[Overkillphil]

[QUOTE by PONTIAC DUDE] "Talk about a 360. LOL"


Ken, a 360? So it's going the exact same way all along? Sorry Ken, I couldn't resist...

BTW, Cheers everyone and Happy Easter, et al.

[Motor Daddy]

"People with great minds talk about ideas.

People with average minds talk about events.

People with small minds talk about other people."

[Ccass]

For years, I personally was the only moderator for the forums. When the forums grew, it became clear that the task of monitoring such a large site was impossible. Several long time members volunteered to first help, and now almost completely, moderate these forums. I still consult and advise the mods to have them try and emulate my moderation style, thoughts, beliefs and convictions. To have this work flawlessly is another impossibility. For any of you to believe this is some kind of organized collusion by the mods, you should concentrate on who really killed Kennedy. Also, the notion that we are always concerned about lawsuits is highly overrated. I have basically ignored dozens of lawsuit threats to protect members posts from deletion.
Our policy is and has always been to only allow 1st hand complaints be voiced on the forums. Additionally, 1st hand posts that are old, serve no useful purpose. If a supplier is that bad, there should be enough current complaints to give readers the true picture of what is in store for them if they do business with an entitiy. I have deleted more 2nd hand posts about BF than I care to imagine. Because of his personality, yes there are a lot of individuals who take pleasure 'piling on' and therefore it would take an army of mods to remove all the 2nd hand posts about him. You can help. If you see a post that is not 'current' 1st hand, notify the mods before a topic spins out of control. It's very time consuming to read and then selectively delete posts of large topics while not deleting quality information of the other posts. That's why many times, the topic just gets closed or deleted all together.

[dyingbreed]

Pontirag,
Owwwwwwwwwww, You make my head hurt dude! I can easily envision you as one of those stereotypical southern preachers.

db

[Pontirag]

Every body keeps saying that this or that only works in a perfect word or that idealisticaly blah blah blah. Thats a cop out.by censoring the victims it is attempting to create a perfect world where ther are no whiners or complainers or victims. Well in the real world there are victims and ther are victims among those who complain and there are creeps and scum who victimise the newby's. Should the rest of us stand by and let the newby's see if its safe to go back in the water? in terms of weather a vendor has desided to go clean and be honest.

This is not a perfect world and no outcome is certain but we increase the odds in our favor by educating each other. Is not this the information age? What is the purpose of this forum if not to inform or educate. its ironic that censorship is used by moderators to creat the perfect little world here on this forum when we keep hearing that its not a perfect world, others have said that my rant indicates the expectations of a perfect and or ideal world. Its not me that is controlling the flow of information.

One look at the Soviet Union over the past 50 years will tell us what we should be concerned about if a few limited number of individuals controll the flow of information we need to make choices. This site has evolved in just the last 6-8 month because of this strange phenomenon. Its interesting that while we all agreed to certain terms in order to be a member of this site the moderators one certainly and perhaps more seem to be above the rules they impose upon us.

I got burned for something I did wrong. Those little red warning things that pop up every time my name does is proof of that. But I see a select little group of people doing the same thing or worse and nothing happens to them. I see moderators who should be demonstrating by their own actions those behaviors they demand and impose upon us but its not there. I see an clear bias, an imballance and an unfairness inthe way certain threads are handled.whereas others are not handled in the same maner.

I could care less about FB. I did business with him twice, first time ok second time I got burned. not alot of money but i got burned. that makes me a victim none the less and i should be allowed to express my opinion on doing business with this person. I dont need or requir validity from anybody on this site for that. And frankly i dont mind other peoples personal digs about this person. they make me laugh and why not? I'm over it and I moved on. I do feel strongly that if there are other victims out there they have a right to speak out. If they got burned worse then they should speak louder. Nobody wants to hear a whiner and a complainer you nor I.I guesse we can censor them or keep them from being victims in the first place. Which comunity do we want the Pontiac community to evolve into. There will always be whiners and complainers.Lets reduce that population by dealing with the fraud. If we eliminate the scammers rip off artist and flim flam guys. Then it will be a better world. not perfect.but better.

As for REK, There was a thread here a while back on quality of head work. I almost bough a set of heads but passed when i read that thread. a friend was also going to buy thier heads. I went to show him the thread on this site and it was gone. POOF. GONE! he bough thier heads. There were several issues with thier heads. No big deal but when he called them to address the issues that existed. that when he found out what he got vs what he paid. I almost bought a engine block. was going to pay cash at a car show for one but it was thier floor model. alot of hype. i did not buy it but i wanted to. Later the quality issues came out and I am thankfull. They dont go for much on EBAY so I woild have been stuck.

