[Hesster1977]

The "Royal Pontiac" story.
From Pontiac Mag Feb 1986

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Schornak did the work on the '64 car, but the '65 setup came out of PMD engineering Experimental Metal shop.

K

Mike here:

I always wondered how that set up worked, it is the opposite of mine. I have the 1979 Pontiac Trans -am with a 1976 Formula Hood with an added Trans-am scoop glued to the top with the open side toward the windshield for true air induction. Race car drivers have known that the wind off the windshield at high speed will push the air into an already induced vacuum created through the Tri-power Carbs. This is before I bought the Ram Air pan, the next Post will show it with the upgrade.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mike here: Keith,

I always wondered how that set up worked, it is the opposite of mine. I have the 1979 Pontiac Trans -am with a 1976 Formula Hood with an added Trans-am scoop glued to the top with the open side toward the windshield for true air induction. Race car drivers have known that the wind off the windshield at high speed will push the air into an already induced vacuum created through the Tri-power Carbs. This is before I bought the Ram Air pan, the next Post will show it with the upgrade.

Mikes Reply:
These are Photos after the Tri-power Ram Air Pan was installed. Note, that I wrap the Fuel Bowls in Phenolic material and I made Plates for under the Bowls out of Aluminum Block off plates and glued the phenolic material to them, under the plate I glued a cut out Computer Mouse Pad with Mylar to the Aluminum lower area and the Rubber side exposed to the heat, so that the plate wont heat. Altogether this keeps the heat from the top of the motor from heating the fuel. The cross overs are blocked at the Heads.

I also installed a Phenolic under the Intake Manifold and above the Vally pan. Using a Diamond plate from a Barbecue that is hollow, I wrapped the lower side in Phenolic Material and the upper side with Fiberglass. Then I sealed the edges with Metal Duct Tape. No Heat can rise under my center Carb. I wrap my Metal fuel lines in Phenolic Material too. I lower the Float Bowl settings on the Floats as well. Keeps it from boiling over in the heat down here in Florida. I use Rec-90 Fuel that has no Alcohol in its mixture. Because i run AC I kept the Factory shroud and Fan Blades, Plus I run a heavy-duty Truck type Clutch, Temperature actuated. The Thermostat is 180 degrees and has the 3 holes drilled in it for bypass. I use 50%/50% Antifreeze with Watter Wetter in Distilled Water. I run Both an Electric Fan with the Factory set-up. I added a side kick made from an existing Heater core, with an Electric fan for extra cooling when I am at a light.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I cleaned up your posts 253 and 255, but from now on please either make your posts smaller or else put the text in an attachment.

Mikes Reply: I will do my best to comply when it is possible.

Here are several views of my Ram Air Pan under the
Rochester Tri-power Carbs., there 1966 with all 3 having the largest Flange. I have heard they flow 800 cfm, but I don't know if my Heads Flow as much. My Heads are the 1967 Pontiac 428 ci "D"-Port (670).

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike here with some Royal Bobcat:


"Legends" Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac Dealership



Asa 'Ace' Wilson, Jr. wasn't interested in the dairy business that his father had established. His father bought a small Pontiac dealership for Ace in the late 1950s which Ace renamed Royal Pontiac. Royal Pontiac was located at 400 North Main Street in the Detroit suburb of Royal Oak, Michigan.

In Sept, 1959 Pontiac advertising account hotshot Jim Wangers took his performance campaign to the next level. Wangers had unofficial factory support behind his plan to create a "test" dealership that would package performance as the basis for sales. The factory sponsored racing and performance parts counter would translate directly to increased sales at Royal Pontiac. Wangers went to Ace Wilson Jr. and gave him the sales pitch. "He was so enthusiastic about it he went ballistic and would not let me out of his office until he signed a contract," Wangers recalled. "I told him besides selling high-performance parts, he had to put a car on the dragstrip and he did."
With factory support, Royal successfully campaigned a 1959 Catalina in National Hot Rod Association drag racing. On Labor Day 1960, Royal-tuned Super Dutys won three races at three venues.

The old adage, "win on Sunday, sell on Monday' certainly applied to Royal, and customers seeking high-performance Pontiacs came in droves to the Royal Oak, Michigan-based dealership. The term "Bobcat" was coined by Wangers and Wilson loved it.

A 1962 Catalina served as the basis of the first "Royal Bobcat". This car set a precedent for performance dealership special editions. High performance tweaks plus unique paint and the Bobcat name resulted in a complete package. The Bobcat name soon came to denote a kit which was an add-on option. Unlike the first car which had the Catalina nameplate completely removed to emphasize the new Bobcat identity, later cars were 'Bob - catted' versions of a GTO or a Catalina or a Grand Prix. A 'Royal Bobcat' badge was added to the rear roof pillar resulting in a 'GTO Bobcat' or a 'Grand Prix Bobcat'. Eventually, the "Royal Bobcat" badges and performance kit could be bought from the dealership by mail order. The kit was very popular because it was an inexpensive straightforward proven way to significantly improve performance.

Most press cars were Royal Bobcat cars. John DeLorean, head of Pontiac made certain that Jim Wangers had carte blanche when it came to the test cars released by Pontiac to enthusiast magazines. Wangers made sure that those cars were tuned within an inch of their lives. In his memoirs Wangers admits that they even went further than just a Bobcat package with two famous test cars. The 1964 GTO test that 'made' the Pontiac GTO was printed in CAR AND DRIVER at a time when the editors of the magazine were looking for a way to change their image from elite foreign sports cars to being a general enthusiast magazine. The fact that CAR AND DRIVER dared compare the legitimately homologated Ferrari GTO with a Pontiac sparked off a great deal of controversy. The purists hated the fact that Pontiac used the GTO name without having any intention or apparent credentials as a GTO racer. For every purist reader who dropped CAR AND DRIVER they probably picked up more than one domestic car fan. The controversy goes further: the Pontiac GTO produced stunning performance figures. Decades later Jim Wangers admitted that the GTOs were 'ringers'. The 389 engines were replaced with 421s which are externally identical. As if that wasn't enough, the 421s were also Bobcats.

At his peak, Ace's dealership was selling more than 1,000 Royal Bobcat conversions per year. "Our best year was 1966 with the GTO and some of the Grand Prix. Wilson sold many more Royal Bobcat kits through the mail and, in essence, became the first high-performance mail order dealer." In 1968, Royal started installing 428 engines into GTOs, a practice forbidden by GM. By 1969, Ace had had enough of the "internal" resistance from his father and the general manager, Tom McQueen, who also hated performance and wanted nothing to do with it. So, in 1970, he sold his Royal Racing Team to John DeLorean's brother, George, who owned Leader Automotive.

Here's a Bobcat package: Rocker arm locking nuts; new rocker cover gaskets; thinner head gaskets by 0.022-0.025 inches, to increase compression; rocker cover gaskets; blocked heat riser gasket; carburetor re-jetting package; distributor re-curve kit, which included Mallory points and condenser and a new advance stop with lighter weights and springs and two Royal Bobcat emblems.

By 1974, Ace was totally burned out from the dealership and moved to northern Michigan to pursue real estate development. He died in the late 1980s from an inoperable tumor in his throat.

But the Royal Pontiac Bobcat name and his legacy will live on in Pontiac lore.

Some facts and quotes were taken from the internet and Pontiac forums.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike here with more on Royal Bobcat:

Muscle Cars You Should Know: ’69 Royal Bobcat Pontiac GTO Ram Air V

Street Muscle
News


Possibly one of the most legendary Pontiacs to ever heat up the asphalt, the 1969 Royal Bobcat Pontiac GTO Ram Air V all started with a befuddled father unclear to how to knock some sense into his unruly, street racing son. Asa Wilson Sr. decided to get his progeny, Asa Junior – known to friends and fellow racers as “Ace” – off the streets of 1950’s Detroit by buying him a Pontiac dealership. While seeming unimaginably drastic, the decision to purchase a car dealership with a fully-equipped service department was Asa Senior’s attempt to tap into his son’s interests.

The Wilson family was quite wealthy, making their fortune via the Ira Wilson and Sons Dairy which was as large as it was successful. Breaking from the family business, Ace was more interested in head-to-head racing. While the senior Wilson failed to understand his son’s lust for high performance street machines, and while father and son failed to ever meet eye-to-eye, Ace’s efforts elevated Royal Pontiac to one of the brand’s most profitable dealers during its short lifespan.

Located in Royal Oaks, Michigan, the newly opened Royal Pontiac quickly became the stomping grounds of groups of street racing kids. Droves of performance-loving teenagers and young adults were regularly found hanging around Royal’s service department just wanting to see what the gearheads at Royal were up to. Royal had quickly risen towards the top of the national performance dealership list with its close-nit participation with Pontiac corporate.

A decade before the ’69 Royal Bobcat Pontiac GTO was a reality, a major core shift within Pontiac’s management occurred. In 1959, Semon “Bunkie” Knudsen was made general manager. Despite an image of selling “stodgy, underperforming cars,” Bunkie demanded that Pontiac’s engineers eke out 100 more horsepower out of their V8, which “lead to the development of over-the-counter high-performance parts in 1959,” said former Pontiac marketing guru and GTO founding father Jim Wangers.

Next, Knudsen contacted Wangers to help and to try sell Pontiac as a performance brand on a wider scale. Meeting strong internal resistance, Knudsen killed his initial proposal of selling a three-day seminar to all 27 Pontiac dealer zones, but pulled Wangers aside and told him to go out and find a dealer willing to take on the task of helping make Pontiac a full-fledged performance brand. When Wangers gave Ace Wilson Jr. the sales pitch, “[Ace] was so enthusiastic about it, he went ballistic and would not let me out of his office until he signed a contract,” Wangers recounted. “I told him besides selling high-performance parts, he had to put a car on the dragstrip and he did.”

With full factory support, Royal successfully campaigned a ’59 Catalina in the National Hot Rod Association (NHRA). On Labor Day 1960, the Royal-tuned Super Dutys won three races at three separate venues. Right then, Royal Pontiac had solidified itself as the performance Pontiac headquarters. Customers seeking high-performance Pontiacs came in droves to the Royal Oak, Michigan. Initially, and because of their prior success, 99-percent of the “Royal Bobcats” sold were Catalinas. Wangers recalled, “We had to come up with a special emblem so we took the letters we needed to spell BOBCAT from the block letters PONTIAC and BONNEVILLE and they fit right into the pre-drilled holes on the Catalinas.”

Fortuitously, when GM pulled out of racing in 1963, Royal Pontiac jumped at the opportunity to modify and tune Pontiacs on a far larger scale. As Royal’s customization efforts swelled, so did Pontiac’s efforts into performance with the introduction of the GTO. Almost immediately, Royal was performing their famous “Super- tunes” on new ’64 GTOs. Already the most powerful mid-sized car on the market, Royal took the GTO – rechristening it the Bobcat GTO – and created a street machine worthy of national notoriety.

At its peak, Royal Pontiac was selling more than 1,000 Royal Bobcat conversions per year. Royal’s best year was 1966 thanks to their modded GTO and Grand Prix. Surprisingly, Ace sold more Royal Bobcat kits through the mail than by physically installing them, making them, in essence, the first high-performance mail order dealer.

The mail ordered kit consisted of a large box packed with thinner head gaskets (0.022-0.025-inches), blocked heat riser intake gaskets, a distributor re-curve kit, which included Mallory points and condenser with a new advance stop with lighter weights and springs, larger jets for the carburetors, rocker arm locknuts, colder-running Champion J10Y spark plugs, and the necessary valve cover and valley pan gaskets to perform the modification. The kit also included Royal Racing Team club decals, Royal Bobcat body stickers, a “GR-RRR” license plate, and Royal Pontiac license plate frames.

Considered the lowest level of Royal’s “Bobcat” performance modification packages, those who craved more power opted for a car prepared and sold directly through Royal Pontiac and featured a unique paint scheme of a white valence panel, hood stripe, rocker panels stripes, and trunk lid over Crystal Turquiose with all the Royal Bobcat badging.

Beginning with the Royal Bobcat performance kit above, Royal went a little further by blueprinting, CC’ing, and milling the cylinder heads. This was to equalize the compression and chamber volume for all eight cylinders. Working with the thinner head gaskets, this modification spiked the cylinder compression well over 11-to-1. Additionally, Royal measured and shimmed the valve springs so all 16 springs were at the exact same height. While nothing groundbreaking, these efforts provided a level of quality control unattainable in mass-produced vehicles.

