#81  
Old 09-12-2011, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
Loffen, that depends on what state you're in.

That's one of the problems with this thread?
Seems it was done wrong?

In Illinois, the company would have to take quite a few measures first.
Notify the owner after a set amount of time.
File a court case against the owner.
If no one came forward or the owner loses, then the company could apply for a mechanics lien.

Then the title would be a state made one.

Lots of hoops to go through to get it.

Ok Thanks.

I guess you could do it here to, but I have never heard of it, usually the shop will hold the car and then go after the owner, normally everything will be settled before it goes to court wich could take a couple of years here.

What does happend here is normally a dispute over the cost of the repair and that will be seattled fast since we have pretty good consumer rights in Norway.

Interesting tread, just hope that it will be seattled soon and non of the involved parts will suffer to much.

  #82  
Old 09-24-2011, 04:16 PM
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Dan!

Any update on this!

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  #83  
Old 09-26-2011, 04:21 PM
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http://www.cars-on-line.com/55831.html. It looks like its for sale.

  #84  
Old 09-26-2011, 04:42 PM
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It does really say when that ad was posted. I've seen cars listed for a long time on that site. But, the ad does say to call Greg..

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  #85  
Old 09-26-2011, 11:43 PM
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i am really surprised that he would not put seat covers on it and put some white letter tires on it.

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Old 12-12-2011, 04:56 PM
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Look what popped up on the auction block.

I guess you can steal someone's IV convertible and get away with it.

Shop owner not Greg who bought the car.


http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...gn=FL0112_F239


Last edited by richard sargent; 12-12-2011 at 05:01 PM.
  #87  
Old 12-12-2011, 06:09 PM
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Poor cars gettin' flipped more than a lucky coin!

  #88  
Old 12-15-2011, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard sargent View Post
Look what popped up on the auction block.

I guess you can steal someone's IV convertible and get away with it.

Shop owner not Greg who bought the car.


http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...gn=FL0112_F239
I'd definately get my facts straight before calling someone a thief on the internet. Bottom line...guy finally got P-A-I-D for his work! Deadbeat lost his car and the title was taken out of his name eight months prior to Greg buying the car. Some nerve you have. If car was "stolen" do you truly believe Greg could have gotten an Indiana title? Police come and inspect the car. BTW...car now looks as it should have all along. New top, interior and paint...body panels now line up. Sounds like gettin' "flipped" isn't the worst thing that can happen to a rare car! JMHO. Ron...[sinceGreg cannot be here to defend himself. I'm thinkin if he was...he's just get banned again for his response to your accusation.]

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  #89  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:21 PM
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So you have my million dollar diamond ring, I owe you 20k, you sell the ring 650k and keep that the 630k that does not belong to you.

What would you call this????????????

Bank repo cars all the time and you get your car repoed for all little as missing one payment.

So lets say you have the new 638 Hp vette you put down 100k have a balance owed of 30k. You have a emergency in the hospital miss your first payment. Vette gets repoed bank sells this vette wholesale for 100k.

They keep every dime, is that not stealing?

This was never Greg's problem, just like guy who would buy a new ZRI for 35k below book that was repoed.

He was right time right place with dough and bought the car you say with a title, he was willing to take a chance that was his business.

Maybe you should get you facts straight, how can you be so sure this guy who owned the IV was a dead beat?

I know he is a member why don't you ask him about his Deadbeat Status? Here's the responce I got.

Hello,
Thank you for your offer to assist and well wishes.
I and several lawyers have been working this from several angles. Unfortunately I must wait for an active criminal investigation to conclude, before I know which direction(s) to pursue. I have been most impressed with the calls, emails, etc. offering all types of assistance. Always said I liked Pontiac people... : )
Thanks again


This is what I know, a IV vert was sold way way below market value to settle a debt of 8k, the owner was deliquent, the shop owner kept all the proceeds, not just what the bill was.

Please explain was this is legal, moral and is for betterment of our hobby?

I own a car lot, I sell 1200 cars a year, I know the law, I deal with it everyday, I have inhouse customers who's credit is so bad even mouse houses won't take them, but they still need a car to get to work, these people owe me north of 100k.

Call them what you like, they miss payments quite regularly, I am not entitled to STEAL and keep the full value of the car if it exceeds what they owe, nor is it legal.