So who is the victim in these incidents? A person who missed a thread that was pulled and bought heads that had issues? A persom who almost all bought a block and even after that incident seriously considered buying heads untill the similar issue occured again. Almost but not quite. Could I be considered a victim even though luck alone prevented worse.

The point is that those of us who are scammed are victims but those of us who have the potential to become victims are also victims. Untill the scammers redeam them selves and make it right for the victims we all have the potential to be a future victim. and it is horrifying to think that some would allow a newby to test the waters to see if the scam artist have changed thier ways.

Scammers and and scum should not presume they have the right to continue to be a member of this community with out resolving the issues they created. Once they do that it will be much easier to determine who the whinner and complainers are.
We need to protect new people comming into this community and show some solidarity. they are the future and if we dont nurture them then all of this will die out.

Moderators police your own. If we are not permited to use profanity why should you.
If we have a specified location where we can post pictures of semi draped women why must we see a pair of **** every time we go somewhere on this forum.A 7 year ols girl looks to me for validation when I introduce her to this site and she see's **** over and over and over. How com this moderator inflicts his standards upon us while ignoring the same standards PY instills in him as a moderator. PY ARE YOU LISTENING?

And if I can get a red mark for my mistakes(wrongfull that it was) why do Moderators get to offend every veteran who fough in WWII and discrace this country and this site and get away with it. Why should they insult visitors to this site from other countries? How does that have anything to do with pontiacs other than you offended veterans on this site and that you did it on this site.

How is it that when a certain thread is located in the wrong area a moderator has the capability to relocate it but if it seems to offend the same cetain vendor it gets deleated. Or even if it starts off in the business entities section it still gets deleated or locked. More so when other and other issues dont get the same treatment. And because you deleated a valid thread some one else got scammed.

PY also has a advertising section, why must we constantly see the same one or two individuals constantly promoting thier products elsewhere? as if that is not enough when sombody contradicts them in the middle of a "sale" they get slammed or flammed. Why is that permitted. perhaps the moderators spend too much time protecting scammers (them selves include)
PY does not endure our wrath. it is a forum where people share opinions and ideas. Moderator must choose from among us those who espouse that high standard. they must live up to that standard befor they have a right to abitrarily and subjectivly inflict it upon us while flaunting the fact that they dont behave in a similar manner.

Im not talking about all members of this forum, I'm not talking about al moderators. I'm not talking about all vendors. But ther are a few of you you have diminished PY's efforts to make this a wonderful site. Your own behavior, the behavior you tolerate in others hurts Pys' efforts and puts this site at some level of risk. You dont have the right to do so and I am certain, absolutly certain that if PY knew the character of those imposing its rules the would have pause for consideration. It PY knew how the rules were imposed they would have pause for consideration. I wonder, just from a statistical perspective how the community here has changed in the last 6-8 months. That should give PY pause for consideration.

Moderators CLEAN HOUSE! CCASS I agree with every thing you have said and would like to point out that there are patterns of misuse of authority. I dont think there are conspiracy's going on. I think good moderators are overwelmed while one moderator demonstrates a continued pattern of abuse of the privilege.Frankly I think he ought to be doing time. Law suits are a cop out. REK stoops to that to avoid responsability. I must ask based again on the pattern of behaviors why REK threads are almost always deleated. maybe its not a conspiracy but perception is a very powerful visual aid.people are creatures of habit. Me, You...... them. When patterns develope it indicated human involvement. Nuff said, clean house.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

Every body keeps saying that this or that only works in a perfect word or that idealisticaly blah blah blah. Thats a cop out.by censoring the victims it is attempting to create a perfect world where ther are no whiners or complainers or victims. Well in the real world there are victims and ther are victims among those who complain and there are creeps and scum who victimise the newby's. Should the rest of us stand by and let the newby's see if its safe to go back in the water? in terms of weather a vendor has desided to go clean and be honest.

This is not a perfect world and no outcome is certain but we increase the odds in our favor by educating each other. Is not this the information age? What is the purpose of this forum if not to inform or educate. its ironic that censorship is used by moderators to creat the perfect little world here on this forum when we keep hearing that its not a perfect world, others have said that my rant indicates the expectations of a perfect and or ideal world. Its not me that is controlling the flow of information.

One look at the Soviet Union over the past 50 years will tell us what we should be concerned about if a few limited number of individuals controll the flow of information we need to make choices. This site has evolved in just the last 6-8 month because of this strange phenomenon. Its interesting that while we all agreed to certain terms in order to be a member of this site the moderators one certainly and perhaps more seem to be above the rules they impose upon us.

