[R 70 Judge]

Hey at least we can all agree you guys can't quote posts for chit

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by mike leech

I get that the Grouping goes both ways. I'm not as simple or sheltered as you might think. However the grouping lines are drawn, you can't assign any other meaning then what i actually said or in this case wrote. If you want to believe i'm a hater then go ahead...I'll believe you're a believer....I've stated my opinion of the head clearly, and without emotional rhetoric. If you choose to believe otherwise that is your choice but it does not make what you choose true.

and i've given 0 effort to your pickle dilemma...I'm not into pickle comparisons.

Keep in mind I enjoy smack talking just like the next guy. I purchased a product because I thought fit my application better than the e-heads. You can lump me in whatever group you like, it makes no difference to me. I dont justify my performance or my lack of by one product.

But, I, and other will say, your constantly bashing a product along with a certain group of people make you out as though you "hate" the product.

BTW the pickle question doesnt have any reference to a male organ. Its a serious question, man up and give me a serious answer. Whats the worse that can happen?

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

Hey at least we can all agree you guys can't quote posts for chit

One retard gets it out of line and the rest follow suit. LOL

At least I tried to seperate it with a line so pickle juice could follow along.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by jdw_poncho

Keep in mind I enjoy smack talking just like the next guy. I purchased a product because I thought fit my application better than the e-heads. You can lump me in whatever group you like, it makes no difference to me. I dont justify my performance or my lack of by one product.

But, I, and other will say, your constantly bashing a product along with a certain group of people make you out as though you "hate" the product.

BTW the pickle question doesnt have any reference to a male organ. Its a serious question, man up and give me a serious answer. Whats the worse that can happen?

To be clear what i have a distain for is people getting all "its easy and you guys are just lucky". Whatever Product they are in love with. I'd bet that theres a lot of folks that were thinking their production run wide port eheads were going to make more than they actually made.

If you fellas went about things different and asked questions instead of making assertions and claims you'd get a different response. I hope you do set the world on fire....looks as though you're on the right track. still you have to do it though.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by jdw_poncho

One retard gets it out of line and the rest follow suit. LOL

At least I tried to seperate it with a line so pickle juice could follow along.

think your lines are what jacked it up there pickle sniffer.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by jdw_poncho

Perfect, thats what I wanted to hear. You dont want to give credit but you enjoy beating the other products down?

Did you ever take one of those personality tests for a job or when you was in the military?

If so, I have a question for you. If you were a pickle, would you rather be a sliced bread&butter or a dill spear?

Of course I did as well as security clearances, Aptitude testing, IQ ETC....where are you going with this? If there was a dreamer that couldn't keep up he'd of been out on that basis.

I'm not playing your pickle game. Thanks for the invite to your pickle party but not interested.

[John Langer]

Every time a new product is introduced to the Pontiac community it is greeted by haters. Anyone remember the Indian adventurers block. If a new product is hyped as the next best thing buy a group of nut swingers and never shows potential after numerous attempts or years of "r&d". It will be greeted unfavorably. If the new products performance is displayed with actual on track results, the negative comments go away.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by jdw_poncho

I dont have any knowledge of the deal you and Jim had, other than what I read here.

This is my "ECM" like response. So in other words you wanted to talk like you could play in the big pond but couldnt do any better for Jim than the race shop. I read somewhere if I take my heads to the right guy they will work? Im guessing you're not the right guy?

In other words you wanted someone to support you but he figured out you may not be a fish in the "big pond" like you seem to think you were, is, or was? SO (putting words in Jim's mouth) he dropped you and moved on since you couldn't get anything done in two years.

No. Jim offered the Race Shop, not me. He supplied the head. That was his commitment we discussed going the next step. Heads up power adder racing before X-mas. I think he found out the head wasn't doing was it was supposed to do early on and just quit. Didn't want to spend or didn't have anyone to deal with port wise at that time to do another set of heads. I didn't lead Jim to water. I didn't need Jim to support me. Bwahahahahahahaha.
They were his design, His port work deal, why wouldn't I wait and use his port guy???????

Everyone has a specialty and ya take advantage of those services. That's what Jim was doing.
One more time for the hearing impaired. I had noting to do wit the Race Shop deal. I only spoke to them 2 times. Initially and when I had then send the furbared heads to me. Had nothing to do with me. I then sent them to Gaby and found out what they really could do and actual numbers. I already spent 10 grand on parts waiting on Jim's part of our deal.