But it was in 1968 when Royal started installing the venerable 428ci engines into GTOs (against GM’s pleas, demands and threats). This level was the most drastic, and subsequently, the most expensive of the Royal Bobcats. The Ram Air V was a special 400ci block with newly designed high compression tunnel port heads and a special high rise intake manifold. Available only as an “over-the-counter” engine, the 428 was the stuff of Pontiac legend. If so equipped, the Royal Bobcat GTO RAM V came to the Royal Oaks dealership hollow from the assembly line.

The factory did not install the engine (as it was adamantly against GM’s plus-400ci policy), but did build it exclusively for Royal Pontiac and provided the full RAM AIR V motor separately. Skirting the cubic-inch policy, the official Pontiac factory paperwork read “Engineering Development Demo” with a cost of $2300 while the completed car was selling for around $3400. Since Royal Pontiac purchased the rolling body from Pontiac’s factory floor, Royal was the first owner to title the car. Even though there were a little over 200 RAM AIR V engines produced, most were sold disassembled or to a small selection of well-connected persons and race teams.

A prototype GTO equipped with the 428 package reportedly clocked a 5.2-second 0-60 mph time and a quarter-mile pass of 11.5 seconds at 123 mph. In early 1969, a Royal Pontiac-prepared GTO, driven by Royal’s Milt Schornack, showed the world – and Popular Hot Rodding – how potent a mid-level Bobcat GTO (running a Royal-blueprinted Ram Air IV 400ci) truly was.

The ’69 GTO was equipped with power disc brakes, a manual 4-speed, a 3.90 posi, a Schiefer Rev-Lok pressure plate and clutch, Doug’s Headers (with 2-inch primaries and 3 1/2-inch collectors), and 8.00-8.50 x14 Goodyear cheater slicks. With open headers and slicks, the big Ram Air IV Goat ran a 12.62-second pass at 109.52 mph. In street trim – closed pipes and street tires – the same GTO ran 8-tenths of a second slower at 13.42 @ 108.42 mph on a very cold day for testing with stiff head winds.

By the end of 1969, Ace had had enough of the infighting with his demanding father and Pontiac’s general manager, Tom McQueen, who equally despised performance and wanted Pontiac to have nothing to do with it. So, in 1970, Ace sold his Royal Racing Team to John DeLorean’s brother, George, and walked away from the very thing that made Royal Pontiac a spot on the map.

Despite this turn of events and the years that would prelude the dealership’s closure, Royal Pontiac was able to turn a bland, run-of-the-mill brand of equally unexciting cars into a family of rip-snorting, in-your-face street performers. No other dealership could be more instrumental in Pontiac’s Apollo-rocket ascent into the stratosphere of muscle car hierarchy, and the few existing Royal Bobcat GTO Ram Air V’s are evidence of it.



Posted on Sep 3, 2010

By Kevin Shaw

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike, finding more about Royal in my Archives:

Royal Pontiac of Royal Oak, Michigan was the epicenter of Pontiac performance beginning in the late 1950s. This success translated to increased over-the-counter parts sales and the introduction of the Bobcat tuning kit. Specially developed to wring maximum power from the Pontiac V8s, the kit included extra-thin head gaskets, a distributor advance curve kit, intake heat riser blocks, richer carb jetting and positive-locking rocker hold-down nuts for more accurate valve adjustments. The conversion took about five hours and resulted in notable performance gains. Some dealer-equipped cars wore special Bobcat badges and paint treatment.

The Tyrol Blue 1967 GTO convertible offered here was purchased from a Pennsylvania dealer who performed the Bobcat conversion for the buyer. It is equipped with a Ram Air 400/360 HP engine, 4-speed, Saf-T-Track rear end and power steering and brakes. A crisp White soft top, polished Hurst aluminum wheels and Redline tires give it great cosmetics, while inside the Black bench seat passenger compartment comprises a woodgrain Sport wheel and dash trim, AM/FM radio and 8-track and a floor-mounted factory Hurst shifter. The car is PHS documented and retains all original drivetrain, sheet metal and interior, features that have earned it a GTO Nationals win and feature coverage in Muscle Car Review and Muscle Car Color History GTO.

Highlights:

- PHS documentation
- Won GTO Nationals Columbus, OH 1989
- Featured in Muscle Car Color History GTO by Paul Zazzarine
- Featured in Muscle Car Review in 1989
- Purchased new at Roy Friend Pontiac in Pennsylvania
- Royal Bobcat package has always been known to have been added at Roy Friend Pontiac
- 400/360 HP HO engine
- 4-speed transmission
- Power steering
- Ram Air hood
- AM/FM 8-track
- Saf-t-track
- Power brakes
- Hurst wheels
- Original drivetrain
- Original sheet metal
- Original interior




Fitch Firebird 400 and Sprint (1967)

John Fitch was the first SCCA national champion driver. GM hired him to run a factory Corvette race team at Sebring in 56 and or 57. After that he started John Fitch & Co. in Falls Village CT, his big thing was making modified Corvairs called Sprints. They were available through certain Chevy dealers, similar to Yenko’s. He also tweaked other cars such as a 67 Olds, some VW’s. He later became involved in automotive safety barriers. Fitch knew John DeLorean who was running Pontiac in 1967, and DeLorean sent Fitch 1 400ci Firebird and 1 OHC 6 cylinder with a four barrel (Pontiac Sprint engine) to play around with as an engineering exercise. When he was done with the 2 cars they where brought back to Pontiac for the evaluation and also to Lime Rock race track in CT. The Fitch cars ran back-to-back tests with Pontiac engineering dept cars called PFST. At the end of the tests Fitch felt his car was better suited for everyday street driving while the Pontiac PFST wasn’t real a street car, more of a race car. My understanding is Pontiac never backed the Fitch car program other than sending Fitch the first 2 cars, and Fitch busy with his other projects at the time, never really marketed them other than a few magazines road tests. Fitch doesn’t remember how many cars he made in the end, it seems to be around 6-8 cars, all 400ci engines except the 1 OHC Sprint. The Sprint car had factory options of rally gages, console, tilt, wood wheel, deluxe interior, 4 speed, am/fm, hood tach, rally wheels, tinted glass, power disc brakes, and radial tires (actual option on Firebirds in 67). For Fitch mods there’s Koni Front shocks, Lucas Flame thrower driving light, mesh in front of the light/grill, adjusted caster, rubber bumpers on the shaft of the front shocks (to change spring rate), re-valved steering and brakes, headlight flasher switch, one time wiper switch, light monitoring panel, leather steering wheel cover, Judson coil, dual exhaust, and the fins and the quarter panels (they were to cooling the brakes and let air into the interior but never developed). Also, for the 6-cylinder car Fitch wanted to supercharge it, but never actually developed it. A fitch opted car would sell for about $1000 more than the sticker price on a car. Fiberglass fins are designed to scoop air into interior of car for fresh air supply with all windows closed. Fins also provide easy identification of Fitch-Bird, as opposed to standard Firebird, and were definitely eye-catching. The Fitch-Birds were distinguishable from standard by a wire mesh grille and headlight cover at the front, and Butress-Back tops, trademarks that have distinguished Fitch’s recent design efforts. On the test car, the built-in air vents in the Buttresses were non-functional. Fitch estimates cost of the Fitch Firebirds, complete with modifications, at approximately $1000 above the price of a well-equipped standard Firebird Sprint or Firebird 400, depending upon model desired.)
Pontiac Firebird Sprint Turismo (PFST) (1967)

The PFST cars were tested with the Fitch Firebird. The PFST exhibited much less lean through test curves than the Fitch-modified Firebird 400. PFST is aimed at SCCA sedan racing class. While shy on power, compared with other sedan racers with 300-cid V-8 engines, the 6-cyl. PFST is a match for anything in handling. More efficient antiroll bar, wide rims, and racing tires gave PFST tremendous cornering power, yet break- away was controllable. Fitch cars handle in acceptable fashion, with roll more apparent from outside than while driving. The PFST uses a 230-cid 1967 Firebird Sprint basic engine because it has a greater rpm potential than the longer-stroke 250-cid 1968 engine. A high-performance camshaft, recalibrated carburetor (single four-barrel) and distributor, and fabricated dual exhaust system, increase output approximately 50 bhp. The PFST engine is a bit weak at low speed, but turns on above 4000 rpm. From 4000 to 6000 rpm, the PFST sounds like a real race car, and moves down the road at a rate surprising to those accustomed to big V-8 power. The cylinder head rework performed on the standard Sprint head obviously is effective. As impressive as the engine modifications were, it was the suspension that was the eye opener. PFST became almost free from body roll even in rapid transient conditions. The steering response of the car, which has a faster-than-stock steering ratio, is excellent. The PFST carried 15×8.5-in. wheels and 10-in. wide Firestone Road racing tires. The PFST could probably be raced with success by a reasonably competent race driver without danger or difficulty. In short, it’s an enjoyable club racer, good enough to win some local track trophies.)
Royal Pontiac “Bobcat” Firebird (various sub-models) (1967-1970)

Royal Pontiac was a dealership located in Royal Oak, Michigan. Founded by dragracer Ace Wilson, Royal Pontiac began making modifications to Pontiacs back in 1959, and selling these cars to customers. The Royal Bobcat “kit” could be ordered through the mail by any enthusiast. It consisted of a large box containing thinner head gaskets, blocked heat riser intake gaskets, distributor recurve kit, larger jets for the carb(s), rocker arm locknuts, colder spark plugs (Champion J10Y), and the necessary gaskets (valve cover, valley pan) to perform the modification. It also included Royal Racing Team club decals, Royal Bobcat body stickers, a “GR-RRR” license plate, and “Royal Pontiac” license plate frames. This was a very popular kit in the mid to late 60’s. The kit could also be installed by Royal, and for these they went a little further by also blueprinting, cc’ing, and milling the cylinder heads. In addition to Firebirds, the “Royal Bobcat” package was also available for the Catalina, Grand Prix, and GTO.)
Lane “American Eagle” Firebird (1967)

No substantial documentation is currently known of the existence of this dealer modification package, but here is the information that was provided to FirebirdGallery by a previous owner of one of these cars. Lane Buick Pontiac Olds in Fairfield, California decided to build a limited number (14 according to the source) of special ’67 Firebirds with what they called the “American Eagle” package. The dealership started with either a Polar White or Montego Cream Firebird. Each came with a custom interior coded either red, black, or blue. Next the following modifications were applied: 1) A lucerne blue stripe was added running the length of the middle of the car. 2) The air cleaner, riser, valley pan, and master cylinder cover were chromed. 3) The A.I.R. pump and alternator were polished aluminum. 4) A heavy-duty radiator and dual exhaust were added. 5) All emblems were inset with red paint and the slits on the quarters received the same treatment. These cars were rated at 260hp. They were equipped with the 326 2bbl V8 and contained the same Crank and Cam as the 326 HO. They were also outfitted with consoles, floor shifters, power steering, Rally IIs, full rally gauges, and manual drum brakes.)
Myrtle Motors “Tiger” Firebird (1968) (various sub-models)

Myrtl Motors Corp. was located at 61-20 Fresh Pond Rd., Maspeth, NY. Myrtle Motors was also in the business of “tweaking” Pontiacs for customer enjoyment, just like Royal Pontiac. Although they never garnered the attention Royal Pontiac did, Myrtle Motors built some very stout cars. The mods performed by Myrtle Motors to the 428 powered Firebird were almost identical to the famous Royal Bobcat package. The cost ranged from $2,781.00 to $5,149.74. Myrtle also modified GTOs.)

