[Mike Kasparian,Sr.]

It's worth it , just think of the money you would have to spend to properly prepare a 45 year old stock block for racing and you are still not sure if it is going to survive .

[Dragncar]

Get you math right. First it was a couple hundred grand and now its 30K ?? They have around 3 thousand into a block. Thats a total of around 6K to keep 2 spares for big race teams. Thats not going to make or break those companies. Not loosing a thing. Just have to hold onto the asset for a little bit, keep them in rotation. What is there to loose other than keeping customers who matter greatly, happy.
There is a need for it. Tom V has sold 3 to people in need of one and waited for his just to help people out from what I understand. Another influential PYer made mention of stockpiling blocks. Serious, dont know but there is a need for it.
And I know blocks were not the main reason for Curt jumping ship. Parts availability had to be part of it though. He paid a lot of money, lot of time into a top end that did not meet expectations. Man wants to race, cant fault him for that. Just hated seeing him go.
Blocks that are pushed hard break now and then, from every make. MR1s have, IA2 have spit or broke lifter bores. The idea that a team with a 50,000 engine should wait for 6 months, year to get a replacement is not good business sense. The Pontiac community was finally given a block to play with the other makes. Dont give a reason to regret spending big dollars on a Pontiac.
It would not cost them hardly anything at all. They still get their money.
The small time guy would not even know even know anything was up when they called for a block. Out of stock, deposit, put in line. But if a big name called and needed one ASAP, it would just be like" I know someone who just might have a block or two lying around". Done.

[Elarson]

We've always had 2 and sometimes 3 blocks on hand. We plan ahead on ordering so the spares are in hand in time.

I don't know Curt and don't want to pretend to represent him. But his many posts over the last few years primarily expressed frustration about trying to run a cutting edge Pontiac motor and then being dismayed that the necessary parts still needed development work. He dreamed of truly bolt-on high end parts. In the Pontiac world, that's hoping for unicorns. The BBC platform has already had hundreds of thousands of hours of working the bugs out and so was a better fit for the program Curt seemed to want.

Running a unique motor like a Pontiac (or an Oldsmobile, etc) takes a combination of patience and thirst for a challenge. I personally like the road less traveled and see the roadblocks as challenges.

BBC.....<yawn>
Nitro Hemi......<yawn>

But I don't fault anybody for feeling different.

Eric

[mysticmissle]

How are all these new heads going to find their way onto 800+ hp motors if there are no blocks?

[Jim Zeek]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Get you math right. First it was a couple hundred grand and now its 30K ?? They have around 3 thousand into a block. Thats a total of around 6K to keep 2 spares for big race teams. Thats not going to make or break those companies. Not loosing a thing. Just have to hold onto the asset for a little bit, keep them in rotation. What is there to loose other than keeping customers who matter greatly, happy.
There is a need for it. Tom V has sold 3 to people in need of one and waited for his just to help people out from what I understand. Another influential PYer made mention of stockpiling blocks. Serious, dont know but there is a need for it.
And I know blocks were not the main reason for Curt jumping ship. Parts availability had to be part of it though. He paid a lot of money, lot of time into a top end that did not meet expectations. Man wants to race, cant fault him for that. Just hated seeing him go.
Blocks that are pushed hard break now and then, from every make. MR1s have, IA2 have spit or broke lifter bores. The idea that a team with a 50,000 engine should wait for 6 months, year to get a replacement is not good business sense. The Pontiac community was finally given a block to play with the other makes. Dont give a reason to regret spending big dollars on a Pontiac.
It would not cost them hardly anything at all. They still get their money.
The small time guy would not even know even know anything was up when they called for a block. Out of stock, deposit, put in line. But if a big name called and needed one ASAP, it would just be like" I know someone who just might have a block or two lying around". Done.

OMG! Really?

"Get you math right. First it was a couple hundred grand and now its 30K ??"

A couple hundred grand to start you own company. 30K to have 6 blocks sitting in the corner waiting for John Force or some other big name to call.

