[mviker]

Hey guys,

I'm just wondering how difficult it might be to replace or repair my turn signal switch. The lever is kind of flopping around and I think also the source of a problem I'm having with the tail lights. I occasionally get flagged down by people telling me that I have a burnt out tail light. I've gone through all my wiring and have no issues there plus the tail lights do work albeit intermittantly. I think the floppy lever is a symptom of this issue.

I've pulled the steering wheel before to look at this, but it appears I may need to pull the column to get the switch out. Is this right? Typically, when I've pulled the steering wheel before, the screws holding the switch down were loose. I'd tighten them back up and there would be less flop in the lever, but I've never been able to get rid of the play completely, leading me to think the switch needs replacing. Anyone else had this experience and care to impart some wisdom on the subject?

Thanks as always!

Kevin

[stevep]

I believe that the actual switch is mounted on top of the column down near the firewall.

[mviker]

Originally Posted by stevep

I believe that the actual switch is mounted on top of the column down near the firewall.

Steve...Right you are, however this all seems to be giving me grief from the top. I know what you're referring to though. Of course, it's possible the flopping lever isn't the cause of the intermittant tail light, I's still like to fix the lever. I have fiddled around with the switch at the base also, but I'm fairly confident it's not part of the trouble.

I'd like to try solving the flopping lever first, then see how things go from there. I'm really hoping I won't need to pull the entire column to solve this. Seems like a loose or shorted wire somewhere in the column. That or hopefully, the turn signal mech at the top. I can jiggle the lever and the tail lights seem to react to that, so it's either something worn or broken up there. At least, that's my guess.

Kevin

[rohrt]

I can't speak to the GP but my 64 tempest turn signal switch was busted to hell and floping around. It also messed with my tail lights working.

[mviker]

Originally Posted by rohrt

I can't speak to the GP but my 64 tempest turn signal switch was busted to hell and floping around. It also messed with my tail lights working.

well, that makes me feel better believe it or not. I've been through the entire car eliminating problems, but this one haunts me constantly. replaced the entire harness, gone through a bunch of bulbs, checked grounds until I was blue in the face. I had a buddy come by and we were tinkering with the lever and that's when we put 2 & 2 together and realized that it's most likely the lever issue. Now, I need to get it apart without tearing the entire column apart if possible to fix it. I don't see any obvious stuff aside from the flopping, but maybe the "cam" up there is bent or out of whack somehow. hoping I can fix it without too much trouble.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Deadhead]

Kevin!

I have had '63-66 apart. You may have a broken spring or two. I think your style has the tension springs that go in the face of the column and act as a cam with stops/indents on them to hold the lever in position. They are often broken. Rest. Specialities may have these. They have a bunch of springs. I don't remember seeing them in my recent go-round through their catalog, but check it out. The springs are right on top & 2 make a broken circle. You should be able to see if they are broken or not without tearing too far in to it. If they have been broken a long time, they could now be down in the column, gone altogether or just pieces left.

I don't think you will have to take the whole thing apart if you do not want to. Take the horn assembly and wheel off should get it. As long as you do not have a tilt column, it is not bad at all. Might actually be easier to work on in the car as long as you are not Sasquatch like. I have torn them apart, repaired, painted and put back together in a few hours. Removing the column from the car obviously only takes a little longer. 4 more bolts.

As for the tail light issue - could be that if the whole mess is flopping around that your wire may have worn or come loose inside the column. Could then be going to ground and the short could be causing the lights to come on or not work?

[mviker]

Hey Bruce!

Good info. Yeah, I've had the steering wheel off many times. Played with the actuator part you're talking about, but have never gotten it off the column. I wasn't sure the horn wire disconnects, but a buddy tells me it does, so I'm going to dig into it again and see about getting further down. I think you're right. I've seen the springs you mention, but not enough to tell if they're broken or not. I found a replacement actuator but it's not cheap. This may be a good junkyard part candidate. Check out the link. It's an NOS one but they want $145.00 for it. Shew!

http://www.oldsobsolete.com/products...-yoke-1951812/


I'll check mine out again and have a look at those springs. I'll check Restoration Specialties too. If the springs are available, that's even better.

Thanks Man!