1968 Firebird 428 TH-400, 3.90 posi-Traction 12.55 @ 110 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.0 sec, 0-60 mph : 4.9 sec

Options: PB, P/S Wt : 3800 (curb) Magazine: PHR (9/68)

Notes: This was Myrtle Motors conversion car. Myrtle Motors was also in the business of “tweaking” Pontiacs for customer enjoyment, just like Royal Pontiac. Although they never garnered the attention Royal Pontiac did, Myrtle Motors built some very stout cars. The mods performed by Myrtle Motors to this 428 powered Firebird were almost identical to the famous Royal Bobcat kit (level 2). Car had Ram Air. On stock F70-14 tires, the car ran 13.90 with severe tire spin. The car had 428 emblems on the hood, but for some odd reason, a 400 emblem on the trunk lid.
Canadian “Comanche” Firebird (1969)

Promoted as “a true North American Grand Touring car”, it was sold exclusively in Montreal at Grant Hamilton Pontiac Buick, in Toronto at City Buick Pontiac-GMC, and in Ottawa at Surgenor Motors. The “Comanche” Firebird was only available at 3 dealerships in Quebec, Canada as listed in the brochure on the left. The dealers ordered a loaded Firebird from the factory, each with a gold leather interior (the only color available in leather). They were then re-painted a non-Firebird gold color with white accents. It is estimated that only about 30 of these were converted for sale to the public, and rumor has it Paul Newman may have bought one when he was filming in Montreal. Included options: Vinyl roof with special emblems, Marchal fog lamps, High speed driving lights with quartz bulbs, Special chrome hood louvers, Turbo Hydramatic or 4-speed close ration (either included a console), Variable ration power steering, Front power disc brakes, Remote trunk release, Radio, Door guards, Mirror group (vanity mirror and remote control mirror) Custom seat belts, Rally mag wheels, Special sport tilt steering wheel, Bucket seats (with the full leather interior), Rally Gauges with clock or tach, Floor mats (front and rear), Koni adjustable shocks, Special tire pump, Heavy duty air cleaner, Heavy duty radiator, Pirelli tires with special suspension, Power top (convertibles only), Rear defogger.)
Bales “Boss Bird” Trans Am (1971)

The stunning “Boss Bird” Trans Am is a ’71 model that was created by Dane Bales, Jr. It features a lowered suspension, SCCA road race style wheels, subframe connectors, worked SD 455 Pontiac engine, Doug Nash 4+1 manual transmission, Race style seats, Fiberglass Hood, Front-Fenders, and Doors, factory styled paint & graphics.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike found this, you will like this one, I do!


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Pontiac Road Tests

Compiled by Mike Noun

The following is a list of Pontiac Road tests from 1961-1974. I will be adding to

this list as time permits. I have always had a fascination with original road tests

(well, especially Pontiacs). These old magazines seem to capture the very essence of

what a Musclecar really was. The cars were brand new, and the magazine testers

thrashed them to their full potential, a feat very few current owners of classic

Musclecars can do because of the scarcity and value of their machine. There is a

reason we hold classic Muscle car principle so sacred. These cars were built to go

fast. They were built to battle at stoplights. They were status symbols of power.

Regardless of the Muscle car you own, and regardless of how you drive it, we all have

an insatiable curiosity to know how our cars compare against other Muscle cars. I

I hope the information contained below will allow us all to "bench race" a little bit

more.

The format I chose for this list was to include all the relavant information

contained in each road test rather than just listing ¼ mile times. I'm hoping that if

a particular road test sparks your interest, you'll be inspired to track the issue

down at the next car show or swap meet. There is obviously much more in each article

than I can summarize here, and of course the photos are priceless.

I have tried to include all the relevant information regarding options or

irregularities in each test, and you will find those under the "Notes". You will

notice that under the "Options" column, I have listed options which may have affected

the outcome of a test. Heavy options such as a/c, p/s, etc. Obviously, options like

hood tachs or optional interiors do not affect performance, but in some cases I have

included this information.

The tests listed below are from the original magazine(s) covering the Pontiac as a

new car. I have not included any contemporary road tests because I wanted to show an

accurate representation of how these potent Pontiacs ran when they were new. Because

of this, I have also bypassed articles and road tests where an older Pontiac may have

been tested in the same issue as a "new" Pontiac was tested. For instance, I have a

road test of a 1962 SD 421 Catalina, but the test was run in 1969, or I also have a

1969 test of a 1965 Royal Bobcat 1965 GTO. Because of advancements made in

technologly, these types of tests are not truly representative of how these

particular cars would have run brand new, so I did not include them in this listing.

Also note that some of these Pontiac tests were conducted against another Muscle car,

and in some cases, another Pontiac! I have split these tests individually. I have

also bypassed tests of full-size luxury Pontiacs, and Pontiacs not intended for

dragstrip duty such as the Sprint 6 and 326 Lemans/Firebirds. These were great cars,

but were not intended for quarter mile tests.

Pay special attention to the "weight" data in each test. Frequently, a magazine would

give a curb weight and a test weight. More often than not, the test weight was with

200 lbs. of test equipment in the trunk and 2 people aboard. The curb weight is the

car without driver or equipment. Occasionally, there is a shipping weight listed,

which is the weight of the car as delivered to a dealership (minus fluids). Many

times the weight will explain why a particular car was so fast or so slow.

What's a Royal Bobcat?



Royal Pontiac was a dealership located in Royal Oak, Michigan. Founded by dragracer

Ace Wilson, Royal Pontiac began making modifications to Pontiacs back in 1959, and

selling these cars to customers. As Royal's popularity grew, the modifications they

performed took on a name: "Bobcat". In 1961, Royal removed the individual "Pontiac"

letters from the tail panel of a 62 Catalina, and used "CAT" from Catalina, the "O"

from Pontiac, and the small and large "B" from "Bonneville" to spell out "BOB CAT". A

legend was born when Motor Trend tested this car in their 9/99 issue.

When GM pulled out of racing in 1963, Royal Pontiac saw a great opportunity to modify

and tune Pontiacs on a larger scale for their customers. In 1964, Royal began

performing their famous super tune to new 64 GTO's. Already the most powerful car in

the mid-size line, Royal's Bobcat GTOs was now gaining a strong reputation on the

streets in and around Detroit. Car and Driver tested a pair of 64 GTO's for their

famous "Ferrari GTO vs. Pontiac GTO" test in March 1964. This one test was by far the

most controversial road test of the 60's, and changed Car & Driver's image forever.

The shear audacity of comparing the legendary Ferrari GTO to an American 4 passenger

car sent shock waves through the industry, and subsequently put the Pontiac GTO on

the map. There were two GTO's tested, and both were modified by Royal. The exposure

Royal Pontiac obtained through this one article was priceless. Oddly enough, all the

hoopla about this one road test was somewhat overblown. The Ferrari wasn't even

present for the road test. During 1964 and 1965, the GTO dominated automotive

magazines. Royal Pontiac seemed to always get a mention in these articles, whether

they had modified the test car or not.

There were three distinct levels of modifications that Royal Pontiac performed for a

customer.
The Royal Bobcat "kit" could be ordered through the mail by any enthusiast. It

consisted of a large box containing thinner head gaskets, blocked heat riser intake

gaskets, distributor recurve kit, larger jets for the carb(s), rocker arm locknuts,

colder spark plugs (Champion J10Y), and the necessary gaskets (valve cover, valley

pan) to perform the modification. It also included Royal Racing Team club decals,

Royal Bobcat body stickers, a "GR-RRR" lisence plate, and "Royal Pontiac" license

plate frames. This was a very popular kit in the mid to late 60's.

This was a car prepared and sold through Royal Pontiac. The Royal Bobcat kit listed

above was installed by Royal, but they went a little further by blueprinting, cc'ing,

and milling the cylinder heads. The purpose of this was to have equal compression

and chamber volume in all 8 cylinders. In conjunction with the thinner head gaskets,

this modification usually lifted compression well over 11 to 1. The valve springs

were measured and shimmed so all 16 springs were at the exact same installed height.

These mods were nothing extravagent, just simple blueprinting that Pontiac could not

do in a mass produced car. Cars prepared and sold through Royal Pontiac were called

"Royal Bobcat" cars, and had the special Royal Bobcat stickers applied by Royal.
This level is the most drastic, and subsequently, the most expensive. Before even

taking delivery of the car, Royal would transplant a 421 tri-power (during the 64-66

era) into a GTO, and later, the 428 (67-69) in either the Firebird or GTO. Not many

"transplant" cars were sold.

Jim Wangers talks quite a bit about the atmosphere in and around Royal Pontiac's

service department in his wonderful book, "Glory Days". It seems surreal now, but

imagine groups of street racing kids just hanging around Royal's service department

just wanting to see and feel the Royal mystique. In those days, cars were not simply

transportation, they were a way of life. Most of Royal's notoriety came from

extensive coverage in major magazines, but in and around Woodward Ave., they're

famous super tunes were downright legendary.

When a manufacturer gives a car to a magazine to test, they naturally want it to

perform at its' best. If it didn't, once the article hit the newsstands, there wasn't

much a manufacturer could do about it. Naturally, the fit and finish of the overall

test car was checked out (usually) before handing it over to a magazine. But

mechanically, the old "give it a once over" was about all that was done to assure

that the car would run satisfactorily. But in the Pontiac world, whose very image was

that of pure performance, the mechanical side of the car needed to be perfect. This

is where Royal Pontiac came into the picture. Not every Pontiac tested went through

Royal, but if it did, you could be assured whether it had a Bobcat kit on it or not,

it was going to run well.

One thing that is certain, and that is if a car was tuned by Royal before a road

test, that information was disclosed up front to the magazine. There were no

"ringers" given to magazines. That could not be said of other manufacturers, who

frequently snuck "ringers" into road tests (most notably Ford) in hopes of getting a

good review. As the 60's wore on, it was more and more common for a manufacturer to

super tune a car before giving it to a magazine. This usually involves the car being

sent a factory tech center, and everything was checked and re-checked so it was in

razor sharp tune. The competition was extremely fierce among manufacturers when it

came to ¼ miles times in road tests. The best reviews obviously garnered the greatest

sales, not to mention bragging rights, and everyone was gunning for the mighty GTO

from 1964-1966. For a dragstrip test, it was not uncommon for a manufacturer to send

their test car to their own tech center to have an advance curve kit installed, a

stronger clutch, or in extreme cases, a complete engine blueprint. Sometimes items on

the chassis were changed depending on the type of test that was to be conducted. This

was touchy subject amongst the manufacturers, especially in a head-tohead comparison

test between different manufacturers. Sometimes the magazine testers would catch them

on a few points, and state in the article that this particular car "was a quite a bit

quicker than the one we tested with the same engine last year." Occasionally, a

manufacturer would send a "lightweight" version of their car, innocently absent of

sound deadener, and equipped with the most basic features to save weight. While these

types of cars generated great ¼ mile times, they were often chastised by magazine

testers for being noisy, rattly cars, and not much fun to drive around on the street.

So, the war was on, all started by Royal Pontiac's well-known preparation of Pontiacs.

It was a vicious game when it came to combating the industry leading GTO, and

Sometimes manufacturers would show no restraint in order to topple the king.

Who are these guys?



The practice of having a factory representative present during a road test was

relatively new in the early 60's. Very often, a manufacturer would simply send their

car to a magazine and let the over-zealous road testers have their way. What this

resulted in was the occasional poor road test, sometimes due to the fact that the

road tester/editor was not proficient with a manual transmission, but more often it

was because the car was slightly out of tune. Of course, the magazine testers did not

have a clue how to remedy these problems, nor did they care. Their job was to test

the car and report on their findings. You can imagine how much of an impact a poor

review may have on sales if a particular Musclecar fell on its' face at the

dragstrip. Manufacturers started paying special attention to rear end gear and

transmission selections when supplying a car for a road test. They of course had to

balance this with driveability, and equip the car with necessary luxury options to

please the road testers. Royal Pontiac made sure that the cars were tested by magazines

were equipped properly, and more often than not, had a representative present during

the actual test. This assured Royal and Pontiac themselves that if the car was having

slight mechanical trouble during a test, the problem could be remedied at that time

with twist of the screwdriver. As well as having a mechanically sound test car, it

was prudent of Royal Pontiac to send an experienced driver.

Properly equipping a test car may be hard to comprehend in today's era of modern,

computer controlled engines. Computer controlled Musclecars straight off the showroom

floor will run very close to what a magazine test car generates. There are three

reasons for this. First, new computer aided design, manufacturing, and assembly has

allowed mass-produced vehicles to be virtually identical from one example to the

next. Gone are the days when a particular engine just happened to come through with

"All the right clearances", and was noticeably quicker than an identical car. Second,

new Muscle cars have very few performance and drivetrain options compared to 60's

Musclecars. This means that for the most part, you can't go too wrong when ordering a

new Musclecar when only 2 rear gear ratios are offered, or 2 transmissions (auto or

stick), and virtually no significant engine performance options. In the 60's, each

Muscle car had dozens of drive-train, gear ratio, and engine performance options to

tailor a car to a specific customer. Third, adverse weather conditions do not affect

new computer-controlled cars in a significant way. The computer adjusts for fuel

quality, humidity, air temperature, etc. In the 60's, adverse weather conditions

could wreak havoc on a carbureted Muscle car. Because of these reasons, Royal Pontiac

liked to send a representative along with the car when it was being tested to either

remedy the situation, or answer questions.

