[gto4door]

Here is PHS for this car.

[dr-doug]

Not this Doug. I only have one EBAY name dds-doug. I was at a party at a specialty butcher shop. Good thing that auction didn't end at 11:00, I wasn't thinking too straight at that time....
If it was in my collection today, there would be some factory options added to that one. Both functional ones and esthetic ones.
A woman(God bless her)bought that car new, can you tell.....DW

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by PB

That AC bracket is DEFINITELY an HO bracket, otherwise that preheater tube would be crushed in there to fit. You would notice that. Gotta be an HO. Also notice where the oil dipstick mounts, Only HO motors mount them to the intake bracket. Non HO are mounted to the forward bracket. Cool car.

Pat,

Do you have a picture of the correct bracket bare? I need to check through a few for my 72.

Thanks

[tripower]

Originally Posted by gto4door

Here is PHS for this car.

It's funny, Jim Mattson at PHS probably had a run on this VIN during the auction. Probably started making copies before hand.

Looks like the buyer was from Maryland...now who do we know from their?

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Pat,

Do you have a picture of the correct bracket bare? I need to check through a few for my 72.

Thanks

Chris - you have mail, courtesy of Pat Brown.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Lloyd-TX

Chris - you have mail, courtesy of Pat Brown.

You guys are the best, thanks to you both!

[rustedgoat]

Lots of people viewing this thread

So was this a really good buy at 19K? If it was a few hours closer to me I would have drove out and checked it out in person with cash and trailer. Still wondering if the seller had any idea on the true value of the car. Anyone notice what the reserve was?

[Judge273]

I felt that anything under 20K was a steal.

My thoughts was the matching dayone 455 HO drivetrain was worth 15K with all the pieces and parts. Personally, I wouldn't restore it except for a good steam clean. If the body was solid with dayone sheetmetal, and it looked to be that way. No real reason to believe the original owner who was a lady raced it or beat on it in any way. The paint was in decent shape although a repaint, and the interior could be brought back to original in easy fashion.

Someone got a nice solid no rust barn-find survivor from the original owner's family with a 455 HO 4 speed 1 of 11 in that drivetrain that never left the engine compartment for 19K.

[PB]

I agree with you Mike, that was a steal at 19K. These 71 & 72 lemans' optioned with the 455 HO engines are more rare than Judges; regardless if it's a convertible, hardtop or coupe. Especially this one in that kind of original shape. These are the ONLY years those engines were even an option without getting a GTO. I was fortunate to run into one last weekend at Norwalk. You just don't see these cars out there. That truly was a diamond in the rough.

[Lloyd-TX]

Some of y'all know that I was negotiating to buy the car outside of e-bay. No such luck - Susie (the seller's daughter) would not reveal the reserve nor listen to any offers. Can't say that I blame her.

Kinda interesting story behind the car.

Susie's aunt special ordered the car and bought it new from Kittle Pontiac Co. in Memphis, TN. A few years later she tired of the car and sold it. Later, regretting that decision, she bought the car back and had it "restored". A few years later she passed away and Susie's father inherited it. Several more years passed, with the car stored in a barn for approximately 20 years. A couple of years ago Susie's father passed away, and ownership passed to Susie's mother, who decided to sell the car. Since Bill and Susie aren't e-bay members, they asked a friend to post the ad. During one of our conversations, Susie did reveal that her mother had already turned down $15K for the car.

About the "Oldsmobile Rocket 455" engine deal . . . gto4door and I came up with a theory - since the '71 tune-up label actually reads "455 H.O.", that possibly someone involved did a quick internet search and came up with a 455 Hurst Olds? Who knows.

gto4door and I figured that once Paul had them verify the block code and other numbers, that the "jig was up", and the price would end up quite a bit higher than I was prepared to bid. So . . . I never actually placed a bid on the car. I was guessing that the reserve was in the low $20's.

I had planned to stay up last night (I'm normally NO night owl) and be prepared to make a last second bid on the car (if the mood struck me at the time), but my daughter was having trouble falling asleep. I sat down ih a recliner in her room to try and help her fall asleep, and darned if I didn't fall asleep as well.

Oh well . . . I'm more of a hardtop kinda guy anyway, LOL!

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Lloyd-TX

I had planned to stay up last night (I'm normally NO night owl) and be prepared to make a last second bid on the car (if the mood struck me at the time), but my daughter was having trouble falling asleep. I sat down ih a recliner in her room to try and help her fall asleep, and darned if I didn't fall asleep as well.

Nothing wrong with that Lloyd, you've got to take those moments when they come!

I'd agree with the driveline value, 15K for an un-altered HO/M22/12 Bolt driveline is right on!

[Forrest]

God , I was tempted! I'll just have to do the next car I own which is a '71 #'s matching h/o 4 speed hardtop. Not a convert. but the next best thing! Sorry Lloyd you didn't get it. There's always something else out there!