Get your facts straight, original owner did not pay his bills, yes, but he was never informed or warned about the title being taken out of his name. The police simply came and inspected a mechanic's lien not knowing the full facts. The original owner had no knowlege of what was going down, why don't you ask this so call DEADBEAT?

When I repo a car by law, I have to send them a registered letter with balance owed, repo fees, with a time limit of 21 days to pay.

After that I will sell car, if the car brings more than the balance the money is refunded period.

If you want to sell their car to wife's cousin for 50.00 or charge 100 bucks a day for storage or any other fly by night BS it is wrong and yes illegal

You own quote "The great obstacle to discovery is not ignorance...but the illusion of knowledge." Daniel J. Boorstein


Last edited by richard sargent; 12-17-2011 at 09:23 PM.
  #90  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:51 PM
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Ron,

As a man who has had his fair share of misfortune in his life, you sure do have a cold ****ing heart! Dan's no deadbeat but WAS taken advantage of.

Chris

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  #91  
Old 12-17-2011, 09:38 PM
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Sounds like gettin' "flipped" isn't the worst thing that can happen to a rare car! JMHO. Ron...[sinceGreg cannot be here to defend himself. I'm thinkin if he was...he's just get banned again for his response to your accusation.]

Never accused Greg of doing anything illegal.

Speaking of flipping, I am flipping 1200 flipping cars a year LOL! before this econmy went south I was flipping over 2000 a year.

If Greg makes a million more power to him, this America and free enterprise.

Ever car he has restored and fellow members have restored and sold has done northing but improve our hobby.

Ever time a restored rare Pontiac is sold it makes our cars worth just a little more, and digs up more cars, and brings new blood into our hobby.


Last edited by richard sargent; 12-17-2011 at 09:46 PM.
  #92  
Old 12-18-2011, 12:15 PM
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Cool Sorry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boss View Post
Ron,

As a man who has had his fair share of misfortune in his life, you sure do have a cold ****ing heart! Dan's no deadbeat but WAS taken advantage of.

Chris
I do not know the man...but I DO feel his pain. However...I still question his judgement and serious lack of foresight. I am looking at both sides of the coin,as well. Legal dollar figures are for a court to decide...it seems. But...my son owns his own small business and I know just how frustrating it is when folks won't pay. Exactly why I sold my rotissery and refuse to do cars for others. We got burnt on the "Judge" Kevin started for Milt...as did the boys in Indiana that finished it...yet nobody felt sorry for any of us. Again...I'm no attorney...but I DO know the frustration of getting stiffed. If Dan was seriously in trouble...he could have arranged the sale of the car himself with payment to the shop contingent to the sale, right? Just curious...he couldn't come up with $8,500...yet he can afford several lawyers? Comparing the deal to screwing someone's ex-wife I don't get either. Greg is a businessman and Dan is a deadbeat by definition...not because I said so...but by his actions. This happened over a two year period...not in the dark of the night. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is...one man has bad judgement in his finances...another got sick of having his money tied up...and yet another saw a good deal and jumped on it. If Dan is so dear to your hearts here...why not pay his bill and tie up YOUR money until he decided to pay you? Simple as that...in my book. I am compassionate...but he paid $40k for the car and turned around and asked $140 without touching it...right, Dan? At least Greg had the car straightened out...so who's the crook?

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  #93  
Old 12-18-2011, 12:33 PM
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Thumbs up Bingo!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard sargent View Post
Sounds like gettin' "flipped" isn't the worst thing that can happen to a rare car! JMHO. Ron...[sinceGreg cannot be here to defend himself. I'm thinkin if he was...he's just get banned again for his response to your accusation.]

Never accused Greg of doing anything illegal.

Speaking of flipping, I am flipping 1200 flipping cars a year LOL! before this econmy went south I was flipping over 2000 a year.

If Greg makes a million more power to him, this America and free enterprise.

Ever car he has restored and fellow members have restored and sold has done northing but improve our hobby.