Royal definitely had some "hot shoes" when it came to tuning and driving their

Pontiacs. The most proficient of these tuners and drivers was Milt Schornack, a wiry

individual with a flair for tuning and a tremendous knowledge of what it takes to

make a Pontiac run to its full potential. Milt did quite a bit of street racing in

and around Woodward Ave. area in Detroit for Royal Pontiac, and was very well

respected among the street crowd. Two other individuals, Sid and Dave Warren, were

also instrumental in the success of the Royal Pontiac legacy. On occasion, Dave

Warren attended a particular road test with Milt Schornack, especially when more than

one Pontiac was being tested. Dave was another experienced "hot shoe" when it came to

shifting a manual trans, so it was assured that if two 4-speed cars were to face off,

Milt and Dave were the two most capable people to drive. You will see these names

mentioned in the road tests below.

Magazine Abbreviations


CC = Car Craft, CD = Car & Driver, CL = Car Life, CR = Cars Magazine, CI = Cars

Illustrated,

DR = Drag Racing, HC = Hot Cars, HR = Hot Rod, MT = Motor Trend, PHR = Popular Hot

Rodding,

SS = Super Stock, S&S = Speed and Supercar

Other Abbreviations used

_______________________

OPTIONS: HH = hideaway headlights, P/S = power steering, PB = power brakes,

PDB = power disc brakes, 8L = 8-lug wheels, A/C = air conditioning, P/W = power

windows,

P/DL = power door locks

DRIVETRAIN: TP = Tri-power, T-400 = Turbo 400

1961 - 1967

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

61 Bonneville 389 TP (348 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi ----- @

98 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.8 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.9 sec, 0-100 mph : 19.0 sec

Options: 8L Wt : 4100 Magazine: CR (9/61) Notes: Tires were 8.50-14 stock on

8 lug wheels. For some odd reason, a Vertex magneto ignition was added to this car

for the test. No ¼ mile et was given.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

62 Catalina 421 SD 4-speed, 4.30 posi 13.9 @ 107 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.7 sec, 0-45 mph : 4.1 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.4 sec

Options: 8L Wt : 4500 (appox test wt) Magazine : MT (5/62)

Notes: Not officially a "Bobcat" car, but was tuned and by the Royal Racing Team. The

tires used were Goodyear recap slicks, and 150 lbs. of ballast was added to the rear

for traction. The exhaust pipes were disconnected from the manifolds. Poor weather

(35 deg) negated dragstrip use, so the times above were taken with a stopwatch.

Estimates placed this SD421 at 13.6 to 13.7 at the track, and if the engine and

chassis were set up, mid 12's were predicted.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

62 Catalina 389 TP (370 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 14.5 @ 95

mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.5 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.5 sec, 0-100 mph : 16.0 sec

Options: 8L Wt : 3940 (curb), 4300 (test) Magazine : CL (7/62)

Notes: Royal Bobcat prepared (level 1). Tires were stock 8.00-14. Royal also

converted the linkage on the tri-power to mechanical. The rear tail panel on this car

spelled out "BOBCAT" by taking 'CAT' from Catalina, the 'O' from Pontiac, and misc.

letter "B"'s from Bonneville.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

62 Grand Prix 421 (405 hp) 3-speed auto, 3.42 posi 14.3 @ 103 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.7 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.0 sec, 0-100 mph : 13.4 sec

Options: P/S, P/B, P/W, 8L Wt : 4330 (test) Magazine : CL (3/62)

Notes: Tires were stock 8.00-14. Spectacular performance out of the 4-barrel engine

coupled with the auto trans.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

64 GTO 389 TP (348 hp) 4-speed, 3.23 posi 14.8 @ 99 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.7 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.6 sec, 0-100 mph : 14.9 sec

Options: None Wt : 3470 (curb) 3800 (test) Magazine : CL (6/64)

Notes: Tires were stock redlines (7.50-14). Car had manual steering and brakes, but

cosmetic options included spinner hubcaps and exhaust splitters.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

64 GTO Cpe 389 TP (348 hp)* 4-speed, 3.90 posi 13.1 @ 115 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 1.8 sec, 0-60 mph : 4.6 sec, 0-100 mph : 11.8 sec.

Options: P/S Wt : 3485 (curb) 3850 (test) Magazine : CD (3/64)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Tires were stock 7.50-14 redlines. This is

the famous Car and Driver test that put the GTO on the map. It was directly compared

to the Ferrari GTO, but the Ferrari didn't show up for the test. Car and Driver then

used an artists rendering on the front cover showing the Pontiac GTO chasing the

Ferrari GTO into a corner. Created quite a controversy when "Tempest GTO : 0-100 in

11.8 sec" was announced right on the front cover. This GTO ran 12.8 @ 112 mph on

slicks. *Jim Wangers recently admitted that this car had a 421 H.O engine installed

prior to the test.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

65 2+2 421 HO (376 hp) 4-speed, 4.11 posi 13.8 @ 106 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 1.7 sec, 0-60 mph : 3.9 sec, 0-100 mph : 12.0 sec

Options: P/B, P/S Wt : 4155 (curb) 4400 (test) Magazine : CD (3/65)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared, but preparation unknown. Tires were 8.55x14 Firestone

(non-stock). Royal Pontiac representatives were present, but did not drive. Car was

tested against a Ferrari 330/GT 2+2 with a V-12 engine. The 0-60 time listed above of

3.9 seconds was a milestone mark as it was quoted as the fastest 0-60 mph time for a

production car (on street tires) for decades to come. Car was tested on a cold day

(44 degrees). The 2+2 was 1/3 the price of the Ferrari, and defeated it on the

dragstrip, and was within 1 second on the road course. The magazine testers were

extremely impressed with the 2+2.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

65 2+2 421 HO (376 hp) 4-speed, 4.11 posi 13.72 @ 100.4

mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.5 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.2 sec

Options: P/B, P/S, 8L Wt : 4190 (curb) Magazine : PHR (4/65)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Tires were M&H cheater slicks. Runs were

made with exhaust pipes disconnected from the manifolds. The driver was Jack "Doc"

Watson. The ¼ mile time was with one person aboard, the 0-30 and 0-60 were with two

aboard. This was a 2-car test, the other car being a Royal prepped 65 GTO (see next

test).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

65 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 13.98 @ 101.78 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.6 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.4 sec

Options: None listed Wt. : 3550 (curb) Magazine : PHR (4/65)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Tires were M&H cheater slicks. Runs were

made with exhaust pipes disconnected from the manifolds. The driver was Jack "Doc"

Watson. The ¼ mile time was with one person aboard, the 0-30 and 0-60 were with two

aboard. This was a 2-car test, the other car being a Royal prepped 2+2 (see previous

test).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

65 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.11 posi 14.5 @ 100 mph

Addtl times: 0-40 mph : 3.6 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.8 sec, 0-100 mph : 14.5 sec.

Options: PB, P/S Wt. : 3590 (curb) 3920 (test) Magazine: CL (5/65)

Notes: Tires were 7.75x14. The purpose of this test was to order a 65 GTO the way Car

Life testers would want it. An extremely long list of options included Rally 1

wheels, transistorized ignition, metallic brakes, and exhaust splitters. Times listed

above are with 2 people on board. Strangely enough, the Royal Pontiac crew was

consulted on how to order this GTO, and tests were performed on an identical 65 GTO

to the one the Car Life crew ordered. The other car was simply tuned (no Bobcat kit),

and the exhaust pipes were disconnected at the manifolds. The air cleaners were

removed, and 9.0x14 M&H cheater slicks installed. With Dick Jesse of Royal Pontiac

driving, the car ran 14.06 @ 102.14 mph.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

66 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.55 posi 14.05 @ 105.14 mph

Addtl. times: None

Options: P/S, P/B Wt. : 3620 (test) Magazine : CD (3/66)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Car also had Ram Air system. Tires were

Firestone 7.75-14 Super Stock 500 street tires. This test pitted the 66 GTO against 5

other Musclecars: Olds 442, Buick GS 400, SS 396 Chevelle, Ford Fairlane GT/A, and a

Mercury Comet Cyclone GT. To level the playing field, Firestone supplied the same

tires to all participants. This was a long, fascinating article that compared these

Muscle cars on the strip as well as the road course. The manufacturers were in

tremendous competition with each other, and it was indeed amusing to see the lengths Ford

and Mercury went through to "bend the rules". Ironically, Ford's over-prepared

entries lost out in just about every category.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

66 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.33 posi 13.04 @ 106.75 mph

Addtl times: None given

Options: P/S, P/B Wt : 3478 (ship) 3485 (curb) Magazine : CC (12/65)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were M&H cheater slicks. Car had Ram

Air system. The car was fully prepped by Royal, and Milt Schornack drove this GTO to very

impressive times. This car was shown on the cover of Car Craft, in beautiful Tiger

Gold with a black top, red inner fenders, and a tiger tail coming out of the back of

the hood. The Royal preparation was fairly extensive, with dual electric fuel pumps,

drag shocks, air bags, Doug's headers (open for test), and different suspension

bushings. This car was also ordered (from Pontiac) with a minmum of sound insulation,

which shaved additional weight.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

66 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.33 posi 12.68 @ 110 mph

Addtl. times: None

Options: P/S, P/B Wt. : 3485 (curb) Magazine : SS (3/66)

Notes: Same car as featured in the previous test (Car Craft - 12/65) with same mods.

However, this article was geared towards making a competitive B/S Class winner. Milt

Schornack once again drove. The reason for the quikcer times in this test over the

previous test (see above) was that the engine was set up for B/S racing by Royal.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

66 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.33 posi 12.75 @ 110.09 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: P/S, P/B Wt : 3482 (curb) Magazine : PHR (2/66)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were M&H cheater slicks. This appears

to be the same car as in the previous two tests (above), but did not have the custom

"Gee-To" on the side of the body. Strange, as this test is from February 1966, which

was a few months after the first Car Craft test from December 1965. However, the

similarities are uncanny. The setup was exactly as described in the previous two

tests. The driver was again Milt Schornack. During this test, a change to 3.90 gears

generated 13.08 @ 107.27. Also, taller slicks were used with both the 3.90 gears and

the 4.33 gears, and the transmission was changed from a close ratio to a wide ratio

4-speed. The quickest time was the 12.75 listed with shorter slicks, 4.33 gears, and

a close ratio 4-speed.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

66 GTO Cpe 389 (335 hp) 4-speed, 3.08 non-posi 15.4 @ 92 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.8 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.8 sec, 0-100 : 19.2 sec.

Options: P/B, P/S Wt : 3620 (curb) 3950 (test) Magazine: CL (5/66)

Notes: Tires were stock 14x6 Firestone. IZE="2" FACE="Arial">

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

66 GTO Cvt. 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.55 posi 15.50 @ 93.16

mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.1 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.8 sec, 0-75 mph : 9.8 sec.

Options: P/B, P/S Wt : 3720 (curb) Magazine : MT (5/66)

Notes: Tires were stock 7.75-14. This 4-speed Tri-power convertible was tested

against a 66 GTO hardtop with a 4-barrel and 2-speed automatic trans. Tests were

conducted with 2 aboard. Severe tire spin hampered times.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

66 GTO 389 (335 hp) 2-speed, 3.23 non-posi 15.6 @ 90 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.0 sec, 0-60 mph: 7.5 sec, 0-75 mph : 10.8 sec

Options: P/B, P/S Wt : 3620 (curb) Magazine: MT (5/66)

Notes: Tires were stock 7.75-14. This 2-speed automatic GTO hardtop was tested

against a 66 GTO convertible equipped with a Tri-Power 389 and 4-speed trans (see

above). tests were conducted with 2 aboard.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

66 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 14.05 @ 99.66 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: None listed Wt : --------- Magazine: MT (7/66)

Notes: Tires were M&H slicks. This test was conducted to prove the benefits of the

new Ram Air package, consisting of a hotter cam, valve springs, and of course the Ram

Air tub over the multiple carbs. Two other 66 GTO's were tested at the same time. The

first was an identical 66 GTO to the one listed here, but had the Ram Air package

installed by Royal Pontiac. The third car was the familiar race-prepped Tiger Gold 66

GTO from Royal Pontiac, but now had "ROYAL" emblazoned on the doors instead of "Gee-

To" (see previous tests for more info). Milt Schornack drove all cars. No mention was

made as to whether the two GTO's had the "Bobcat" package, but most likely they did.

