don't accept it.

You make some good points and your long distance situation adds a layer of difficulty for you personally. If I was in your position and wanted to continue doing this, I would talk to the vendor directly and explain your situation. I would arrange to have the block or heads high pressure tested at a reputable engine shop state side before it was shipped to you. Also a verification of critical dimensions should be done in the states. This extra inspection would probably add $300-400 to the cost of a block and about the same for a set of heads. Just a suggestion.
I know for a fact that Indian Adventures/All Pontiac have used at least 3 different foundry's over the years. Each has had some issues. Small mom and pop foundry's are the only choice for these tiny runs. Larger foundry's wouldn't touch a project like this especially with the booming economy. People who will accept only perfect low production race parts for their Pontiac's probably haven't been in the hobby 40 + years. It took almost 12 years to get the first Indian Adventures block from the serious talking stage to finished casting. Thank you Dick Ducklow and Tom. Where would we be with out you guys? In the same boat as the Buick faithful.

[Dragncar]

Can something as large as a engine block be investment cast ? Ping golf clubs are investment cast and of the best quality. So are Norris SS rocker arms.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Can something as large as a engine block be investment cast ? Ping golf clubs are investment cast and of the best quality. So are Norris SS rocker arms.

I dont know, can they.... you're the "millwright" ... so you claim... which is a punch in the face of actual Millwrights by the way..
Are you gonna ever explain Brian's engine failures?
Like I said, I wont stop asking until u answer..

P.s. dont fall back on this thread is about blahs blahs blah.... it has run its course and is done... so answer the question....
I like asking you questions by the way....you disappear for days when I do...

[Dragncar]

Some people have serious, serious issues. And need help. Normal folks, adults are trying to discuss something.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Some people have serious, serious issues. And need help. Normal folks, adults are trying to discuss something.

So why are you here then?
And when have you ever been the faster car to know what it's like to do the chasing? Heard you windowed your block spraying it to get your 10.9 slip

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Are you gonna ever explain Brian's engine failures?


...

I would like to hear about this also. I saw Slowbird sold his block and advertised it as "never been hurt". I know who bought the block and he never would've bought a damaged block. It's going to be a serious NA effort deal.

I heard Slowbird is going with a solid aluminum block, blown alcohol deal... Should be interesting.

I just got a solid aluminum block and a small bore aluminum block in. One is going to be a serious twin turbo build and the other is going to be a super charged street effort. Both are using Bryant cranks and GRP rods.

My brother is putting his stock block 464 in his car now and I advanced the cam a couple of degrees in my pump gas street car. I gasket matched the intake manifold on my Super Duty TA. I also changed the converter in my red car.... that one uses GRP aluminum rods.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I would like to hear about this also. I saw Slowbird sold his block and advertised it as "never been hurt". I know who bought the block and he never would've bought a damaged block. It's going to be a serious NA effort deal.

I heard Slowbird is going with a solid aluminum block, blown alcohol deal... Should be interesting.

I just got a solid aluminum block and a small bore aluminum block in. One is going to be a serious twin turbo build and the other is going to be a super charged street effort. Both are using Bryant cranks and GRP rods.

My brother is putting his stock block 464 in his car now and I advanced the cam a couple of degrees in my pump gas street car. I gasket matched the intake manifold on my Super Duty TA. I also changed the converter in my red car.... that one uses GRP aluminum rods.

Things are progressing nicely for me, got the new tires, will be testing in a little over a month.

[tom s]

This has been a long thread and im late to the dance.After building a engine and having the pan fill with water on the Westec dyno I dont build any engine without pressure testing the block and heads.FWIW,Tom

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by tom s

This has been a long thread and im late to the dance.After building a engine and having the pan fill with water on the Westec dyno I dont build any engine without pressure testing the block and heads.FWIW,Tom

You learn fast!

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

So why are you here then?
And when have you ever been the faster car to know what it's like to do the chasing? Heard you windowed your block spraying it to get your 10.9 slip

You narcissism is rearing its ugly head again.
No one in their right mind thinks I have windowed a block. Hence you post.
You are giving yourself way too much credit. Confusing yourself with being a person that I care what they think.
BTW, I race Pro AND Super Pro. I am chasing plenty of cars because I actually race. Mr. 4 year vacation. I wonder why ?

[Bill Eveland]

Could just spend the money and get the new Visner billet block

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Bill Eveland

Could just spend the money and get the new Visner billet block

60mm cam ? Some of the big dogs will make good use of it.