Ever time a restored rare Pontiac is sold it makes our cars worth just a little more, and digs up more cars, and brings new blood into our hobby.
Greg has dug up more rare cars and breathed new life into them than anyone else here that I know of. I've bought and sold cars and have NEVER had a hint of anything underhanded in my dealings with him. I disagree with the term "flipper" that folks use to describe him...as I sit here and try to think of a car he has bought and simply jacked the price to make money without first "doing up" the car and making it presentable. He actually had the opportunity to buy this car before Dan did...when it was still in Canada and for $40k. How much time or money did Dan actually put into the car to make it worth the $140k that he was asking for awhile back? Exactly! Anyway...I wish Dan the best of luck if he was,in fact, "taken advantage of"...but I'm still thinking he has "some 'splainin' to do"! I'll bet the courts would take the initial purchase price and deduct the parts,labor,storage and other fees. That seems more fair to me than starting with what he THOUGHT the car was worth...unless he KNOWINGLY paid much less than he knew the car was worth to begin with. Gee...this gets confusing! JMHO. Ron

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  #94  
Old 12-18-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boss View Post
Ron,

As a man who has had his fair share of misfortune in his life, you sure do have a cold ****ing heart! Dan's no deadbeat but WAS taken advantage of.

Chris
when I gave you an approximate quote on doing your RA II car to the level of our RA IV...you stated that "I could do TWO cars for that price!" How'd THAT work out for you? So...pardon me if I do not put a lot of stock into your opinions. Nothing personal...just don't believe you have taken all the facts into account...again. How is someone that commissions work and refuses to pay NOT a deadbeat? Reasons notwithstanding...that is the definition of a deadbeat. Regardless of the adjective used...the shop owner had to cover the costs out of HIS pocket. I've seen this time and again. Owner is gung ho at first. Time to pay up and ...not so much. Other "priorities" put the person owed on the "back burner" and of little or no consideration to the owner. In fact...in most every case...our customers got increasingly reluctant to "write a check" near the completion of the project. If I EVER do another vehicle for ANYONE...money will go into escrow before the first wrench is turned...just to avoid such a situation. That's what I took away from this business. Sad but true. Merry Christmas. Ron [PS...still only got @ half the money owed to Kevin for doing Milt's frame...and that was ONLY because Walt got wind of it.]

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  #95  
Old 12-18-2011, 05:31 PM
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I don't see any problem with the shop trying to get his money back.
The thing is, there is a right way (legal) and a wrong way of doing it.



To me selling a vehicle that is not yours is stealing.



There are legal ways of getting the title, if it was by mechanics lien.

I think the parties went about it the wrong way.

I don't know either party, either.



Ron, your situation probably should have been handled differently also, it sounds like?

Try mechanic's lien or small claims court?


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  #96  
Old 12-18-2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Landis View Post
when I gave you an approximate quote on doing your RA II car to the level of our RA IV...you stated that "I could do TWO cars for that price!" How'd THAT work out for you? So...pardon me if I do not put a lot of stock into your opinions. Nothing personal...just don't believe you have taken all the facts into account...again. How is someone that commissions work and refuses to pay NOT a deadbeat? Reasons notwithstanding...that is the definition of a deadbeat. Regardless of the adjective used...the shop owner had to cover the costs out of HIS pocket. I've seen this time and again. Owner is gung ho at first. Time to pay up and ...not so much. Other "priorities" put the person owed on the "back burner" and of little or no consideration to the owner. In fact...in most every case...our customers got increasingly reluctant to "write a check" near the completion of the project. If I EVER do another vehicle for ANYONE...money will go into escrow before the first wrench is turned...just to avoid such a situation. That's what I took away from this business. Sad but true. Merry Christmas. Ron [PS...still only got @ half the money owed to Kevin for doing Milt's frame...and that was ONLY because Walt got wind of it.]
How did that work out? I went out and bought a 72 455HO/4spd LeMans Sport Convertible and left the other $30,000 in the bank - that's how that worked out! Who do you think landed better with that deal?

You think you know the facts here Ron and you have no ****ing clue. I have no problem paying a man what he is due and neither does Dan. The problem here is the shop owner fell on hard times and set in motion a plan to get himself out. This included trying to dupe a guy who owns multiple RA IV & HO cars into bringing ANOTHER car over to his shop to do some work on it - yes this wasn't the first time the worked together. He then found "problems" with the car & parts that were going to increase the costs significantly. While this was going on, he transferred his house out of his name - why do people do that I wonder?

He set up a ruse to set a lien, failed to notify properly, secured a title through a company that has been indited on federal charges for other crimes and sold it without a court order. Those are the facts!