I got burned for something I did wrong. Those little red warning things that pop up every time my name does is proof of that. But I see a select little group of people doing the same thing or worse and nothing happens to them. I see moderators who should be demonstrating by their own actions those behaviors they demand and impose upon us but its not there. I see an clear bias, an imballance and an unfairness inthe way certain threads are handled.whereas others are not handled in the same maner.

I could care less about FB. I did business with him twice, first time ok second time I got burned. not alot of money but i got burned. that makes me a victim none the less and i should be allowed to express my opinion on doing business with this person. I dont need or requir validity from anybody on this site for that. And frankly i dont mind other peoples personal digs about this person. they make me laugh and why not? I'm over it and I moved on. I do feel strongly that if there are other victims out there they have a right to speak out. If they got burned worse then they should speak louder. Nobody wants to hear a whiner and a complainer you nor I.I guesse we can censor them or keep them from being victims in the first place. Which comunity do we want the Pontiac community to evolve into. There will always be whiners and complainers.Lets reduce that population by dealing with the fraud. If we eliminate the scammers rip off artist and flim flam guys. Then it will be a better world. not perfect.but better.

As for REK, There was a thread here a while back on quality of head work. I almost bough a set of heads but passed when i read that thread. a friend was also going to buy thier heads. I went to show him the thread on this site and it was gone. POOF. GONE! he bough thier heads. There were several issues with thier heads. No big deal but when he called them to address the issues that existed. that when he found out what he got vs what he paid. I almost bought a engine block. was going to pay cash at a car show for one but it was thier floor model. alot of hype. i did not buy it but i wanted to. Later the quality issues came out and I am thankfull. They dont go for much on EBAY so I woild have been stuck.

So who is the victim in these incidents? A person who missed a thread that was pulled and bought heads that had issues? A persom who almost all bought a block and even after that incident seriously considered buying heads untill the similar issue occured again. Almost but not quite. Could I be considered a victim even though luck alone prevented worse.

The point is that those of us who are scammed are victims but those of us who have the potential to become victims are also victims. Untill the scammers redeam them selves and make it right for the victims we all have the potential to be a future victim. and it is horrifying to think that some would allow a newby to test the waters to see if the scam artist have changed thier ways.

Scammers and and scum should not presume they have the right to continue to be a member of this community with out resolving the issues they created. Once they do that it will be much easier to determine who the whinner and complainers are.
We need to protect new people comming into this community and show some solidarity. they are the future and if we dont nurture them then all of this will die out.

Moderators police your own. If we are not permited to use profanity why should you.
If we have a specified location where we can post pictures of semi draped women why must we see a pair of **** every time we go somewhere on this forum.A 7 year ols girl looks to me for validation when I introduce her to this site and she see's **** over and over and over. How com this moderator inflicts his standards upon us while ignoring the same standards PY instills in him as a moderator. PY ARE YOU LISTENING?

And if I can get a red mark for my mistakes(wrongfull that it was) why do Moderators get to offend every veteran who fough in WWII and discrace this country and this site and get away with it. Why should they insult visitors to this site from other countries? How does that have anything to do with pontiacs other than you offended veterans on this site and that you did it on this site.

How is it that when a certain thread is located in the wrong area a moderator has the capability to relocate it but if it seems to offend the same cetain vendor it gets deleated. Or even if it starts off in the business entities section it still gets deleated or locked. More so when other and other issues dont get the same treatment. And because you deleated a valid thread some one else got scammed.

PY also has a advertising section, why must we constantly see the same one or two individuals constantly promoting thier products elsewhere? as if that is not enough when sombody contradicts them in the middle of a "sale" they get slammed or flammed. Why is that permitted. perhaps the moderators spend too much time protecting scammers (them selves include)
PY does not endure our wrath. it is a forum where people share opinions and ideas. Moderator must choose from among us those who espouse that high standard. they must live up to that standard befor they have a right to abitrarily and subjectivly inflict it upon us while flaunting the fact that they dont behave in a similar manner.

Im not talking about all members of this forum, I'm not talking about al moderators. I'm not talking about all vendors. But ther are a few of you you have diminished PY's efforts to make this a wonderful site. Your own behavior, the behavior you tolerate in others hurts Pys' efforts and puts this site at some level of risk. You dont have the right to do so and I am certain, absolutly certain that if PY knew the character of those imposing its rules the would have pause for consideration. It PY knew how the rules were imposed they would have pause for consideration. I wonder, just from a statistical perspective how the community here has changed in the last 6-8 months. That should give PY pause for consideration.

Moderators CLEAN HOUSE! CCASS I agree with every thing you have said and would like to point out that there are patterns of misuse of authority. I dont think there are conspiracy's going on. I think good moderators are overwelmed while one moderator demonstrates a continued pattern of abuse of the privilege.Frankly I think he ought to be doing time. Law suits are a cop out. REK stoops to that to avoid responsability. I must ask based again on the pattern of behaviors why REK threads are almost always deleated. maybe its not a conspiracy but perception is a very powerful visual aid.people are creatures of habit. Me, You...... them. When patterns develope it indicated human involvement. Nuff said, clean house.