[Uncle Judge]

I was unable to control myself and was the second high bidder. I thought that I owned it until there was only 3 seconds left in the auction. That $100.00 underbid saved me lots of $$ in storage fees! That is one very unique time capsule for sure. I think the fact that they had no clue what it was made it really interesting!

[68bird400HO]

I had an itchy trigger finger too but couldn't do it. I couldn't believe that with 16 seconds left it was still sitting at just over 12k. I just don't have the space or funds right now being elbow deep in the TA resto. However, if a ragtop only brought 19k, I do wonder what a similar hardtop could be bought for now.

[PB]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

I had an itchy trigger finger too but couldn't do it. I couldn't believe that with 16 seconds left it was still sitting at just over 12k. I just don't have the space or funds right now being elbow deep in the TA resto. However, if a ragtop only brought 19k, I do wonder what a similar hardtop could be bought for now.

I think there were a lot more factors than it just being a ragtop bringing only 19K.

1. Advertising...it wasn't exposed as it could have been, seeing how the owners did not know the rarity or that it was even a 455 HO.

2. Color. Had that been a more "popular" color, could have seen a significant price increase.

3. Options. It was a lower option car, but it had the unique options.

4. Non endura may have had some impact on desirablilty.

Someone got a really good deal for this car because of some of the items listed above.

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by PB

I think there were a lot more factors than it just being a ragtop bringing only 19K.

1. Advertising...it wasn't exposed as it could have been, seeing how the owners did not know the rarity or that it was even a 455 HO.

2. Color. Had that been a more "popular" color, could have seen a significant price increase.

3. Options. It was a lower option car, but it had the unique options.

4. Non endura may have had some impact on desirablilty.

Someone got a really good deal for this car because of some of the items listed above.

I agree on all accounts Pat. In my opinion, the transmission (Manual vs. Auto) is one of THE biggest factors with the desirability of a car. A very close second is the color followed by an Endura when it comes to a LeMans. I have also always felt that a 72 LeMans Endura convert. has the edge over a 71 due to the more aesthetically pleasing recessed grills and the fender extractors. I think that 71 grills only look good blacked out as equipped on The Judge. The other issue is that in 1971 you could have had a GTO convert. and a Judge convert. In 72 The LeMans convert was it! I am biased however and also feel that the 71 and 72 H.O. cars are the most under appreciated Pontiacs ever built. They seem to be coming on and look for that to continue in the future. I have turned allot of multi-brand collectors on to these cars (Both A and F bodies) and they have all been impressed. A couple of them have even jumped the Chevrolet/Corvette ship and become Pontiac/Trans Am collectors.

P.S. I would also have to add that ANY of the "Earth Tones" (IE: greens, golds, coppers, tans, etc.) WERE extremely "popular" in 1971 and 1972. Just not that desired today. That's what makes a "GOOD" colored car that much more sought after.
Pat, It was nice to have finally met you at Norwalk!

[Judge273]

If you think, that a 71 455HO 4 speed LeMans vert survivor is only worth 19K because of this auction. Here's what I think I know..Offer Dan Jensen 19K or less for his 71 HT T-37 HO Auto survivor, and see if he takes it or laughs....

So, PB is right it was the lack of knowledge from seller and the educated bidders looking for and getting a deal of the year.

At least we do know it wasn't a shill bid...BTW: Jeff, do you know who got it? Would you sell your 72 HO vert to me for 19K?

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by Judge273

If you think, that a 71 455HO 4 speed LeMans vert survivor is only worth 19K because of this auction. Here's what I think I know..Offer Dan Jensen 19K or less for his 71 HT T-37 HO Auto survivor, and see if he takes it or laughs....

So, PB is right it was the lack of knowledge from seller and the educated bidders looking for and getting a deal of the year.

At least we do know it wasn't a shill bid...BTW: Jeff, do you know who got it? Would you sell your 72 HO vert to me for 19K?

I am in no way implying that this 71 H.O. convert. is only worth 19k. I think it is worth at least twice that. I thought that I may steal it with my bid and I was only $100.00 away from doing that. As you know, I have wayyy too many cars already so I was not as driven to obtain this car and have to store another one.
As far as the 72 H.O. vert? I have more than twice that into it! I am still nuts over that car!

P.S. The thought of a "shill bid" of only $20k for that car never crossed my mind.

[Judge273]

[QUOTE= However, if a ragtop only brought 19k, I do wonder what a similar hardtop could be bought for now.[/QUOTE]

Jeff, I was referring to this quote by Pat to dispel the value theory. But, you did a fine job..I rest my case as this could be the steal of the year...

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by Judge273

Jeff, I was referring to this quote by Pat to dispel the value theory. But, you did a fine job..I rest my case as this could be the steal of the year...

Gotcha Pal! It was a steal for sure!