Would I have paid the bill and let Dan take his time to pay me back - you bet! I've known Dan for 25 years now and would trust him with my life - a lot more than I could say about others here! I have no real problem with Greg buying the car - he took advantage of an opportunity - but I can say this - karma is a nasty bitch and will come back & slit your throat if you treat her badly! Keep that in mind Ron.

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  #97  
Old 12-18-2011, 06:42 PM
richard sargent richard sargent is offline
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Being the business of selling used cars I have been burned countless times............ this economy tuff and it happens about twice as often as it used to. I will be 57 in a few days I am still working 7 days a week.

But if I blame the economy or Non pays I become bitter and angry.

That leaves me powerless and a feeling of helpless.

In my world that's not going to happen, I have my family, my Pontiac's, my business, and I am able to pay bills, so much to be thankful for........, I let it go and work harder, it nevers gives me an excuse to steal someone's else money or property.


It is estimated that 30,000,000 Americans have "poor" credit scores, making them the victim of exorbitant interest rates, denials for financing, desperate for a way to buy the things they need, and trapped in a bad credit cycle that leaves them feeling like they have only two choices--accept high interest rates and inequitable deals or simply go without.

According to a national survey by Focus Credit, Tampa, Fla., many people do not have the tools to live well in their current financial situation, starting with the most basic information. In fact, 76% of those surveyed report not knowing their credit score within a 200-point range.

The survey found that 50% of respondents had been denied financing for a car; 39%, a credit card; 23%, a bank loan; and 12%, a mortgage.


Last edited by richard sargent; 12-18-2011 at 07:32 PM.
  #98  
Old 12-18-2011, 07:14 PM
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I'll add this Ron - you & Greg have been delivered a story convincing enough that you will go out publicly and repeat/defend it. This same guy had a story for Dan as well, and has for the county prosecutor since - none of which have matched.

The whole deal stinks and the car stinks as well. I understand the car has been offered to several members here for not much more than it was purchased for, and to the man, none of them have touched it - what does that say?

I like you Ron. I love your work, feel your pain of misfortune, and even share your politics (minority in this place) but this isn't about you & I. I won't bother with this any more - I've probably said too much already.

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  #99  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boss View Post
I'll add this Ron - you & Greg have been delivered a story convincing enough that you will go out publicly and repeat/defend it. This same guy had a story for Dan as well, and has for the county prosecutor since - none of which have matched.

The whole deal stinks and the car stinks as well. I understand the car has been offered to several members here for not much more than it was purchased for, and to the man, none of them have touched it - what does that say?

I like you Ron. I love your work, feel your pain of misfortune, and even share your politics (minority in this place) but this isn't about you & I. I won't bother with this any more - I've probably said too much already.
nothin' personal...and like you said, I only know what I was told. I didn't realize how the laws read in that state...just know Greg now has clean title. Hope Dan gets restitution if he deserves it...just that my son owns a business and deadbeats are his worst enemy. Again...never met Dan but I know how it works around here. Don't pay your bills... lose your stuff. Gotta be some recourse...all I'm sayin'. About your car...glad you found a deal but I was really looking forward to seeing what a "half-priced" resto would have gotten you...that's all. Our price was under what most places would charge. I quit a local shop here that took in a $50k '68 GTO ragtop...took $25K for the job and wanted another $27K when the guy came for the car. No new interior...nothing "over the top". One reason I left...did NOT want my name attatched to this shop...even remotely! The triple black Judge ragtop Greg just sold...same deal. Shop took the owner for $17k AND sold off his good parts! Greg bought the carcass. I believe we are adults and can discuss without malice. Like you said...some here cannot. Personally...I don't think Greg "screwed someone's ex-wife"...as it was so eloquently put. In his shoes...I'd have bought the car myself. In reality...I'm happy with what I have. Happy New Year and take care. Sorry if anyone was offended by my "opinion"...but it was just that. Take care. Ron

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  #100  
Old 12-28-2011, 04:51 PM
richard sargent richard sargent is offline
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None of my posts are directed at Greg! Shop owner only, Greg is taking a chance with this car as far as legal problems are concerned.

He is a big boy, done the math and pulled the trigger, I do it in business all time, if it backfires so be it.

Being in Greg's shoes with money in hand I just might have bought the car too.

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