[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by Lloyd-TX

You, sir, are one SICK individual!

Lloyd, You have NO idea my friend!

Originally Posted by richard sargent

Big problem he ended the auction early! To a judge this looks like collusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at least on the shop owners part not the new buyer.

I guess I do not really see a difference of what avenue the car was sold, provided the seller had acquired a clear title. Either listing it in Hemmings, craigslist, an ebay auction ended early or not. Why would any one venue be more legal than another? Unless of course there were specific instructions on how the seller was to proceed with the sale.

[richard sargent]

Don't know the details, but everytime I sell a car with a balance owed to me, I get the title as Rich's Car Corner is the legal owner just like a bank.

Does not relieve me of my legal respondsibiltys, these laws are set up to protect the consumer so a tow yard, a car lot, a bank, or a repair shop can't take a million dollar article and sell for pennies and cheat the consumer.

What about a bank? Guys buys a 2011 supercharged Vette, puts 50k down, misses 3 payments, car has 2k miles, garaged from day one, bank repo's car, they don't get to keep all of his 50k.

They get what it will bring at a auction that is not ended early, they get repo costs, late fees, storage and its not three years of storage either.

[richard sargent]

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about a ''mechanics lein'' in Virginia.

The English common law recognized mechanic's liens respecting only personal property. The lien was created by operation of law by the fact of the artisan working on the personal property item or attaching additional material to it. However, to maintain the lien, the artisan had to retain possession of the article until he or she was paid. If the property were returned to the owner before that time, the lien was lost. The lien was enforced by a "self-help" sale of the property and applying the sale proceeds to payment of the amount owed for the workmanship. The sales were non-judicial, i.e., they were held in the same way as a sale of property pawned for a debt.

Some 34 states now appear to have statutes providing for mechanic's liens on personal property.[5] These statutes tend to modify the common law rules. For example, in Virginia, a mechanic's lien can only be enforced up to the amount of $625, and if the property is valued at over $5,000, it must be sold at a sheriff's auction ordered by the court of appropriate jurisdiction.

Comment................Titles can be got on old cars very easily, in fact some states don't have them for a old car, just a bill of sale. I bought a 1969 Judge out of Canada last year hauled it over the border with no title only thing that was required was a bill of sale and a insurance registration.

[richard sargent]

here's the latest update from Viriginia's web site.


http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/c...hicles/msl.asp

now up to 800.00 according to DMV

On a vehicle above 15,001. must petition circuit court to order the sale.

$15,001 or More
The mechanic or storage lienholder must: • Request DMV to search title records available for the vehicle owner and lienholder if any; and • Petition the Circuit Court, in the city or county where the vehicle is located, to order the sale of the vehicle. The purchaser must present to DMV all of the following: • The results of DMV's record search and a completed Mechanic's or Storage Lien Application (VSA 41, pages 1 & 3); • Completed Application for Certificate of Title and Registration (VSA 17A), with applicable fees or a completed Application for Non-Repairable Certificate (VSA 57); and • An affidavit (VSA 41, page 3) from the sheriff stating that the vehicle was sold in compliance with the court's order.
For the purposes of a mechanic's or storage lien, the following definitions apply: Loan Value -- the vehicle value as determined by the NADA OFFICIAL USED CAR GUIDE. Notice of Intent to Sell Virginia record found --The mechanic or lienholder must arrange for the vehicle to be sold at a public auction, and at least 10 days prior to the public auction: • notify the owner and lienholder, if any, by certified mail return receipt, of the date,time and place of the auction, and • advertise the date, time, place and terms of the auction in at least one public place (see definition below). Note: If the MSL Transcript indicates that the vehicle owner is on active military duty or service, you must obtain a court order granting the enforcement of the lien as required under the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, 50 U.S.C. App §535. DMV will begin collecting this information, effective July 1, 2008, on all title and registration applications; therefore the active military duty status will not be available for all customers. As a result, the MSL applicant will be responsible for obtaining the active military duty status from other sources. Notice of Intent to Sell No Virginia or non-Virginia record found or the owner's address is unknown -- The mechanic or storage lienholder must arrange for the vehicle to be sold at public auction, and at least 10 days prior to the public auction. Advertise the date, time, place and terms of the auction in three different public places (see definition below). Public Place -- premises owned by the Commonwealth of Virginia or a political subdivision thereof, or an agency of either which is open to the public and permits such postings.


Again don't know how this went down, but as I had thought, their is laws to protect the consumer.

Sometimes as a small business owner these kind of laws cost me money, but I know what I can do and what I can't. Law suits, DMV pulling my dealers license, lawyers all are more money, more headaches in the long run!

[JLHarper]

This one is going to be interesting.

After reading RS post.......I hope buyer and seller didnt have any ebay messages talking about the REAL value of the car.

[Region Warrior]

Several years ago a buddy bought a 62 Nova w/o a title.
Sent paper work to Mo., or another near by State. Had a title 2-3 weeks later.
Original seller didnt have to do a thing.