The identical equipped 66 GTO with the Ram Air package ran 13.91 @ 99.55 mph, only a

.14 second improvement over the non-Ram Air car. The race-prepped GTO ran 12.84 @

108.4, and then its' Ram Air package (cam, springs, and Ram Air tub) were removed

from the car and replaced with the standard non-Ram Air parts. The result was a 13.10

@ 106.38 mph.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 Firebird Cvt. 400 (325 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 14.03 @ 103.56 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: None listed Wt : -------- Magazine: SS (3/67)

Notes: Tires were stock F70-14. This was the first run of the new 67 Firebird 400,

and the editors were ecstatic. The car was merely tuned, and the runs were made with

air cleaner and exhaust intact. Coincidentally, Super Stock was also testing a new 67

GTO car the same day, which was equipped with Ram Air, 4-speed, and 4.33 gears. The

GTO had a best pass of 14.12 @ 100 mph. The editor mentioned that since the Firebird

was 250 lbs. lighter than the GTO, the difference in times was understandable.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 GTO 389 (360 hp) T-400, 3.90 posi 13.89 @ 102.01 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3490 (curb) 3840 (test) Magazine: HR (5/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Car had Ram Air. Tires were stock F70-14

Wide Ovals. This car was also tested without the Bobcat kit, and ran a 14.11 @ 101.23

mph.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 Firebird 400 (325 hp) 4 -speed, 3.36 posi 14.7 @ 98 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.9 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.5 sec, 0-100 mph : 15.5 sec

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3580 (curb) 3980 (test) Magazine: CL (8/67)

Notes: Tires were stock E70-14 Wide Ovals. Editor staes that running this car with

full test equipment on board, the 14.7 time generated in this test was second only to

Hemi powered cars and the 427 Vette.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 GP 428 (360 hp) T-400, 3.42 posi 16.20 @ 90.80 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 4.5 sec, 0-60 mph : 8.4 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, P/W Wt : 4160 Magazine : CR (9/67)

Notes: Tires were stock. Editors were disappointed the car did not have the optional

suspension and the HO engine, but otherwise loved the car.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 Firebird 400 (325 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 12.75 @ 110.88 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: None listed Wt : 3390 (curb) Magazine: CR (9/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Car had Ram Air. Tires were 8.50-14 M&H

cheater slicks. This was an article titled "Pontiac Performance Party", and was a 3

car test between the Ram Air Firebird, a Ram Air GTO, and a 2+2 (see next two tests

for GTO and 2+2 results). Drivers were Milt Schornack, Dave Warren, and John

Politzer, all Royal Pontiac people. Exhaust pipes disconnected at the manifolds.

Firebird had tremendous wheel hop, which limited launches to 3500 rpm, while the GTO

and 2+2 could come out at 5000 rpm. Oddly enough, the Firebird and 2+2 had hood

tachs, while the GTO did not.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 GTO 400 (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 12.91 @ 108.56 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: None listed Wt : 3500 (curb) Magazine : CR (9/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Car had Ram Air. Tires were 8.50-14 M&H

cheater slicks. See notes from previous Firebird test on this "Pontiac Performance

Party" article.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 2+2 421 HO (376 hp) 4-speed, 4.11 posi 13.37 @ 106.01 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: None listed Wt : 4080 (curb) Magazine: CR (9/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were 8.50 x 14 M&H cheater slicks. See

notes from previous Firebird test for details on this "Pontiac Performance Party"

article.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 GTO 400 (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 13.09 @ 106.5 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.0 sec, 0-60 mph : 4.9 sec, 0-75 mph : 6.6 sec.

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3445 (curb) Magazine: MT (1/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Car had Ram Air. Tires were 8.50 x 14 M&H

cheater slicks. Car was tested with Hurst headers (open). This test pitted two

identical Royal prepped 67 GTO's, one with a 4-speed trans, the other with a Turbo

400 automatic trans (see next test for results). The 0-30 mph, 0-60 mph, and 0-75 mph

times were with 2 aboard, the ¼ mile was with one aboard. With stock F70-14

Wide-Oval tires, this car ran 14.21 @ 102.97 mph. There was also a third 67 GTO in

attendance; a 4-speed 67 GTO Ram Air car without a Bobcat kit. They ran the non-

Bobcat 67 Ram Air GTO car with slicks against the Royal prepped 4-speed car, riding

on F70-14's. They claimed the prepped car still shut down the non-Bobcat car

every time. Although no time was given for the non-Bobcat GTO, it is safe to say it

probably ran in the low to mid 14's.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 GTO 400 (360 hp) T-400, 3.90 posi 13.36 @ 106 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.0 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.2 sec, 0-75 mph : 6.8 sec.

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3490 (curb) Magazine : MT (1/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Car had Ram Air. Tires were 8.50 x 14 M&H

cheater slicks. Car was tested with Hurst headers (open). This was the Turbo 400

equipped car (see previous test for more details). The 0-30 mph, 0-60 mph, and 0-75

mph times were with 2 aboard, the ¼ mile was with one aboard. With the stock F70-14

Wide-Oval tires, this car ran 14.09 @ 101 mph.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 GTO 400 (360 hp) T-400, 4.33 posi 14.5 @ 102 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.5 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.1 sec, 0-100 mph : 14.0 sec.

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3780 (curb) 4180 (test) Magazine : CL (10/67)

Notes: Tires were F70-14 Firestone. Car had Ram Air. There was an audible miss under

wide open throttle between the 1-2 shift, possibly due to worn valvesprings. The car

did not run well during stop and go, and overheated frequently. However, overall, the

testers loved the car. This particular article had excellent photos of the Ram Air

GTO.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 Firebird Cvt. 400 (325 hp) T-400, 3.08 posi 15.4 @ 92 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.5 sec, 0-60 mph : 7.5 sec, 0-75 mph : 11.2 sec.

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3855 (curb) Magazine : MT (3/67)

Notes: Tires were stock F70-14. Car was tested against a 67 Firebird convertible with

an OHC Sprint 6. One unusual option in this Firebird 400 was that it had a column

shift.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 Firebird 400 (325 hp) T-400, 3.90 posi 13.60 @ 104.4 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: None listed Wt : 3560 (curb) Magazine: MT (8/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Car had Ram Air. Tires were 7" slicks. The

Ram Air Firebirds were not available yet, so Royal Pontiac installed the new Ram Air

package for this test, which included the Ram Air cam, special valvesprings, Ram Air

tub, and of course, opening the scoops on the hood. With stock F70-14 tires, car ran

14.05 @ 102.85 mph. Poor weather during test, strong headwinds. Another pass was

attempted with the exhaust pipes disconnected from the manifolds, but ignition

problems arose. Milt Schornack claimed the car should be generating sub-13 second

times. This particular test also included an identically prepared 67 Firebird 400 Ram

Air 4-speed car, modified with the same Bobcat kit (see next test for results).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

67 Firebird 400 (325 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 13.05 @ 109.23 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: None listed Wt : 3460 (curb) Magazine : MT (8/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Car had Ram Air. Tires were 7" slicks. The

Ram Air Firebirds were not available yet, so Royal Pontiac installed the new Ram Air

package for this test, which included the Ram Air cam, special valvesprings, Ram Air

tub, and of course, opening the scoops on the hood. The 13.05 time was with the

exhaust pipes disconnected from the manifolds. With stock F70-14 tires, car ran 13.99

@ 105.01 mph. With slicks and closed pipes, car ran 13.24 @ 106.50 mph. Poor weather

during test, strong headwinds. Milt Schornack claimed the car generated sub-13 second

times the following week without the strong headwinds. This particular test also

included an identically prepared 67 Firebird 400 Ram Air Turbo 400 equipped car,

modified with the same Bobcat kit (see previous test for results).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 Firebird 400 (335 hp) T-400, 3.36 posi 15.4

@ 93 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.8 sec, 0-60 mph : 7.6 sec, 0-75 mph : 11.1 sec.

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3740 (curb) Magazine : MT (1/68)

Notes: Tires were stock F70-14. Part of a 6 car Pony car shootout in Motor Trend.

Oddly enough, this Firebird had "Royal" license plate frames, but the car was not

from Royal Pontiac in Royal Oak, Michigan, but from a dealership in California with

the same name.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO 400 (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.33 posi

14.45 @ 98.20 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.8 sec, 4.5 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.5 sec, 0-75 mph : 9.6 sec.

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3650 (curb) Magazine : MT (2/68)

Notes: Tested in the famous "Car of the Year" Motor Trend issue, the 14.45 time was

achieved using slicks. The editors first took this GTO to the dragstrip and ran @ 96

mph on street tires. The car was compared to an automatic transmission equipped GTO

(see next test).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO 400 (350 hp) T-400, 3.23 posi 15.93

@ 88.3 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.1 sec, 0-45 mph : 4.9 sec, 0-60 mph : 7.3 sec

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3707 (curb) Magazine : MT (2/68)

Notes: Tires were stock G77-14. Not much information on this car, other than a spec

sheet. These specs were used for comparison purposes vs. the Ram Air GTO in the

previous test.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO Cvt. 400 (360 hp) T-400, 3.23 posi 15.1

@ 90 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.1 sec, 0-45 mph : 4.9 sec, 0-60 mph : 7.3 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, HH Wt : 3707 (curb) Magazine : MT (12/67)

Notes: Part of an 8 car shootout. This car was equipped with the H.O. engine, and

oddly enough, wire wheel hubcaps.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO 400 (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi

13.02 @ 106.04 mph

Addtl times: 0-60 mph : 5.8 sec, 0-100 mph : 12.01, 50-70 mph : 2.8 sec.

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : -------- Magazine : CI (4/68)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Driver was Milt Schornack from Royal. The

time was obtained using cheater slicks. On stock F70-14's, the car ran 13.77 @ 104.8

mph. This was a RAII equipped GTO, but the factory 4.33 gears were pulled in favor of

3.90 gears BEFORE these times were recorded.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO 400 (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi

14.53 @ 99.7 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.0 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.6 sec, 0-100 mph : 14.6 sec.

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3755 (curb) 4135 (test) Magazine : CL (5/68)

Notes: Tires were stock G77-14 BF Goodrich.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO 400 (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.33 posi 12.93 @ 108.05 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: P/B, P/S, HH Wt : 3506 (ship) 3810 (test) Magazine: SS (11/67)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were M&H slicks. Car had Ram Air and

Doug's headers. The slicks were mounted on Hurst wheels. Milt Schornack supervised

the test, but did not drive. The headers were open for the test, and the entire

exhaust system was removed from the car, shaving additional weight. Car only had 118

miles on the odometer ansd was not broken in yet.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 Firebird 400 HO (335 hp) T-400, 3.55 posi 14.2 @ 100.3 mph

Addtl times: 0-40 mph : 2.7 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.5 sec, 0-100 mph : 14.1 sec

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3550 (curb) Magazine: CD (3/68)

Notes: Tires were stock F70-14 Firestone. Tested on a very cold day (43 degrees).

Test was a 6-car shootout between the Firebird 400 HO, Javelin SST 390, SS396 Camaro,

Mustang 2+2 GT (390), Cougar XR-7 (390), and a Barracuda Formula S (340). In the

mechanical and non-mechanical categories, the Firebird was the hands-down winner.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO 428 (390 hp) T-400, 3.55 posi 13.8 @ 104 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 1.6 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.2 sec, 0-100 mph : 12.9 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, HH Wt : 3784 (curb) 4111 (test) Magazine : CD (2/68)

Notes: Royal prepared (level 3). Tires were stock G77-14. Royal Pontiac also prepared

the 428 engine with level 2 mods. This was a car that could be ordered through Royal

Pontiac. Tested on a very cold day (38 degrees).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 Firebird 400 (330 hp) 4-speed, 4.11 posi 13.62 @ 105.88 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3351 (curb) 3510 (test) Magazine : HR (4/68)

Notes: Tires were Casler 7" cheater slicks. Hot Rod installed Mr. Gasket traction

bars to overcome severe wheel hop. Car had Ram Air. Milt Schornack suggested that the

line for the vacuum advance retard be disconnected. Also, the famous "Firebird

throttle-stop" be deactivated to allow full throttle. On the stock F70x14 tires, the

car ran 13.79 @ 106.38 mph.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO 400 (350 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 14.25 @ 99 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S, HH Wt : 3506 (curb) 3800 (test) Magazine : HR (2/68)

Notes: Tires were 7" Casler slicks. On stock G77-14 Uni-Royal tires, the car ran @

99.11. The car had Ram Air, but the 350 hp rating was shown in the specs. Car was

apparently hand polished to brilliant red luster. This particular issue of Hot Rod

made a major mistake on the front cover. Across the top of the page in big, bold

lettering it said, "GTO vs. Firebird: A Ram Air Pair of 400 Inchers!" Unfortunately,

the plans to test the Firebird fell through, and an apology was issued in the article

stating that they goofed.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 GTO 400 (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 13.02 @ 107.56 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: P/B, P/S Wt : 3650 (curb) Magazine: PHR (4/68)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were 7" cheater slicks. Tested against

a similar 68 Firebird 400 (see next test for results). Cars were driven by Sid Warren

and Milt Schornack. The car had a Schiefer clutch. Purpose of the test was to see how much

performance a Royal Bobcat package would add to the car. Tested on a very cold day.