"Thats a total of around 6K to keep 2 spares for big race teams. Thats not going to make or break those companies. Not loosing a thing. Just have to hold onto the asset for a little bit, keep them in rotation."

Sorry we can't sell these blocks because your not a big name race team and we need to have them in stock until the foundry decides to stop production of 1000 chevy blocks to make our 20 blocks so we don't run out.

" What is there to loose other than keeping customers who matter greatly, happy."

Sorry, your not a customer that matters greatly. Sorry your not happy. Again. Fail business 101.

"The idea that a team with a 50,000 engine should wait for 6 months, year to get a replacement is not good business sense."

The idea the the guy with a $10,000 should not get a block that is in stock because your letting it sit in the corner waiting for the guy with the $50,000 engine to call is stupid business sense.

"The small time guy would not even know even know anything was up when they called for a block. Out of stock, deposit, put in line. But if a big name called and needed one ASAP, it would just be like" I know someone who just might have a block or two lying around". Done."

Lying to a customer? That's about the dumbest thing I ever heard on this forum. Business and common sense failure.

[slowbird]

Who determines who the "big names" are?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Who determines who the "big names" are?

You, me and Robert.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Just have to hold onto the asset for a little bit, keep them in rotation. What is there to loose other than keeping customers who matter greatly, happy.
There is a need for it. Tom V has sold 3 to people in need of one and waited for his just to help people out from what I understand. Another influential PYer made mention of stockpiling blocks.

I never 'stockpiled' blocks from Bob and Frank.

I was fortunate to have a block coupon years ago that helped me buy the first block.

Then Bob called and said a guy needed one so I sold it to the guy, put the money back in the bank, and waited for Bob to tell me when they had their next upgrade to the block (with the blocks in production for that upgrade). So I go pick up the new block and bring it home and send Frank and Bob the money. Did this twice more. One time delivered the block to Bob and Frank at Norwalk. They had a customer.
Each time the new upgrades came, I bought the latest version. Still using basically the money from the block years earlier.

But this time I did not buy a Iron IA-2 standard deck block, I put my money into another project. I still own a All Pontiac Block from Bob and Frank, just not the one the man is after.

Tom V.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by mysticmissle

How are all these new heads going to find their way onto 800+ hp motors if there are no blocks?

We upped the safe horsepower level on the factory blocks.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

We upped the safe horsepower level on the factory blocks.

Luhn did a 863 HP 462 Vortech Supercharged engine years ago, never went over 5500 rom with the power number at 5300 rpm. So IT DEPENDS on what you are doing and how you do it. (900+ lbs/ft of torque).

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

We upped the safe horsepower level on the factory blocks.

BOOM, BOOM, BOOM! LMAO!


GTO George

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

So IT DEPENDS on what you are doing and how you do it. (900+ lbs/ft of torque).

Tom V.

^^^Truth^^^

[cgeise]

After reading this I thought I would throw in my 2 cents that's all I have left after spending all my money on that Chev'y. The specific reason I finally gave up was the inability to get the new - redesigned Tiger heads - they had been in the works for over 3 years and I was promised last that I would have a completed pair last thanksgiving. when they didn't show I had a number of conversations with Frank about a "real" delivery time. In mid December he told me that he had no idea when they would even be cast as the foundry was giving him the bone -- again. So there it is. With that being said I was trying to think back if I have ever had a vendor tell me he had ANYTHING available at order time to ship out -- and with very few exception I have to say no its always the foundry or this or that -- as stated above, I am NOT going to wait for a year to get a product so that I can enjoy my hobby -- And for those "business gurus" spouting off I don't see you mentioning the most important part -- the customer is KING -- Its a shame so many people want to participate using a Pontiac and cant.

[Tom Vaught]

As far as only the block deal goes, (just a comment based on personal information),
I have been to the place that receives the Pontiac IA-2 raw castings (iron and aluminum) and does the final machining on them.

It was a smaller place that bought up a bunch of the block machining equipment from the company that machined the first Duclow Blocks in the old Indian Adventures days.

