[Rob B]

I bought the e-heads I have now, that I plan to run on my new motor, off a member/contributor to this forum back in the fall of 2012. When I purchased them, they were supposed to be assembled and ready to bolt on but in some confusion, that didn't happen, at the time no big deal. I received the heads finished CNC'd, seats done, with the valves and nothing else. Now that everything else with my car is going back together at a steady pace, it's time to set the motor in finally so I can get some other stuff taken care with the car itself.
As stated in my other thread, I'm using my old cam for now, so I just bought new springs, the same as I was using on my old motor with my old e-heads. Well after getting my spring locators and the 614 keepers (that give you an extra .050 of installed heigh)t, I still don't have enough clearance to get to the installed height I want/need. I also find out that the valves supplied were 2 different lengths, exhaust valve is roughy 5.25" and intake is roughly 5.30".
Comp says 925 springs @ 1.90", my seat pressure will be 111lbs, @1.85", pressure is 131lbs. I'm trying to shoot for something in between there to achieve pressure in the 120-125lbs range. Can't get there on the exhaust side. The tightest IH on the exhaust is 1.78" and the largest is 1.817". That put seat pressure on the exhaust side based upon Comps pressure chart for my spring in the 160-170lbs range, way to much! Intakes were all at 1.885+/- .002". All these measurements were with the .060 Inside spring locators.
Checking with a dial indicator, gross valve lift was .601 on intake and .613 on exhaust using a 1.65 with lash adjusted. (Check gross lift with zero lash only changed the measurement by roughly .010. lash is .018In/.020ex cold.
I really don't want to get in a pissing match or finger pointing issue with the person/shop I bought these off of nor anyone else on this board but if that individual wants to PM or call me, go for it, or anyone want to contact me directly and not reply to this post that's fine also, I'll listen to anyone. So my question is, do I take and have the spring pockets opened up a little on the exhaust or have both done equally and run a little more shim under the Intakes? That would probably require the guides removed which intern screws up the valve job on the seats or do I replace the exhaust valves to match the intakes so I don't have potential issues with geometry? Do I remove the spring locators on the exhaust only and run a .015 hardened shim to protect the pockets??? Ideas?? My old heads DID NOT have locators under the springs. KRE finished those for me back in 2002 and ran those heads for 10 years on the same springs, never had an issue with them.
I only plan on running this top end set up for the remainder of this year once the car is back together. Next year, then I'll more than likely switch from the flat tappet I have now to a little more agressive roller setup so the heads will have to be taken back apart then anyway.
Ideas? suggestions? I'm really leaning to no locators under the exhaust for now just to get by unless I can get the same height exhaust valve to replace the ones I have. Only revved old motor to 6000-6200, anything more didn't really make a difference and don't see any reason for that to change with the new motor with this set-up.
Cell#513-289-3130, Home #812-637-0400. Would sure love to hear from a special someone.

[BruceWilkie]

I dont want to be someone special lol... yes locators are better than shims BUT shims are better than nothing between spring and aluminum... if it ran ok before it should run ok now... its darn near July... I think Id do it and address the issues after race season.

PS I like seat pressure in the 140-150 range with solids if I can get it.

(surprisingly 145-ish is working on Debs hydraulic 60916 cam ok... springs have been in there 10 years now, probably lost alot by now, but cam looked good last year when I had intake off. I had the springs from another motor. Think they are Ersons but could be Crane)

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

I dont want to be someone special lol... yes locators are better than shims BUT shims are better than nothing between spring aminum... if it ran ok before it should run ok now... its darn near July... I think Id do it and address the issues after race season.

PS I like seat pressure in the 140-150 range with solids if I can get it.

(surprisingly 145-ish is working on Debs hydraulic 60916 cam ok... springs have been in there 10 years now, probably lost alot by now, but cam looked good last year when I had intake off. I had the springs from another motor. Think they are Ersons but could be Crane)

Yeah, car should have been last year but decided to get stupid with it while I had it apart. One thing leads to another I guess. being able to sneak the wife's out to race didnt help either.

[2manyponchos]

Big solid roller now and be done with it! By the time you look at another set if springs/gaskets/etc. just do it now.

That's not much seat pressure for the lift you are running.

[2manyponchos]

925 springs have coil bind at 1.100. If you are at 1.78 installed height, that gives you .680 spring travel before bind. Lift is .623 with no lash, leaving .047 to coil bind in the tightest exhaust. I'd set them all there and run it. Springs are happiest near coil bind and valve train is more stable. Pontiacs like seat pressure! Bet you will find it pulls past 6200 with more seat pressure.