On stock tires, the GTO ran 14.20 @ 102.50 mph before the Bobcat kit, and 13.85 @

106.13 after the kit.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 Firebird 400 (335 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 12.81 @ 109.76 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PB, P/S Wt : 3400 (curb) Magazine: PHR (4/68)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were 7" cheater slicks. Tested against

a similar 68 GTO (see previous test for results). Cars were driven by Sid Warren and

Milt Schornack. Tested on a very cold day. The Firebird ran with its' exhaust pipes

disconnected from the manifolds. The car had a Schiefer clutch. On street tires, the

Firebird ran 13.77 @ 106.76 mph.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

68 Firebird 428 T-400, 3.90 posi 12.55 @ 110 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.0 sec, 0-60 mph : 4.9 sec

Options: PB, P/S Wt : 3800 (curb) Magazine: PHR (9/68)

Notes: This was Myrtle Motors conversion car. Myrtle Motors was also in the business

of "tweaking" Pontiacs for customer enjoyment, just like Royal Pontiac. Although they

never garnered the attention Royal Pontiac did, Myrtle Motors built some very stout

cars. The mods performed by Myrtle Motors to this 428 powered Firebird were almost

identical to the famous Royal Bobcat kit (level 2). Car had Ram Air. On stock F70-14

tires, the car ran 13.90 with severe tire spin. The car had 428 emblems on the hood,

but for some odd reason, a 400 emblem on the trunk lid.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 GTO 400 (RAIV) 4-speed, 3.55 posi 14.23 @ 100.89 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S, P/W, HH Wt : --------- Magazine: SS (10/68)

Notes: This car was a prototype RAIV GTO, and carried the extravagant 4 inlet Ram Air

system that Pontiac dubbed "Ram Air IV" because it had 4 ways to get fresh air. The

baseplate looked similar to the regular production RAIV baseplate, except at the

front part of the pan, two enormous 4 inch holes were cut (the foam seal used was a

prototype as well, and surrounded these holes too) and two 4 inch ducts were routed

up through the core support to pull fresh air (excellent photo in article). The

system was dropped before production, but the name "Ram Air IV" stuck. The car was

apparently NOT Bobcatted, but the driver was Milt Schornack. Milt was somewhat

stunned as to why the performance was down, and after taking the GTO up and down the

track a few times at different speeds, he discovered someone had mistakely put 3.55

gears and a wide ratio 4-speed in the car. Milt claimed the car should have easily

been in the high 13's.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Judge 400 (RAIII) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 14.41 @ 99.55 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S, P/W Wt : 3513 (curb) Magazine: HR (12/68)

Notes: Tires were G78-14. This was the prototype 69 GTO Judge Coupe that was used in

the first magazine ads for the Judge. This particular issue of Hot Rod has a 3 page

foldout on the inside cover advertising this prototype Judge. While mechanically

identical to the production Judge, the prototype used a white stripe down the body

that ended just before the door handle, and a variation of "The Judge" logo appeared

just over the door handle.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Trans Am 400 (RAIV) T-400, 3.90 posi 14.10 @ 100.78 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3375 (approx.) 3720 (test) Magazine: HR (3/69)

Notes: Tires were F70-14 Polyglas. This was a prototype 69 Trans Am. Car was

Palladium Silver with no stripes. Car was also equipped with a fiberglass hood, which

never saw production. The magazine testers were extremely impressed with the Trans

Am, especially in the handling department.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Judge 400 (RAIII) 3-speed, 3.55 posi 13.65 @ 101.1 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PB, P/S Wt : ---------- Magazine: PHR (4/69)

Notes: Tires were Goodyear slicks. After testing this Judge, the editors were so

impressed that they decided to make this car "Project Judge", which became a 4-part

buildup over 4 issues (not consecutive). The car was strangley equipped with a 3-

speed manual and gears, quite ill-suited for dragstrip use. With the stock Polyglas

bias-ply tires, the car ran 14.05 @ 100.6 mph. The testers then bolted on the

Goodyear slicks, and the time improved to 13.95 @ 99.5 mph. The slicks were too tall

for the gear and transmission, hence the lower mph. They then installed Doug's

headers, an advanced curve kit, and re-jetted the Quadrajet. The 13.65 @ 101.1 time was

obtained with open headers and slicks.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Judge 400 (RAIII) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 12.86 @ 109.89 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PB, P/S Wt : ---------- Magazine : PHR (6/69)

Notes: Continued from previous test. This was Part 2 of "Project Judge". The rear

gear ratio was changed from 3.55 to 3.90. With open headers and slicks, the car then

ran 13.55 @ 105.88 mph. The next step was to replace the 3-speed manual transmission

with a 4-speed, and a Royal Bobcat kit (level 2) was installed. A Weber clutch was

added to handle the additional dragstrip runs. In this trim, the car ran 13.20's @

108 mph. Finally, stickier slicks were installed on 5-slot aluminum rims, and the

time dropped to 12.86 @ 109.89 mph.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Judge 400 (RAIII) 4-speed, 4.33 posi 12.62 @ 110.7 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PB, P/S Wt : ---------- Magazine : PHR (8/69)

Notes: Continued from previous test. This was Part 3 of "Project Judge". A Carter

electric fuel pump and Line-Loc were added, as well as air bags in the rear coils for

improved traction. With open headers and slicks, the Judge ran 12.70 @ 110.29 mph.

The next step was to replace the 3.90 gears with 4.33 gears, and slightly taller

slicks were used. This resulted in a 12.62 @ 110.70 mph time.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Judge 400 (RAIV) 4-speed, 4.33 posi 12.25 @ 113.92 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PB, P/S Wt : ---------- Magazine: PHR (12/69)

Notes: Continued from previous test. This was Part 4 of "Project Judge". As you can

see, the engine is now changed to a RAIV. Milt Schornack built a RAIV engine back at

the Royal Pontiac shop that included JE pistons, and the heads were carefully

prepped. By going to the RAIV engine, new headers were installed. Also, a flex fan

and new heavy duty clutch were installed. With open headers and slicks, "Project

Judge" ran 12.25 @ 113.92 mph. The editors stated that the car was still extremely

streetable.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 GTO 400 (350 hp) 4-speed, 3.55 posi

14.9 @ 98.3 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.0 sec, 0-45 mph : 4.8 sec, 0-60 mph : 7.2 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, HH Wt : 3672 (curb) Magazine : MT (1/69)

Notes: Tires were stock F70-14. All tests were conducted with 2 people aboard. Car

was not equipped with Ram Air. Test was part of a 6 car shootout including a Buick

GS400, SS396 Chevelle, Torino Cobra 428, 440 Charger R/T, and a 440 GTX.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 GTO 400 (RAIV) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 12.62 @ 109.52 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S, HH Wt : --------- Magazine: PHR - Engine Hop Ideas 1970

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were 8.00-8.50 x14 Goodyear cheater

slicks. The driver was Milt Schornack. This test involved a shootout between this 69

Royal Bobcat RAIV GTO and a Royal Bobcat 65 GTO Tri-power. The 69 GTO had a Schiefer

Rev-Lok pressure plate and clutch, Doug's Headers (2" primary, 3-1/2" collectors),

and was treated to a full Royal Pontiac prep, including cc'ing the heads. This was

the Crystal Turquiose 69 GTO with the special Royal Pontiac paint scheme (white

valence panel, hood stripe, rocker panels stripes, and trunk lid) that would

eventually be fitted with a RAV engine. The 12.62 time listed was with open headers

and cheater slicks. In street trim (closed pipes, street tires) the car ran 13.42 @

108.42 mph. Very cold day for testing, with stiff head winds.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Firebird 400 (RAIII) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 13.54 @ 107.02 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : ---------- Magazine: S&S (8/69)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were 7" cheater slicks. Royal Pontiac

sent this car with a 1968 Ram Air system, most likely because the 1969 system was a

bit complex and did not flow enough air. The car was Carousel Red. The road test

times were NOT quoted in this test, but the editors stated it ran mid to high 13's.

So where did the 13.54 shown above come from? In a October 1984 issue of High

Performance Pontiac, Joe Oldham wrote a lengthy article about the original road test

back in 1969. The photos shown were of the same car, same license plates, same

dragstrip. The timeslips read 13.54 @ 107.02 mph. The focus of the October 1984 HPP

article was what they did with the car AFTER the dragstrip. They were involved in

some wild street racing activities. I highly recommend tracking this issue of HPP

down. The article was called "Night Shift". Although Joe's recollection of the street

racing activities were fascinating, he mistakenly stated that the car was a RAIV car.

In his original article back in 1969, they made it quite clear that this was NOT a

RAIV car, but a 335 hp RAIII.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Firebird 350 HO 4-speed, 4.33 posi 12.59 @ 110.29 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: (see Notes) Wt : 3460 (curb) 3350 (after mods) Magazine : SS (3/69)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2 and beyond). Tires were 9.00/9.50x14 slicks.

This was a fully prepped Royal race car designed to compete in the F/S drag racing

class. The car was red with white Trans Am stripes (flat hood) and the lower rear

quarters were also white, blending into the white tail panel, and ROYAL Racing Team

in large lettering on the sides. Car had the twin hood tach nacelles, one housing a

hood tach, the other was for the Ram Air option on the 350 HO (shown in the 1969

Firebird brochure). Chassis was set up by Royal, and the 350 engine was built to NHRA

stock class specs (stock intake, carb, and cc'd heads). Car had Doug's headers,

Schiefer racing clutch, electric fuel pump, forged pistons, and a custom oil pan. The

power steering pump and power brakes were removed to shave weight. They then

proceeded to remove the radio and all the interior sound deadener, as well as the

rear seat and passenger seat. The radiator and battery were replaced with standard

duty units to cut weight. The heater was left in place as per NHRA stock class rules.