It was his deal. I offered Gaby to do the heads initially, (he checked out my original out of the box set and offered his thoughts on their capability, but that's another story), but he already had his deal in play.
I never saw the heads until after the fact. I sent the valves to the Race shop and they were NEVER taken out of the box for 6 months and return the same way........... sealed in there original container. That dude didn't even know they were titanium!!!!!!!!!!!
They were always......... being worked as Jim said. And I took Jim at his word.
I supplied the rest. People still have no clue as to what he designed the head to do initially. Nobody wants to spend the time to do past research. The plan was changed when it wouldn't work for his original intent. Nothing more nothing less. I spent hundreds of hours testing the CV-1's.
I already proved what I could do years earlier heads up. That's why I made the commitment to Jim. Before big flow number were being produced. Back then there were very very few heads up Pontiacs competing in stock suspension classes. No match racing each other at Pontiac events, etc. I could count on one hand all the truely heads limited rules Pontiac out there. Pontiac's were bracket racing. Times are different now so you can't apply now to then. I started the FIRST Heads up deal at a Pontiac Event at Maple Grove and then Butler picked up the Ball. I started the heads up street car deal at Virginia.
OH well, hope all works out for the Head. I promoted them and sold quite a few for Jim. Looks like more then anyone else with my testing and results. The issues it seems came later when statements were made by others how the world was gonna rotate on a different plane and everyone is still waiting 5 years later. At least I got instant TRACK results and actual info posted. They worked, just had limited results in the ORIGINAL intended usage.
Things change, different players and people that can spend more time and money.

Race Hard & Have Fun. I learned a hard lesson even after 30 plus years in this business at that time.
Lotta Jim Jones out there. LOL.

Done and moving on. Believe what ya want. The people that count know the whole REAL deal.

Hope his NEW CV-2 program works out better.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Just say the word ....GO..... and we can get you a 1000! And I would love to do it.

At how many cubic inches?

An E head has already track proven about 1030 HP with 499 cubic inches.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

At how many cubic inches?

An E head has already track proven about 1030 HP with 499 cubic inches.

Lil Jack,
That must of been before my time here. Do you have a link to a time sheet and vehicle information?

Thanks,
Stan

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Lil Jack,
That must of been before my time here. Do you have a link to a time sheet and vehicle information?

Thanks,
Stan

I am talking about King Kinsler:

8.42@159.55 @ 3250#

4.380 bore
4.150 stroke
499 cu in. Gaby ported E heads and BOP intake.
N/A
275 Drag Radial, turbo 400 trans.

EHTTFMF

[ponjohn]

My perspective was and still is....create a product and have it proven on dyno and in car. Then improve on that product for higher HP applications.

NOT create 15 different product offerings and not one of them were proven.

I was anxiously awaiting the small runner, small cubic inch results.....never materialized.
It always was put on the back burner to create another port to brag about and not test it on an engine.

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

At how many cubic inches?

An E head has already track proven about 1030 HP with 499 cubic inches.

In all seriousness I think I could do it with less than 499.

And no joke, I would like to do it , just to see for my self.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I am talking about King Kinsler:

8.42@159.55 @ 3250#

4.380 bore
4.150 stroke
499 cu in. Gaby ported E heads and BOP intake.
N/A
275 Drag Radial, turbo 400 trans.

EHTTFMF

Lil Jack,
Thank you for that information.

Stan

[Blued and Painted]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

Hey at least we can all agree you guys can't quote posts for chit

If there was a TALK SMACK section, the RACE section, (with sharing of knowledge and new ideas to promote the Pontiac Brand) would be closed for inactivity.

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

You can name me if you like Curt I wont be offended... Just a guess, I think the others wont be offended either. Seems more man to man that way.

If a small number of detractors would have shut there yap - it may have worked out too...

Yeah I posted a lot of info... countless times because I was correcting false narratives... I think you all know well who started the majority of the nonsense... Gach has done neither side of this any favors.

Did I speak potential or did I make guarantees?? Did I present truthful facts or were they lies? Did I correct myself when I found something to be different than I had previously thought was correct...yes, unless already corrected by others before I found out. I accepted correction.