[The Boss]

All hell breaks loose when you go away for a week!

[bulletpruf]

Interesting thread. Chatted with Dan about this car and a few others a year or so ago. Would love to have it in my garage.

As stated below, if Greg ended up with it, he should be fine. Think he's in better shape if he's out of state and titles it immediately out of state.

Shop owner is another story. There's a legal concept that basically says that when you are in possession of someone else's property, you have to take reasonable care of that property or you are liable for damages. That's the same concept here - - if you are owed money for working on a vehicle worth $75k and you sell it for $25k, get ready for the lawsuit, because it's coming. And when you file a lawsuit, you generally file against all possibly liable parties, so new owner may end up as a defendant, too. Again, I don't see what Greg would have done wrong, but he could still get tangled up in this.

Scott

[70ra455]

IF the buyer was aware of the legal situation he/she will also be involved in this. When a person buys property that was not allowed to be sold that person is 100% responsible to give that property back ... and here's the kicker ... he/she has to go to the entity they purchased it from for legal redress. In other words the court will protect 2 parties in this order:

1) the shops unpaid balance
2) the owner of the vehicle before it was sold (Dan)

They will tell the current owner to 1) return the car and 2) go to the person they bought it from to get their redress.

That's my take. All of this will come down to Dan and how much time, money, and effort he puts into this.

I would love to hear Dan chime in as to why the bill was unpaid to such an extent that the shop had to do this. Also, Greg (if he's the buyer) will not be happy that RS gave that info up. Although it wouldn't have mattered since the seller would have had to give that info up anyway.

[richard sargent]

The information I posted was the same info (Dan) would get with a simple call to the attorney general's office.

From what it appears they may have broke the law and you don't need an attorney to report this or any other crime.

Too much money involved, if would get AG attention ASAP.

I posted this primarly for info for future buyers to know what you could be getting into,
when you buy a car and ownership is in doubt.

When this post started no one appeared to know the gravity of a situtation like this or least made a much of comment.



Again I don't think he or she did anything wrong but a high risk proposition at best. All clear and a incredible baragain or can't sell it, ordered to give back, shop refuses to pay back 25k and that's just the start of this headache!

Plus this is a high profile car only one like left in the world would be my guess in this color combo and options.

[richard sargent]

Originally Posted by carcrazie

HELLO, DAN MCKINNON HERE ALIVE AND KICKING, AND YES THIS IS MY CAR (THAT IS PRESENT TENSE), AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR GROUP IS NOT AUTHORIZED TO SELL IT.
I HIRED NICK AT ARG TO INSTALL THE MOTOR FOR ME AND HE HAS NOT RETURNED MY CALLS AND HAS AVOIDED ME. I HAVE FILED AN INCIDENT REPORT WITH EBAY - THEY ARE AWARE OF THE SITUATION. IF ANY ONE HAS A WAY TO CONTACT GREG, IF IN FACT HE IS THE BIDDER FROM INDIANA (SHOWN ON EBAY AS S***T) THEN PLEASE INFORM HIM THAT HE WILL BE BUYING A STOLEN CAR. THANK YOU ALL - DAN

This was Dan's reply before I posted information!

[richard sargent]

I don't know if this the same business but here is what I got when I google to the address on Ebay

http://www.automotiverepairgroup.com/

[70ra455]

Actually Rich I owe you an apology ... I meant to type RL who "confirmed" that Greg purchased the car (in post #36) ... not RS. That's what I get for staying up too late!

Please accept my apology.

[Loffen]

As a forigner, just to get this straight, if you place your car at a workshop to so some major repairs the shop can take a lian on the title to make sure they get their money, and if so at what time will they do so ?

[johnta1]

Loffen, that depends on what state you're in.

That's one of the problems with this thread?
Seems it was done wrong?

In Illinois, the company would have to take quite a few measures first.
Notify the owner after a set amount of time.
File a court case against the owner.
If no one came forward or the owner loses, then the company could apply for a mechanics lien.

Then the title would be a state made one.

Lots of hoops to go through to get it.

[muscle_collector]

that is the way i understand it to be here in oklahoma also. cant just take someone vehicle and sell it. i would like to know what led to the action of them doing it. are they just crooks, dispute over a bill, etc.... chime in dan.

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

that is the way i understand it to be here in oklahoma also. cant just take someone vehicle and sell it. i would like to know what led to the action of them doing it. are they just crooks, dispute over a bill, etc.... chime in dan.

Yep, I agree.

Dan, it's time to "come clean", my friend.

[The Boss]

This case won't be decided on this board guys so don't expect Dan to be coming back here until it's been resolved.

[Region Warrior]

Anyone call Greg yet?

[richard sargent]

Originally Posted by The Boss

This case won't be decided on this board guys so don't expect Dan to be coming back here until it's been resolved.

Good point, the rest speculation, enough information has been posted.