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gotpls · 01-01-2005, 11:44 PM

Wow, I havent't been in the Pontiac game for very long, and hope one day to be able to post some pics of my 72 Lemans Sport Convertible. I could spend hours just studying the posts written on detail, but then they come with pics too! This is great! Thanks for the education.

Jack Peters · 01-02-2005, 12:31 AM

Steved,

Let me see if I got this right. You are saying that the rivets are in backwards???? What we see in the pic should be on the other side of the vin?

I guess I will have to go out and look at mine. Never been removed.

Steve Hoog · 01-02-2005, 08:31 AM

Jack

Yes indeed I am saying that, it would seem to be a silly way to try an conceal non correct rivots.

And on top of that the plate itself is mounted wrong.

I would have no clue who is responsible, but I would hold the seller some what accountable for not disclosing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this one, which makes me wonder what kinda of amateur did it.

There is an outside chance some one at the factory did it for a joke or some other crazy reason, but I think all clues look toward rebody.

Steve

Ogre · 01-02-2005, 01:06 PM

JLP,

Here's another shot of my vin ... the dash is brown. The 90 degree bent "tabs" which hold the rivet are below the black vin tag.

I'll try to "kidnap" the Wagner GT photo that PB posted in the next posting so you can see them next to each other.

Pat O'Grady

Ogre · 01-02-2005, 01:08 PM

Here's teh next one ...
Ogre

CDN2PLS2 · 01-02-2005, 02:22 PM

Hey Forrest? I see you mentioned (8)
Isn't the total 7?
5 Auto
2 Stick
I noticed these two aren't in Dan's Registery.

Jack Peters · 01-02-2005, 03:46 PM

It actually looks as if it were mounted under the mounting tabs instead of on top of it. Completely different. Not even close. And rivets are backwards. Hmmmmm........

trishieldchief · 01-09-2005, 03:10 PM

This car is a Pontiac built car and all Pontiac built cars had Rivets installed upside down.
Rivets are correct for Pontiac assembly plant.

steve v · 01-09-2005, 03:21 PM

I had a 69 LeMans years back & the rivets on the vin tag came up from the bottom also.
Never say never.
Steve V

Ogre · 01-09-2005, 04:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by trishieldchief:
This car is a Pontiac built car and all Pontiac built cars had Rivets installed upside down.
Rivets are correct for Pontiac assembly plant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never say never (Steve V)and never say ALL ... mine is a factory built Pontiac and the VIN Tag is not installed up side down!!!

CDN2PLS2 · 01-09-2005, 04:19 PM

Hey Rich! Now you've got me thinking I should go to the garage and look at the tag on my '72.

Ogre · 01-09-2005, 05:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by CDN2PLS2:
Hey Rich! Now you've got me thinking I should go to the garage and look at the tag on my '72. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To anyone attempting to remove the plastic cover, please be careful !! This is not a very substantial piece and you could break off the two little plastic tabs which hold it in place. As I said in several of my posts, my windshield is removed so it's easy for me ... be careful.

Steve Hoog · 01-09-2005, 06:39 PM

Ogre is correct, I broke mine just as described for this thread.

I totally disagree with some ones assumption that all Pontiac built cars came like that. I find it very hard to believe a line worker would go through the trouble to posistion his rivot gun upside down and at the same time holding the plate in place under the panel.

The normal procedure would have been to lay it on the tabs allowing the plate to stay in posistion on it's own, all the worker would then have to do is line the rivots and pop it.

I do however agree with "never say never", and yes it is ever so slighty possible a line worker did it this way, but I firmly believe it was unlikely.

The real proof is in the fact I would NEVER buy a car with a vin/rivot situation like this, and I suspect most educated buyers would feel the same. Now if some one had some pics of the star rivots from the under side of dash to show me, it would mean a lot more than disscussion in this forum.

PrimerPerfectGTO · 01-11-2005, 09:52 PM

Heres an attempt to upload a picture of my car. It probably wont work because I dont know how to use a computer, but oh well.

BTW sorry to go offtopic from the VIN plate. Mine is rivited the "right" way.

And please, Dont rip me apart for the shape its in. It was saved from a crusher. 18 and no support for this project, and Im working as hard as I can. My pops wanted me to buy an import.....

Ogre · 01-12-2005, 08:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by PrimerPerfectGTO:
And please, Dont rip me apart for the shape its in. It was saved from a crusher. 18 and no support for this project, and Im working as hard as I can. My pops wanted me to buy an import..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Primer,

Don't apologize for your GTO. I've got a '72 LeMans in my garage that is badly eaten with rust, but it'll have better days. Your 70 looks great next to mine.

Make your GTO something you'll enjoy and you'll soon find out that it will never be finished, but it'll be fun. Some will say "keep it original", but I say just enjoy and make it the way you want it, but never misrepresent what you did.

Welcome aboard ... there's some great advice on this forum from some really smart folks. I'm just not one of them! (ha)

Ogre

snakepod · 01-12-2005, 06:48 PM

I also have a 69 GTO which I believe is numbers matching. The last portion of my vin is on my engine block and M-21 Trans. All of the options on the car are listed in the PHS docs. I have also had the opportunity to speak with the last three owners. My vin tag is placed on the tabs correctly but also looks to have been placed upside down. The car was built in Baltimore. I have no reason to suspect a rebody, but now Im wondering. When I get it on a lift I'll check for the vin on the frame.

snakepod · 01-12-2005, 06:49 PM

Sorry . Meant to say rivets were placed upside down.

RicksGTO · 01-12-2005, 10:57 PM

My '69 GTO, built in Pontiac, and others I've looked at have the rivets "upside down" as well. Mine is exactly like the photo of the '72 at Wagner's with the vin plate below and the rivets from the bottom. Several others have posted that they have the same on their rivets/VIN tag and that they have seen other examples to support this placement. This is just one of the many things that was not done the same in every plant. Rick

Steve Hoog · 01-13-2005, 05:58 AM

If I'm wrong that's the way it is, I have never seen one like that I have noticed.

If this is indeed the case; which sounds like may be, I would still be inclined to climb under the dash and see the star pattern if I were going to buy a car. $10,000 or $100,000+.

Rick have you looked from underneath to see the star pattern on your car? I would like to hear that from one person before I give into to this.

Ogre · 01-13-2005, 06:39 AM

Steve,

I am beginning to believe that it may have something to do with Year & Assembly plant.

While I still believe that the star head on the rivet was designed to be proof of "From the factory with no tampering", there seem to be a LOT of VINs installed above and below the dash tabs and star and non-star heads up. I obviously don't know the answer, but I also think it is improbable that so many vehicles have been "re-bodied".

I wish some of the old heads and even the PHS folks would weigh in on this subject, but that's probably unlikely, so this may continue to be a mystery.

Pat O'Grady

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