Kevin

[Engine-Ear]

Kev,

IMO, from my experience (FME), A loose signal lever is some loc-tite and a screwdriver away from a fix.

Also, if you have tail lites that are out, don't think it's directly related...the dome of the bulb contacts in the T/L sockets deserve a closer inspection.

H T H

[TSMartin]

By now you've probably found the answer but figured I'd take a shot just to see. If the 3 mounting screws are tight my guess would be the detent spring in the housing or detent stud on the cancellation cam are broken.

TS

[mviker]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Kev,

IMO, from my experience (FME), A loose signal lever is some loc-tite and a screwdriver away from a fix.

Also, if you have tail lites that are out, don't think it's directly related...the dome of the bulb contacts in the T/L sockets deserve a closer inspection.

H T H

Matt!

I'd be inclined to think it might be the socket, but I've been through all that both with the old wiring and the new. fiddling with the TS lever does seem to affect the lights too. Either way though, I'd like to get the flopping lever fixed. If it solves the tail light prob, then I've killed two birds with one stone! It's a long shot, I know. It will be good to get the lever straight and I'll have one less thing to blame the tail light on. We'll see. Time is kind of short for me right now. This little project might be another week or two before I can get around to it. will letcha know.

Kevin

[mviker]

Originally Posted by TSMartin

By now you've probably found the answer but figured I'd take a shot just to see. If the 3 mounting screws are tight my guess would be the detent spring in the housing or detent stud on the cancellation cam are broken.

TS

TS,

No. Still haven't had a chance to get into this yet, but I'll check that spring out for sure. Thanks for info. As soon as I get the time, I'll check it out.

Kevin

[Engine-Ear]

Hey Kev, it's a long-shot, but replace your flasher unit with a new one. Seriously. My '69 GP's quirky electrics fell right into line with that one.

[Repoman]

I just fixed the same problem on my 63. The lever is held snug by the signal switch which is mounted on the column under the dash. There are two bolts that hold the plastic switch on, and a metal clip that connects to the plastic shaft going up to the signal lever.
Get under there and get a good look at it, you may be able to reach up and reset the clip without taking anything apart. However, what I did was take off the steering wheel, and push the rod down into position for the clip to attach. There is a little hole in the shaft you have to locate for the clip. Took me about 30 minutes.

[Derbs24]

Hey Kevin, hope you got this fixed. I had the opposite problem on my '62 a year ago. had to stand on the turn-signal switch to get it to work and then it wouldn't auto-cancel. Also had squeaky steering bearings. It's real easy to take everything apart, the only special tool I needed was a steering wheel puller. Cleaned up and lubed the eccentric (cam) portion inside the wheel and repacked the upper steering bearings. Took off the 2 screws like Repoman said and the whole switch was in my hand. It's on top of the steering column directly above your shoes. I little traveling rod goes from the eccentric in the middle of the wheel, down the steering column and a little finger pops out and connects to the turn signal switch to push it left or right. This is one cool little switch! Took it all apart and there are 3 brass sliders inside the t/s switch, on springs and detents. I cleaned the 50-yr old grease out of them, polished everything up with scotchbrite, lubed with light oil and put it all back together...it works like 1962 again! Even the auto-cancel works now. If those little springs are squished, they will not put firm pressure against the detents and the whole switch will be loose when you slide it by hand. I played with mine to get the tension just right. I had just the switch in and out a few times. Be careful as those parts are very small. There might be a problem elsewhere too, but you'll see it for sure.
My tailights still flicker occasionally, but when I wiggle the socket against the tailight housing, they are fine again. Not the best fit, so I lose ground occasionally and they flicker. Still working on perfecting that area.
Anyway, you probably solved it by now, but I wanted to add my $.02 so someone reading this post down the road doesn't hesistate to tear into it. I learned to love my old Pontiac that much more over the turn-signal switch. So many things were serviceable back then. If I remember correctly, the T/S Switch even said "Delco" and "Made in the USA" inside the housing somewhere.

[Deadhead]

I sent you a PM to see if some parts I have might fix your Prob. Just found them Sat.