Pontiac Motors did machining with this company at one time on prototype stuff so somehow Dick got a few of the Indian Adventures iron blocks machined up.

So now the Pontiac guys had an aftermarket block. But the original machining company went under and as I said the second company bought their equipment.

Bob and Frank went to this company when they started their first runs of blocks. Small outfit and small scale production as well as small demand for a $3,000 block.

So over the years the AP blocks have been cast up and machined by this second company in a somewhat timely manner. But then things changed.

The second company got the contract to machine all of the special General Motors aftermarket blocks. We are talking lots of LS type volume. They did some LS type head machining too for GM. They leased out at least 3 more buildings for this work. So now they are not a small potatoes company any more.

They had been doing some Pontiac Blocks, aftermarket FE Ford blocks, Aftermarket Buick blocks, etc for the little guys too.

So now the LS market is gigantic and they have MINIMAL time for the Pontiac guys, Ford FE guys, Buick guys block machining.
So if Bob and Frank ask for a time line, it always changes because "KING LS" controls the monthly payroll and machining schedule.

So the Pontiac guys are blaming the wrong people for no blocks, lots of promises, missed dates for racing, etc.
The LS boys have got us by the kuhanas.

You are correct Curt: "the customer is KING" EXCEPT that you are going up against Muhammad Ali (General Motors) and you will not even touch skin with your gloves on that deal because you won't get a fight date from the GM/Block machining people.

That is the way the deal works today. The Dairy Boys kick out a block here and there but Bob and Frank have probably had several times the number of block runs machined in the same number of years.

Tom V.

[cgeise]

Tom I don't ever remember placing blame on Bob or Frank on the blocks I know there " guy" is doing them no favors -- with that being said I am the kind of guy that like to find solutions to problems and not just sit back and let some one else dictate my Business future -- I would be knocking on doors and making relations ships with some one else that could help fill the gap. As far as the heads go I see NO reason for over a 3 year delay other than lack of interest or the funds to move it forward -- bottom line is I have moved on but its a shame these issues are killing the small "niche" groups that make hot rodding fun.

[GTOGEORGE]

[QUOTE=Tom Vaught;

That is the way the deal works today. The Dairy Boys kick out a block here and there but Bob and Frank have probably had several times the number of block runs machined in the same number of years.

Tom V.[/QUOTE]


TOMMY you have no clue what KRE does or how much they sell........its easy to pick on someone who isn't on the board.........DAMN, you're such a Jerk!


GTO George

[10second70GP]

Me personally I have no problem how Ap / kauffman racing order there blocks to me I couldnt be happier for what they have done for the Pontiac faithful and myself including all the other guys creating new heads and blocks as well . I like everybody else have had to wait for these Pontiac products to help me move to the next level. I'll never use the excuse to go BBC cookie cutter In my Pontiac . If I have to go chevy I'll go chevy in a chevy . I race on the street for 28 yrs and I love kickin that chevy ass 18-1 over last two years .We broke the 8 sec barrier on 93 pump gas , and now we are looking for 7 sec power on kill with new Marcella top end , I walk my own line ! Pontiac TTFMF !

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

TOMMY you have no clue what KRE does or how much they sell........its easy to pick on someone who isn't on the board.........DAMN, you're such a Jerk!


GTO George

George, be nice, Not picking on anyone not on the board.
The difference in production numbers came from Frank G. in one of our conversations at Norwalk in August so why don't you be nice in your reply. Passing on info from someone you respect (that is actually making the parts) carries a bit more weight with me vs your 'opinion' on the subject. You, maybe, know how many blocks KRE sells but do not have a clue on what Bob and Frank have sold over the years. You are just stirring up the chit, as usual. I made a post about why the Pontiac community has a hard time getting blocks on a regular basis. Why don't YOU just let it go?

Tom V.

[ho428]

So, I guess this thread shows there's no demand for Pontiac blocks?
Sorry couldn't resist.

[Tom Vaught]

You RESIST ALL YOU WANT, just race well, have fun, and kick the Ford and Chebby Guys butts on the tracks.

Road Racers have gorilla balls.

Tom V.