Test was conducted on a cold day (35 degrees) and the track was dusty. This was the

same car that soon received a RAV engine (see next test).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Firebird 400 (RAV) 4-speed, 4.88 posi 11.65 @ 121 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: (see Notes) Wt : 3400 (approx.) Magazine: Drag Racing (7/69)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2 and beyond). See previous test on 69 350 HO

Firebird for details on car. Tires were 8.9x15 slicks on Fenton wheels. Purpose of

test was to see how fast the RAV engine was. The mods performed in the previous test

(350 HO) are all intact, but with the RAV we include new Doug's headerst, Hurst

shifetr, Line-Loc, an aluminum Schiefer flywheel, and Lakewood traction bars. Oddly

enough, the car was now wearing the factory "400" style twin scooped hood with a hood

tach. Driver was Milt Schornack. Engine mods included a Crane cam, with which the car

went from 119 mph to 121 mph. Milt shifted the car 6700-6800 rpm. The RAV heads were

cc'd, but not touched otherwise. The engine was a tired "test" engine, was not

blueprinted, and needed new pistons. Milt said that with a fresh engine and a new

"Rock Crusher" trans, 11.30's at 125 mph would not be surprising if conditions were

right.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Trans Am 303 (RAV) T-400, 3.90 posi 16.37 @ 93.5 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 4.6 sec, 0-60 mph : 8.8 sec, 0-100 mph : 18.22 sec

Options: None listed Wt : 3980 (test) Magazine : MT (10/69)

Notes: This was a qucik test of the new 303 Ram Air V engine as installed in the 69

Trans Am. The estimated top speed was 135 mph @ 6300 rpm. The gear ratio was

inapproriate for the high winding little 303.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

69 Grand Prix 428 (370 hp) T-400, 3.23 posi 16.5 @ 86 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.6 sec, 0-60 mph : 9.5 sec, 0-75 mph : 14.0 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, A/C Wt : ---------- Magazine: MT (10/68)

Notes: Tires were G78-14. This particular Grand Prix had already been thrashed by the

Pontiac engineers, and a mention was made that the engine was "well-worn". Times were

also given for this car without A/C, and they were approximately 1 second quicker in

the 0-60 mph time.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 GTO 400 (RAIV) T-400, 3.23 posi 14.50 @ 97.76 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: None listed Wt : --------- Magazine : PHR (6/70)

Notes: Tires were G70-14 Uni Royals. Car was bright red, and was equipped with hood

pins. The 3.23 was totally inappropriate for the RAIV engine, and traction was very

poor with the stock tires.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 GTO 455 (360 hp) T-400, ------- 13.98 @ 101.88 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S, A/C Wt : -------- Magazine: HC (5/70)

Notes: Tires were G78-14's. The car had Ram Air and hood tach. The article was less than

flattering about the new 455 GTO. While the 13.98 time seems respectable, in this

same issue of the Hot Cars they also tested a 70 LS-6 Chevelle, 70 W-30 442, and a 70

Buick GS Stage 1. The GTO was the slowest of the bunch, but seemed to be the only car

equipped with A/C and a standard rear axle ratio (not listed, but assuming a 3.31

w/ac).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 GTO 455 (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.31 non-posi 15.0 @ 96.5 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.4 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.6 sec, 0-100 mph : 16.0 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, A/C, P/W, P/DL Wt : 4209 (curb) Magazine: CD (1/70)

Notes: Tires were G70-14 Firestone. Car was fully loaded, but oddly enough, a 4-speed

was ordered without posi.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 Judge 400 (RAIII) 4-speed, 3.55 posi 14.77 @ 94.42 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3780 (test) Magazine : RT (4/70)

Notes: Tires were G70-14. Car had hood tach and hood pins. The magazine testers were

disappointed in the fit and finish of the Endura bumper, and general mis-alignment of

the front panels, but overall liked the car.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 Grand Prix 455 (370 hp) T-400, 3.07 gears 15.5 @ 88 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 3.0 sec, 0-60 mph : 7.8 sec, 0-75 mph : 11.4 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, A/C Wt : 3885 (curb) Magazine: MT (11/69)

Notes: Tires were G78-14.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 Grand Prix 455 (370 hp) T-400, 3.23 posi 14.19 @ 102.99 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S, A/C, P/W, P/DL, P/seat Wt : 4400 (curb) Magazine: CR (9/70)

Notes: Tires were G78-14. Purpose of test was to see how this heavyweight would do at

the dragstrip with some tuning. In stock form, the car ran 15.25 @ 99 mph. A switch

to F70-14 tires, and the car went 14.93 @ 99 mph. Finally, mods to the Quadrajet

carb, an advance curve kit, and 4.10 gears were installed, resulting in a 14.19 @

102.99 mph pass.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 Trans Am 400 (RAIV) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 14.5 @ 99 mph

Addtl times: 0-60 mph : 6.5 sec

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : ---------- Magazine: MT (2/70)

Notes: Tires were F60-15. Tests were with 2 people aboard. Not much info on the

actual test, but a great deal of info on the new 1970 Firebirds.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 GTO 400 (RAIII) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 14.60 @ 99.55 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.5 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.0 sec, 0-100 mph : 14.7 sec

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3830 (curb) 4230 (test) Magazine : CL (4/70)

Notes: Tires were G70-14 Uni Royal. Car was tested against a 1970 GTO 455 (see next

test for results).

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

70 GTO 455 (360 hp) T-400, 3.55 posi 14.76 @ 95.94 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.9 sec, 0-60 mph : 6.6 sec, 0-100 mph : 16.2 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, A/C Wt : 4055 (curb) 4455 (test) Magazine: CL (4/70)

Notes: Tires were G70-14 Firestone. Car was tested against a 1970 GTO RAIII (see

previous test for results). Car had Ram Air.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

71 GT-37 400 (300 hp) 4-speed, 3.55 posi 14.40 @ 97.50 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S Wt : 3675 (test) Magazine : HR (6/71)

Notes: Tires were G70-14 BF Goodrich bias ply. The time above was with the air filter

removed. Car had a bench seat.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

73 GTO 455 (250 hp) T-400, 3.42 posi 14.70 @ 91 mph

Addtl times: 0-60 mph : 7.6 sec

Options: PDB, P/S, A/C Wt : 3800 (curb) Magazine : CR (8/73)

Notes: Tires were G60-15 Polyglas GT bias ply. Car had a bench seat, column shift,

towing package, air shocks, power sunroof, and "moon" hubcaps.

Yr Car Engine Drivetrain

Performance

74 Trans Am 455 (SD) T-400, 3.08 posi 14.25 @ 100.93 mph

Addtl times: None

Options: PDB, P/S, A/C, P/W Wt : 3762 (curb) 4010 (test) Magazine: SS (6/74)

Notes: Tires were GR70-15 Goodyear radials. The only modification was open hood scoop.

The car was tested on a very cold day (low 40's), which hampered traction. Magazine

testers were so impressed that they made this their next project car.

Thanks for reading! More tests to come…….

Check out Classical Pontiac!
Site hosted by Angelfire.com: Build your free website today!

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

…..

My dad made that intake manifold for Dick Jesse.

Started with an Oldsmobile unit.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the parts were made in the Chevrolet Die Room.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mike here with more on Royal Bobcat:

Muscle Cars You Should Know: ’69 Royal Bobcat Pontiac GTO Ram Air V

Owned by Bill Schultz.

Here it is at the inaugural MCACN show in 2009, in a display with other significant Royal Pontiac GTOs.

K

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike here, copy and paste these URLs to your Browser and view history, lots of Photos here and they work! The photos at the bottom are what you will find and lots more!















Thread with nothing but original pics.



NOTE: COPY THE URL TO YOUR BROWSER AND THESE PHOTOS WILL COME UP, MIKE TESTED

A FEW AND THEY WORK, HAVE FUN!










Thought I'd start a thread here consisting only of vintage Pontiac pics. Many may

have been posted before in another thread, but let's start a thread with nothing but

original pics.

Starting with the old days.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
SUSQ
07-15-2011, 11:13 PM
That's a bitchin' little dragster! Looks like it might be quite a challenge getting

in it with that rollbar?
StealthBird
07-16-2011, 12:01 AM
The late 50's...
old5.0
07-16-2011, 01:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By:

StealthBird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The late 50's... </div></div>

LOVE those pics. Seems like the 59's never get any love.
StealthBird
07-16-2011, 06:32 PM
1961 <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
StealthBird
07-17-2011, 04:05 PM
..
Brewster
07-19-2011, 01:16 PM
Wow, some great old pictures you posted for us to enjoy!
Thank You,
Brew
StealthBird
07-19-2011, 07:11 PM
1964! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif
StealthBird
07-19-2011, 07:14 PM
..
Tommy Nolen
07-20-2011, 04:45 AM
These are some old photos from my racing days back in the mid sixties. They were

taken at the old fairgrounds raceway in Richmond, Va. 1966.
Xplantdad
07-20-2011, 05:24 AM
Neat pics Tommy! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif
StealthBird
07-20-2011, 05:46 AM
1965...
m22mike
07-20-2011, 05:47 PM
Worth another look.. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif
Anderson of course became Knafel Pontiac

http://www.mcacn.com/gallery/McClurg/image0155.jpg
olredalert
07-21-2011, 01:10 AM
-----Love seeing any of these old cars that had anything to do with &quot;Akron

Arlen&quot;. Knew him back in 65-66 and sold him nuts and bolts. Great guy and way

ahead of his time......Bill S
StealthBird
07-21-2011, 08:07 PM
Some experimental engines:

1963 SOHC 421 - This was installed in engineer Malcolm McKellars 63 Grand Prix. Mac

just recently passed away. He was a camshaft guru, and designed some of the best hi-

perf camshafts of the whole Muscle car era...

The 1968 Brabham 303 SOHC, a joint project between the famous Brabham-Repco Formula 1

Grand Prix team and Pontiac. DeLorean loved the idea of making a &quot;Super

Firebird&quot; with an exotic engine, or with the help of racing team, similar to the

Ford/Shelby collaboration. The Brabbham 303 was abandoned when Pontiac engineers found

out they were getting more power from their RAV 303 project.

The 1963 DOHC 4-valve 389 with sequential fuel injection - not making production, it

was scrapped when the GM racing ban hit in Jan 1963, but this beast would have gone

into Grand Prix's, Bonnevilles, and Catalinas. When the 1964 GTO hit the streets, the

engine was deemed to expensive to install or make available in the GTO series, and

the project was scrapped.

Another 1963 SOHC 421, with rear mounted cam belts, and 3-valve heads.

Cool radical looking engines! Thanks!


The first pic is the prototype RAIV air cleaner as used on a 1969 GTO. This setup

used 4 air inlets, consisting of 2 hood scoops, and 2 hoses, and this was how they

came up with the name Ram Air IV. The setup was abandoned before production started,

but a 1969 GTO was road tested by a magazine with this setup, and Pontiac issued a

diagram showing the system worked.

The second pic is one of the coolest Pontiacs around. This was Jim Wangers Ram Air

Firebird, known as the Blackbird, which he had built to compete in the Woodward Ave

street wars. This car faced stiff competition from cars built at a well-known speed

shops, as well as factory-built engineering cars from Chrysler, Chevrolet,

Oldsmobile, and Ford. The Blackbird is now owned by Dr. Eric Schiffer, who is a

wealth of information about those Woodward Ave Street wars.

Second pic is Truman Fields 1968 Firebird RAII, which cleaned up on dragstrips back

in the 70's and 80's, and is still around today. Truman won the 1973 U.S. Nationals

Stock Eliminator title, then later went on to become 1982 and 1983 IHRA Stock

Eliminator Champion. After a retirement of sorts, Truman came back in 1993 and ran

the Pure Stocks, becoming the first Pure Stock car to break into the 11's.

I would love to have the wheels off of the Hard Times Firebird.....are they

Fenton's???


Great engine shots and info. Is there any more out there, especially of the fuel

injection? I would also like to know what has survived. A bunch of neat stuff was in

the works but the racing ban and emissions getting tighter (and redirecting

development attention) killed a bunch.


Pontiac built 3 SOHC 421ci engines in the early '60s. The photo I posted earlier was

the one engine that survived, and was presented to Chief Engine Engineer Malcolm

McKellar upon his retirement. McKellar had it placed into his personal 1963 Grand

Prix, and it's running to this day. McKellar said that during the testing, the SOHC

421 engines produced around 625 hp and were capable of turning 7,000 rpm.



What's really cool about this engine is that this isn't a tri-power setup on top, it

was an an experimental single six-barrel unit that Pontiac Engineering tested for the

1967 model year. But when GM pulled the plug on multiple carbs, this setup was

shelved.

Below is another view of the SOHC 421 I posted earlier, the one with the belt driven,

rear mounted cam drives. Check out the exotic fuel injection setup.

StealthBird, what were the differences between the late 50's Pontiac fuel injection

and the Chevrolet unit? Was the Pontiac Rochester sourced? Any websites that discuss

the Pontiac F.I. in any detail? It seems like all the discussion is about the Chevy

unit and the Pontiac gets lost in the shuffle. I know the F.I. pictured above isn't a

production unit, it just got me wondering'.

The Chevy and Pontiac setups were both made by Rochester Products, and were similar.

The main difference being in the manifold design, and the fuel-meter locations. The

Pontiac manifold had longer runners, giving a ram effect, and was stronger in the low

and mid-range areas. The Pontiac setup made a respectable 310 hp from 347 cubes, but

unfortunately pushed the heaviest car in Pontiac's lineup. A 57 Chieftain with the

tri-power was actually quicker than the 57 Bonneville.

All 630 of the 1957 Bonneville's were fuel injected, all convertibles, and all of them

were loaded up with every available factory option, which again made them the

heaviest of the Pontiacs.

The 57's typically sell for $120K-$200K now, one of the most expensive collector cars

out there.

This is 58 units, but the runners and fuel inlets were the same as in 57. Biggest

difference between the 57 Chevy F.I. and 57 Pontiac F.I. was the plenum, and runner

length. Pics are from an old post on the Corvette Forum.



I remember reading about his retirement, the engine gift and his '63. The single 6-

brl carb was a neat way to cheat the system. I wonder how much FI development

knowledge he had and whether he had any hardware.