Rag, Let me see if I got this right after speed reading your posts. REK = Kaufman Racing? And I take it you have a grievence with them. And lastly you feel that the mods remove negative posts about REK to help REK avoid getting bad publicity?

[dyingbreed]

What don't you understand Pontirag? The "victims" are not being "censored!" The only people being "censored" are the people who did not have direct dealings with the vendor in question. Furthermore, we have not, to my knowledge, ever removed any postings where other non-involved members have asked questions to help clarify the matter in question. The owner of this site has previously requested that only "first hand, factual" information be included in these types of topics. The owner of this site, Ccass, is also fully aware of our actions and knows what's going on around here.

I also see that you have been a member since January, 2004. If memory serves, that was about the time that the owner of this site requested VOLUNTEERS to moderate the forums. How come you didn't step up to the plate? Better yet, how come you don't start your own Pontiac forum and tailor it to your needs? Why do you continue to stay here when you are so disappointed with PY, its moderators and our policies or rules?

This is the best Pontiac site out there and we have thousands of active members. Furthermore, I don't see a noticable amount of disgruntled PY members calling for a revolution. On the contrary, we have new members joining here everyday and receive far more compliments than criticism.

db

[sleepy]

What's wrong with the bouncy B picture? I like the bouncy B picture. I missed the bouncy B picture.
From what I've seen the mods have done a pretty good job. If I understand the forum rules.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

""Talk about a 360. LOL""

Dam*, Kenny, another one of your "Bragging Sessions" went south again!

Put a good number down on the track with your CV-1 Heads and that F1R Blower and you won't need to be bragging about some West Coast Guy sending you a referral! That was what the original post was all about, right?

I kind of got lost after the "Mods were doing the WW-II Veterans wrong".

Tom V.

ps Thanks very much CCASS and the MODS for doing this thankless job and having the board in the first place!

[Overkillphil]

I think this thread has sunk to pure funny!

[dyingbreed]

Is this topic even race related anymore (or was it in the first place)? Anyone think of a good reason that it shouldn't be moved to the Lobby, or Club House for that matter?

db

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Quote:

""Talk about a 360. LOL""

Dam*, Kenny, another one of your "Bragging Sessions" went south again!

Put a good number down on the track with your CV-1 Heads and that F1R Blower and you won't need to be bragging about some West Coast Guy sending you a referral! That was what the original post was all about, right?

I kind of got lost after the "Mods were doing the WW-II Veterans wrong".

Tom V.

Tom I think you read it wrong. Bragging??????? Did you even read the original post?

I said that a person here in Central florida was looking for a Pontiac valley pan and called Summit. A Summit rep refered the Florida person to a west coast California person we all know. He got a price. He then asked locally if there was any Pontiac vendors and was referred to me.

[Kyflier]

My 2cents, I met BF once at a Pontiac event, was actually admiring the Black 65, he was nice when I met him, never had any person dealings with him.

Nice, honest folks here??? Thanks Rob B for installing my trans brake in the 400, I did little to help, but learned alot. Thanks to Cliff for advise when we were stuck with a question, and to Scott E @ Summit for heading me in the right direction with my ignition box, trans brake wiring.

There are alot of very well educated folks here, and we all appreciate the information and help when ask.

Thanks to all,

Kenny

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"Tom I think you read it wrong. Bragging??????? Did you even read the original post?

"I said that a person here in Central florida was looking for a Pontiac valley pan and called Summit. A Summit rep refered the Florida person to a west coast California person we all know. He got a price. He then asked locally if there was any Pontiac vendors and was referred to me."

What was the point of your post then, Ken?

I could say: The point was a local guy in Florida had NEVER HEARD OF YOU, he called Summit, the guy at Summit had NEVER HEARD OF YOU, so he recommended the west coast guy, and finally the west coast guy tells the local guy, "Why aren't you talking to the guy that lives in your own state?" Course that would mean that you aren't as famous as you would like to think that you are, LOL!

How am I doing Lil Jack?, you think we can fry that egg on his forehead about now?? LOL! They get testy in their old age.

(Don't get a hard on, everyone, Kenny and I are just messing with each other.)

Tom V.

[tikiklubracing]

Originally Posted by Rob B

But if you only run it once a year, what does that prove???

I think you made 1 race last year didn't you. or are you still in pieces

I made more, just 4 at Edgewater, but this year they have a foot brake only. Got tired of button racing. I guess thats because your Thorn hillbilly track closed.