[2manyponchos]

Not sure on valve lengths, my heads have Ferrea 6177 exhaust valves at 5.230 and corresponding 6175 intakes at 5.213.

[2manyponchos]

My comments above likely apply more to rollers. I wouldn't be scared running around 130 on the seat with your cam or even a little more like Bruce suggested.

[Old Goat Racer]

As my Dad used to say, "Back to the drawing board".
Do it right the 1st time. You did 10 years ago.
I was going "Duck hunt'in" at Norwalk, But if you ain't ready..........
Be nice to Carol & maybe you can drive her car.
The can of worms is open LOL

[john marcella]

You can get +.050 retainers as well as the keepers.

[Rob B]

Had a nice and informative phone call with another member from the board, I really appreciated that. I think the best thing to do is drop the bare heads off and have the spring pockets cut on the exhaust and then set the pressure from there. If it was a roller, that would be one thing but its not. Seat pressure needs to stay in the 130 range. Big roller comes next year. To much money went into other parts of the car itself first but I am happy on how its turning out.
If anyone ever tells you that its faster to just back half a car over mini-tubbing, Listen to them!!!!

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by john marcella

You can get +.050 retainers as well as the keepers.

Was looking at comps catalog earlier, didn't see any. Recommendations? I have the 741 retainers for now. +.050's would be awesome and a lot easier!

[john marcella]

Also cutting the spring pockets is done with the guides installed, guide is used as a pilot and locating.

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by Old Goat Racer

Be nice to Carol & maybe you can drive her car.
The can of worms is open LOL

She got mad when I took it out last month when she was on a business trip and then a couple of kid trips and made it to the semi's with it one of the weeks. I made it worse by sending a picture of a time slip with a .000 light. so I'm not allowed to sneak it out anymore....

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Was looking at comps catalog earlier, didn't see any. Recommendations? I have the 741 retainers for now. +.050's would be awesome and a lot easier!

I don't use comp. so I don't know. Are they steel or TI? Doubt they are available in steel.

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Also cutting the spring pockets is done with the guides installed, guide is used as a pilot and locating.

That's what I figured but last time I did anything like that was 25 years ago on cast iron junk. Just thru that out there in case I missed something in that last 25 years.

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by john marcella

I don't use comp. so I don't know. Are they steel or TI? Doubt they are available in steel.

Steel. It would probably be cheaper to cut the pockets than to buy 8 titanium retainers.

[2manyponchos]

Comp makes an offset retainer. I remember looking at them. Guessing if you do an offset retainer and offset lock, you will need lash caps so you have rocker clearance. That will require a compatible lash cap. At end of day, cheaper to cut the pockets most likely.

[cgeise]

Manley has a whole page of these different retainers in there online catalog

[gtofreek]

I would get longer exhaust valves to match the intake. Otherwise you will have to have two different length pushrods in order to keep the geometry good on both. I wouldn't cut the spring pockets as that is just a bandaid for the real problem. Personally, I hate having heads with intake and exhaust stem heights being different. I like all valve tips to be at the same level.

Also, if this is a hydraulic flat tappet cam, 120-130 is the minimum pressure I would run on the seat. If it is a solid flat tappet, 150-160 would be fine, especially if the cam is already broken in. We have a solid flat tappet cam engine at work right now for a spring freshen up. That engine has 185/405 lbs. still on the old springs. No cam issues. It's also running the lifters with the oil hole in the foot.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Rob B

She got mad when I took it out last month when she was on a business trip and then a couple of kid trips and made it to the semi's with it one of the weeks. I made it worse by sending a picture of a time slip with a .000 light. so I'm not allowed to sneak it out anymore....

Im still in dog house for takin Debs car to end of season cruise last fall while she was at work! She took my key!

Do it right if you can, but IMO you could get by short term.

fwiw seat pressure doesnt have as much effect on cam wear as over the nose pressure. The heads/springs on Debs car were on my old 440 combo with solid cam... around .570" net lift... cam wear wasnt an issue on that and so far no issue on the little Crower hyd in Debs car. Both cams I used standard hyd/solid lifters "cool face" was kind of new when I did Debs, not known when I had the 440 combo... I've always run STP since a chevy cam went on me in the 70's.