I didnt take a blind leap of faith. I took an interest early on and saw some potential... Biggest mistaks were initially believin Charlie Sikes. And that was from being somewhat dumb, dumb enough to believe some of the stuff Gach was saying. (Maybe my meds at the time?) After that I took a more hands on involvement. One thing Charlie was right about... the head could move alot of air...just not in his hands and be correct. Unfortunately ol Charlie screwed Pdude and Jim.

Sorry Curt I'm not afraid to speak out against what I know is not true. I'm also going to take a stand for what and whom I believe. In person face to face, or dealing with some internet idiot who could be hidin in a closet somewhere pretending to be macho man while actually wearin womens clothes.

IMO we all share some responsibility here. Some more than others. Cant turn the clock back. We all need to stop trying to.

Bruce - I was NOT talking about you - to be honest there was so much of that crap for a while it just became white noise. BUT there were a couple of very -- very "aggressive" guys promoting the heads for a while and the way it was done really crawled up under some guys skin that was my point and still is. take care

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by john marcella

In all seriousness I think I could do it with less than 499.

And no joke, I would like to do it , just to see for my self.

I don't think you can.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Lil Jack,
Thank you for that information.

Stan

No problem Stan, just trying to move the Pontiac community forward.

In all seriousness what does you come up with on Jeff's junk?

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

My perspective was and still is....create a product and have it proven on dyno and in car. Then improve on that product for higher HP applications.

And how many new developers will simply skip over us because they simply can not afford to meet your requirement?

NOT create 15 different product offerings and not one of them were proven.

Not exactly true... there are product offerings in use and they have shown improvement over standard castings. Bench dyno and track... they may not have set records but if you look at the sum of the entire combo they are certainly an improvement. Had other heads shown similar results? Sure, but how much development time, and again, the entire sum of the combo?

I was anxiously awaiting the small runner, small cubic inch results.....never materialized.
It always was put on the back burner to create another port to brag about and not test it on an engine.

Not exactly... They(ports) are available to meet applications that would make best use of them.

Thus minimizing wait time should someones application call for a port of that capability.

Bill/Calvin arent so much about bragging as letting people know what is available and what capabilities the heads have.

BTW there are 2 small ci builds in the works. Comp eliminator style, NA... and serious pump gas NA. Funds are slow, most the pieces are there for the pump gas combo. (Not me btw) Some for the other.

In hindsight it looks to me like they didnt pass on enough info of what capabilities one would require for good use of a given port capability. Sure, many dont need the extra info, and many let someone else more knowledgeable help decide, IMO it would have been helpful for some.

Contrary to what you and others have been led to believe... Bills ports are of excellent design parameters, efficiencies etc., if starting with porters castings.

Std castings get notable improvements on the basic "tune-up" porting. Real estate permitting, the big flow heads have very very good to excellent port qualities for their size.
The standard castings arent defective, they have alot of capability. Much depends on how they are applied.

How they are perceived is notable as well. An early BES built cv1 street motor makes just as much if not more power than a Kasse built P51 head Ford at similar CI, both with similar COMPROMISED performance parameters(long term street use on pump gas not max power or engine master budget).
Obviously no one criticized because BES was involved, yet no one noticed(or ignored if they did) the parameters.. most any good shop could duplicate the results...

Yet more notably ignored... Here was a Pontiac shoulder to shoulder with a popular competitors brand with a head of similar ability NOT almost as good but equal to slightly better.

The std cast 4 intake is compromised for hood clearance street strip use. A couple of race single 4's are being exaluated... testing is promising but far from complete.

You ARE correct combo's need to be built and tested to "prove" them. They too want to get them built and "proven"...

Yeah its a shame a test like Fultons didnt occur much sooner than it did.

Its a damn shame some builds got criticized by some without really assessing the sum of the build itself, or in some cases, just openly lied and made up things as they went..

BTW has the economy been boomin the past 5 years??? Has it been shaky the past 7? My economy hasnt faired so well..
Tigers initially werent showin much... BUT a few invested heavily and showed otherwise. The economy was doing pretty darn good when that happened.

Available funds do matter. This isnt Edelbrock corp. Folks involved work at other things and do this on their free time. No way should they be expected to match resources and time tables of a large corporation.

Right now Jim will not produce new head castings. Maybe never.
Meanwhile builds are in progress... Admittedly slower than than most of us would like to see.

Results may indeed change the situation... only time will tell.

[LiL Jack]

Visner didn't skip over us.