[Inagaddadavida_loca]

Originally Posted by gtoric

Taking these suppositions in hand, I would say that the 1970 GT-37 survival rate would be between 75 and 140 examples. The 1971 version would level out at betrween 290 and 580 units. Add to this guestimate,how many of these survivors are still in a driveable state? I'd say perhaps somewhere in the 10 to 20% range. Take these assumptions for what they're worth, very basic guesses. Just my 2 cents worth.

What the article (which was from 1979, way before GTOs were considered collectible in the hobby) misses is that the rate of attrition tends to diminish at some point because people are finding and restoring these cars.

[black death]

I Have one

[chicagoland]

The T-37 name replaced Tempest as the base mid size Pontiac. The GT-37 was considered a 'budget' or 'no-frills' muscle car in tis day.

The Lemans Sport was a mid level trim and not a true 'muscle car' package as the GTO, etc.

[Jack Peters]

Actually in '70 the Tempest became the Tempest, T-37 and was so identified by the logo on the fender. In '71 it was a LeMans T-37 but only identified by Pontiac and T-37 on the fenders. Just a point of clarification. The GT was an option on the 2 dr ht or post in '70 and on the 2 dr ht in '71. A V-8 had to be ordered first then the GT option.

The LeMans was a step up from the Tempest T-37/T-37 and the LeMans Sport was the top of the line in the LeMans series then the GTO was the top of the A bodies.

[Pontiacmuscle]

My '71 GT-37 is still in the family for now...

[chicagoland]

Yes, 70 was Tempest T-37, but t-37 name was gradually phased in. The Custom S in 1969 was a one year only trim level between Tempest and LeMans. Then for '70 the C-S was replaced by plain LeMans, and then LeMans Sport was new.

The 1972 Luxury LeMans pushed LM Sport down the ''Totem Pole'' to middle, with LeMans at base. [73-77 A bodies are a whole different story.]

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by PB

I saw one for sale in Des Moines area a few years back....shoulda picked that one up.

Pat, I pulled the PHS on that one and gave it to Tim.

[Inagaddadavida_loca]

Originally Posted by chicagoland

The Custom S in 1969 was a one year only trim level between Tempest and LeMans. Then for '70 the C-S was replaced by plain LeMans, and then LeMans Sport was new.

I kinda agree and disagree with the above.

While it could be said the Custom S was a one year-only trim level, it really was just an evolution of the previous Tempest Custom (notice anything in common?). I kinda consider them one and the same.

So for 1969, we have:
Tempest
Custom S
LeMans
GTO

For 1970, we have:
Tempest (and T-37)
LeMans
LeMans Sport
GTO

. . . so, yes, it would seem the LeMans moved down a notch in 1970.

[chicagoland]

From Wikipedia, which sources from Pontac Fact website:

Custom S "...this one-year only nameplate replaced the previous model years' [1964-68]Tempest Custom name in the Pontiac line-up".

"Originally planned for 1969 was a lower-priced junior musclecar "Pontiac ET" to be based on the Custom S series, and a competitor to the inexpensive and fast-selling Plymouth Road Runner, which started the econo-musclecar trend in 1968 due to a starting price of under $3,000..."

"The Custom S nameplate was dropped after the 1969 model year. For 1970, that series was replaced by a new base LeMans line with the same bodystyles, while the previous up-level LeMans became the LeMans Sport."

"The entry level Tempest continued for one more year with a new T-37 hardtop coupe added at mid-year, that included a GT-37 option package as lower-priced junior musclecar available with 350 and 400 V8s somewhat similar to the abortive '69 ET series.

"The T-37 nameplate replaced Tempest entirely for the entry-level Pontiac intermediate series in 1971. After this year, the T-37 would be dropped and for 1972 all Pontiac intermediates took the LeMans nameplate except the GTO."

So, the GT-37 was a 'junior muscle car' to get buyers who couldn't afford a GTO. Insurance rates were rising too. Back then, a $500 price difference was a 'deal breaker'.

[Judge273]

So, the GT-37 was a 'junior muscle car' to get buyers who couldn't afford a GTO. Insurance rates were rising too. Back then, a $500 price difference was a 'deal breaker'.[/QUOTE]

I personally think you need to have at least a 400 in a GT-37 to start talking "junior muscle car."

Then, in 71 add the 455 HO to a GT-37, and you drop the junior and add "lightweight factory muscle car". JMHO

[Inagaddadavida_loca]

I don't consider the GT-37 a Junior Supercar. It's clearly a competitor to the Road Runner, combined with the soon-to-be commonplace de-contented performance car (like the 1971-beyond Chevelle SS with a 350 and the 1972-beyond 4-4-2 with a 350. Ditto the 1973-beyond Road Runner with a 318, etc.

[Jack Peters]

I have an article where the 350 HO beat a 383 RR. It was Bobcated and price was still less than RR. Both 4 speeds. I'll have to find it and post it. Name of article was "Can the tiny Tiger's growl beat the Road Runners beep beep?. The answer was yes. So 350 HO was not a Junior Musclecar unless you put the RR in the same catagory.

[Inagaddadavida_loca]

Hmmm . . . let's see:

350HO that requires a dealer mod package vs. a factory Road Runner?

I have the article. The 350HO is a Junior Supercar too, but don't forget we were talking about the GT-37, whose 350 was a completely different animal. The 350 GT-37 was no different than the later low-performance quasi-muscle I mentioned.

[Jack Peters]

It was like the 'heavy chevy' and others like it. Wannabe, look allikes, etc. All flash and no dash. Still like the plane Janes. All go and no show. Be careful of that T-37 with no cid callouts that sounds like a V-8. ;-) Little old lady from Pasadena better watch out. Just never know what is under the hood.

Oh yeah, 350 with mods cost less than the RR. I try to scan and post some time.

[tripower]

I'd never consider a 71 T-37, GT-37 or Lemans a junior muscle car, especially if one of those had a 455HO in it sitting next to a 400ci GTO.

[mike nixon]

I personally think you need to have at least a 400 in a GT-37 to start talking "junior muscle car."

Then, in 71 add the 455 HO to a GT-37, and you drop the junior and add "lightweight factory muscle car". JMHO[/QUOTE]


Have you everdriven a GT-37 with a well tuned 350 and the 3spd? THese cars are qucik, not as quick as a 455ho but still enough to handle a lot of comparable cars. The only other contender with a 350 was the Olds.


Mike

[Inagaddadavida_loca]

A 2bbl. GT-37 vs. a 350 Olds? The latter put out 310 hp and was capable of high-14s.

I'd be surprised if the GT-37 was any faster than the 16s.

Then if there's no other contenders, what about the Buick GS 350?

[mike nixon]

None of the Buick's I've driven run like the Olds / Pontiacs did.


Note I said a well tuned 350, I didn't say totally stock.

Mike

[muscle_collector]

i have some literature somewhere (somewhere, when i moved things got packed away and i have not been so fortunate to be able to grab items off the shelf) that states the 70 gt-37 with the 400 engine was the quickest pontiac made that year. anyone else seen this info??

[mike nixon]

I remember reading that but I don't know where.

MIke