[mviker]

Originally Posted by Derbs24

Hey Kevin, hope you got this fixed. I had the opposite problem on my '62 a year ago. had to stand on the turn-signal switch to get it to work and then it wouldn't auto-cancel. Also had squeaky steering bearings. It's real easy to take everything apart, the only special tool I needed was a steering wheel puller. Cleaned up and lubed the eccentric (cam) portion inside the wheel and repacked the upper steering bearings. Took off the 2 screws like Repoman said and the whole switch was in my hand. It's on top of the steering column directly above your shoes. I little traveling rod goes from the eccentric in the middle of the wheel, down the steering column and a little finger pops out and connects to the turn signal switch to push it left or right. This is one cool little switch! Took it all apart and there are 3 brass sliders inside the t/s switch, on springs and detents. I cleaned the 50-yr old grease out of them, polished everything up with scotchbrite, lubed with light oil and put it all back together...it works like 1962 again! Even the auto-cancel works now. If those little springs are squished, they will not put firm pressure against the detents and the whole switch will be loose when you slide it by hand. I played with mine to get the tension just right. I had just the switch in and out a few times. Be careful as those parts are very small. There might be a problem elsewhere too, but you'll see it for sure.
My tailights still flicker occasionally, but when I wiggle the socket against the tailight housing, they are fine again. Not the best fit, so I lose ground occasionally and they flicker. Still working on perfecting that area.
Anyway, you probably solved it by now, but I wanted to add my $.02 so someone reading this post down the road doesn't hesistate to tear into it. I learned to love my old Pontiac that much more over the turn-signal switch. So many things were serviceable back then. If I remember correctly, the T/S Switch even said "Delco" and "Made in the USA" inside the housing somewhere.

Hey Jason!

Thanks for the breakdown. I haven't gotten into anything yet, but will do so soon. We just had a snowflake blow through here the other day and VDOT promptly began salting all of Northern Virginia in an attempt to melt it before some lucky soul hit it and caused a traffic jam. LOL! That means driving the old girl is out until we get a good rain or Spring comes along. Plenty of time to get going on this pesky problem. I hope to get going soon and will take your experience to heart when the time comes! I may have a 63 column on hand for parts as well thanks to Bruce (Deadhead). We're still trying to determine how close the two years are parts-wise, bit I'd bet both columns share at least a few goodies.

I've had my column out a couple times, but was trepidacious about tearing it apart. Guess I'll get over that and see what can be done. This has been a long time issue that I keep shoving to the back burner. This will be the year it gets fixed. Will post what happens here as I go.

Thanks for the info!

Kevin

[mviker]

Just a quick update. We had some great weather yesterday so I took the time to dig into the car and managed to make some good progress.

You guys were spot on with the switch. After removing, cleaning, and reinstalling, I think the trouble with my brake lights has gone away! I'm also feeling a much more positive action when using the lever. There's still some minor play, but it feels very solid and operates as it should nw. I also replaced the gauge cluster, put in a new clutch rod boot, and replaced a badly worn rag joint that could have resulted in having a very bad day.

Most everything is back together except some minor stuff. Got everything I was hoping to fix done, so life is good!

Jason, Repoman...Thanks for the heads up on the switch. I still need to verify brake lights, but I can tell already that there's a major improvement. I also cleaned and lubed the mechanism up where the lever is.
I took extra care reinstalling the column also to ensure no unnecessary strain on the rag joint and got it to where it fits a lot better to the steering wheel.

Big thanks to all of ya!

Kevin

[Stu Norman]

My tail lights on my 1963 GP gave me fits, until I swapped the sockets for the "Ford" style socket. The Fords used fingers to put pressure on the mounting hole, instead of the tabs used for the GM style. That creates a better ground for the lamps.

[Deadhead]

Not only that - they put a spade on the side so you could hook up a ground directly to it!

[mviker]

Stu...I think I should be ok on the wiring. I installed a new M&H harness year before last. I've yet to know for sure, but there's a definite improvement in the turn signal operation. Just need to get a buddy to check the brake lights while I step on the pedal. Also need to drive around and see if people yell at me for the bad brake light. I won't say I'm out of the woods yrt, but I feel confident about it this time around. This has been dogging me for years. I'll remember your rec if I still have problem though.

Hoping to have the car back together in the next day or two and take her out on the road maybe this weekend if the weather's good. Should know soon!

Thanks!

Kevin