All production Pontiac FI units shared the same basic design and some components as

units used for Chevrolet (Pass) and Corvette. Their main difference was the

&quot;Turkey Roaster&quot; sheet metal enclosure they were housed in on the Pontiacs.

All were/are Rochester units.

The 57 Pontiac plenums were made up from sheet-metal unlike the 58s which, as you can

see, are cast. Chevrolet paved the way but Pontiac wasn't far behind in all this early

(US) fuel injection stuff. The problem, as Stealth has said, was that Pontiac didn't

expand the program out to some of the lighter bodied models. It might not have

mattered though as almost all the Pontiacs in 57 weighed a bunch, and Chevrolet had

the Corvette as its P.R. machine as well as its H.P. machine. As well, G.M. was

already well into the cubic inch wars as an easy, cheap way to make their sleds go

faster, as was Ford and Chrysler.
All the 57 Bonnevilles were white with red or blue or black accents except for (I

think) two which were black. One had red trim and one had baby-blue trim. I can

guarantee the one with the B-B trim as a friend of mine and I hauled it out of

Chicago in original, forlorn condition in 1974. I haven't a clue where it is today but

it is surely worth a TON!.....Bill S


Correct on the '57 PMD FI. At the time, FI was a gamble and there was truly caution

in the GM groups as far as its performance (both mechanically and sales) and not

hurting any PR lines. The Corvette was a low production sports car that GM was

willing to gamble with as well as some special models in the GM Pass car line. -They

were probably under a bunch of pressure with the '57 Chevy to not give them a black

eye. The big story behind it all was that Rochester was working with all GM

groups and GM would have loved to put it across the board but some of the Cold/Hot

start and Hot Idle issues scared the others off until it was more refined. They

waited, towards the end of it all they were still not pleased and with emissions

tightening it died.



All 630 of the 1957 Bonneville's were fuel injected, all convertibles, and all of them

were loaded up with every available factory option, which again made them the

heaviest of the Pontiacs.

The 57's typically sell for $120K-$200K now, one of the most expensive collector cars

out there.


I recently inspected a Black LS6 Chevelle for a customer and there was one of these

in the owner's collection. NEAT car to say the least and I had never heard of them

prior to seeing it.

An odd thing about this first year Bonneville is that there's only one pair of

Bonneville emblems on the outside of the car, at the rear 1/4 panels. The front

fenders and trunk lid had huge &quot;Fuel Injection&quot; script emblems. Considering

the Bonneville was a brand new model, you would think Pontiac would want people to

know it's called Bonneville. But with all the publicity Chevrolet and Pontiac

received about their new fuel injection, just seeing the &quot;Fuel Injection&quot;

emblems were enough for the public to know this was the new Pontiac flagship luxury

performance car.

The 57 Bonneville is also of great historical significance, as it was the car that

brought the Pontiac Motor Division out of their stuffy image of the 40's and 50's

into the their new role as GM's high performance division. Bunkie Knudsen arrived at

Pontiac in 1956, and he immediately changed Pontiac's image. Using the newly revised

1955 Pontiac V8, he began pumping the parts bins full of high-perf equipment, from

dual quads to aluminum parts, from drag racing parts to NASCAR items, he quickly

transformed Pontiac into GM's high-perf division. For 1957, he brought out the fuel

injected Bonneville as a statement.

Keeping this in the theme of this thread (vintage pics), here's the 57 Bonneville at

the auto show.

The happy newlywed couple check out what's in the background.





If that's an original black Bonny and if the trim was always white then that would be

the other black Bonneville. Not the one we yanked out of Chicago as it was black/red,

and original paint. It's also possible that a few more black ones got out of the

factory than I have been told.....Bill S

Here's another rare one from the engine archives.

Pontiac was very experimental back in the early 60's. While the work of their

engineers were very advanced, Pontiac didn't have the engineering budget that

Chevrolet had. DeLorean and Estes contracted well known drag racers and stock car

builders to make super high perf parts for their Pontiac V8's, with the possibility

they could use those parts for production, or add them to the Pontiac high

performance parts catalog. Pontiac knew that once a part was in their catalog, that

part could be considered legal for use in NHRA and NASCAR competition. And if the

part(s) caught on, Pontiac could them to their production line.

Legendary NASCAR builder Smokey Yunick was under contract with Pontiac to develop

some super high perf parts. With Pontiacs already dominating the 1961-1962 NASCAR

season, Yunick turned his attention towards turbos. He came up with was a twin-turbo

setup for the 1962 Pontiac 389, and he tested the setup to the tune of 900 hp back in

1961. Pontiac then scheduled a twin turbo setup for the 1962 model year, but canceled

the project at the last minute. It was estimated the street version would have been

around 550 hp.

These manifolds are dated 06/13/1961.

Mickey Thompson was another legendary racer and engine builder under contract by

Pontiac. Mickey set the world speed record in his 4-engined Bonneville racer

(&quot;Challenger 1&quot back in the 50's, and he also was heavily involved with

Pontiac's drag racing program in the early 60's. In fact, Mickey received many of the

rare SD421 cars in 1962 and 1963, and wreaked havoc on the dragstrips across the

country.

He also developed some very interesting high-perf. parts for Pontiacs. His cross-ram

and 2x4 intakes were stuff of legend, but he also made some high-end parts for

Pontiacs. Before the 1964 Chrysler Race Hemi made its debut, and 2 years before the

1966 Street Hemi would hit the streets, Thompson built on Chrysler 1950's Hemi design

and built Pontiac Hemi heads for the 1961-1963 389-421 Pontiac engines. Along with

those heads, he built blower manifolds, and a host of other racing parts, even

aluminum blocks, for Pontiac. The M/T designed Hemi heads were 100 hp stronger than

factory Pontiac heads, and Thompson produced over 700 hp in race trim.

When GM's 'no-racing' mandate was passed down in 1963, Thompson went on to sell his

parts independently. A lot of M/T Hemi heads were sold, and many still exist today.

Here's my Uncle Terry, circa 1971. Behind him is his Red/Red 1970 GTO 455/4sp

convertible with A/C. It was a lightly used, welcome home present to himself upon

returning relatively intact from Vietnam, and he traded in his 1968 Coronet R/T that

remained in St. Paul MN during his tour. I don't know if you can see it in the

downsized photo, but it has &quot;455 cid&quot; callouts on the fender AND &quot;RAM

AIR IV&quot; callouts on the hood. Despite his cool rides, my uncle was not

particularly a gearhead, and the RAIV hood decals were added by the original owner or

dealer.

I was born in '69, and have fond memories of sitting on the console of this car,

looking at the Hurst T-handle shifter, and cruising with my uncle to the CLARK

station on Hwy 10 in Mounds View, filling up with gas and getting his KOOL

cigarettes. I also got him in a bit of trouble with my grandmother, who while

babysitting found me collecting grass clippings at the neighbors, putting them in a

plastic bag, and informing her that I was gathering it for my uncle. Apparently, he

had some grass in bags but 3 or 4 year old me worried he was running low......



That is the beauty of a story and very, very funny Are you still that literal?




Continuing with some 1968 pics:

1968 GTO at the track - note Ram Air pan on ground

1968 Pontiacs at the Auto Show, 68 GTO centerstage

1968 Myrtle Motors 428 Firebird

Great photo!

Here's a few old photos from the 1969 Detroit Auto Show...

Grant, those are GREAT pictures!! Are those yours, or were they found on the web?

Here's a couple more from 1969:

1st photo - 1969 Trans Am debut at the 1969 Chicago Auto Show. Note the 69 Bird on

the turntable in the background, that's the same yellow one from your photo.

2nd photo - 1969 Knafel Pontiac Golden Sabre GTO. Knafel sold these with RAV engines

and Hurst wheels. Mr. Knafel claimed he received a batch of 1969 GTO's with FACTORY

installed RAV engines, but this has never been proven. Knafel received a great number

of RAV crate motors.

3rd photo - 1969 Trans Am in a dealer showroom, this is from an original 1969 Pontiac

Newsletter.

4th photo - notice in the background of the 1969 Chicago Auto Show picture, there's a

sign that reads, &quot;To win jacket, drop ticket stub here.&quot; The jacket was a

Judge jacket.

5th photo - Vintage 1969 photo of a Pontiac salesman posing with their new 1969

Judge, all wearing their Judge jackets.

Those photos were emailed to me from a good friend of mine who knows an older

gentleman that worked for Pontiac and actually worked setting up for the different

shows back then. He has some really cool items that he saved from back then.

I have an original one of those Judge jacket order forms, I've thought about having

some quality copies made of it.

Thanks for posting the photos, those are great!

Awesome pictures Grant, they really are.

I have tons of vintage Oldsmobile and Buick photos too. We may have to start a thread

in the other section(s).

Some more from 1969:

1) Another shot of the yellow 1969 Firebird from the same Detroit Auto Show.

2 &amp; 3) Two photos of the Royal Racing Team's 1969 Firebird. Note that this was

not Royal Pontiac anymore, it was &quot;Leader Engineering&quot;. Leader Automotive

was owned by George DeLorean (John Z's brother). After Royal Pontiac decided to get

away from the high perf conversions business and focus on regular Pontiac sales,

Chief mechanic Milt Schornack left Royal Pontiac, and hooked up with Leader

Automotive. Milt was allowed to keep the Royal trademark though, as he was

responsible for the Royal Pontiac Racing Club. Ace Wilson Jr. of Royal Pontiac had no

interest in the Bobcat conversions after Jim Wangers left to work for George Hurst.

3) An original Judge jacket, still in the package.

More great photos! Absolutely, post those other vintage photos when you can... I

could look at this stuff all day!
Oh, and by the way, the photo you posted with the new Judge jacket just happens to be

from my same friend that I got the auto show photos from. That photo was from his

Ebay auction and that jacket also came from his same friend that worked for Pontiac.

Small world!
1) Can't remember who had these pics from the 1970 Chicago Auto Show (photo dated Feb

1970), but this shot of a 70 GTO Pontiac show car is interesting in that it's wearing

what appear to be early honeycomb wheels, which didn't come out until 1971.

2) Gene Ingle's 1969 Judge drag car

3 &amp; 4) Proud parents show off their children, and their Pontiacs.

5) This is the same 1969 Firebird as in the above photos, but this was when Royal

Pontiac was still involved in high-perf conversions. That's Milt Schornack rowing the

gears. This 350 H.O. Firebird was VERY well set up, and was the same car that later

ran a RAIV and a RAV. Schornack trailered the 350 H.O. Firebird 2500 miles to race at

the Winter Nationals in Pomona CA. He made one pass at an astonishing 12.32 at 113

mph. Apparently, that upset some people, most notably Dale Smith from the factory

Oldsmobile drag team, and he had the Royal Firebird banned.


Mike, these are great! That honeycomb wheel on the '70 appears to be a little

different than the production wheel. Maybe a prototype?

I really enjoy seeing these old photos of cars when they were new... especially the

ones in front of houses, in driveways, etc

Great stuff! Keep them coming.


Here's a scan of two old Polaroids that I got from the original owner of a '69 GP

428HO 4-speed that I had a few years ago. The gentleman told me that he raced early

60's 421 Pontiacs back in the day and collected a few trophies which were displayed

across the hood of the GP in these photos when the car was new...

Wow, Grant!!! Where did that GP go? Another non-SJ 428/4spd HO unearthed. There just

can't be many of these. Do you have a handle on any production figures?

That Honeycomb appears to be actual aluminum, not rubber faced. I think that would

definitely make it a prototype during the 1970 time period, wouldn't it? Bill S

Great pics again Grant!

This is what I was hoping the thread would turn out to be, a nice photo album of just

vintage Pontiac pics for all to enjoy. I thought it was a great idea for Charlie to

make separate forum sections for each manufacturer.
I'm also shrinking the size of many of these pics so they fit on the screen without

having to scroll to the right. Looks like the best size is around 90K.

1) Here's a great shot of a Judge doing the pacing duties at Elkhart Lake.

2) Check out this ad from the late 70's. Wow, Grant!!! Where did that GP go? Another

non-SJ 428/4spd HO unearthed. There just can't be many of these. Do you have a handle?

on any production figures?

That Honeycomb appears to be actual aluminum, not rubber faced. I think that would

definetly make it a prototype during the 1970 time period, wouldnt it?
Bill, I sold the car about three years ago to a friend in IL. Myself and another

friend bought the car off ebay in Jan of 2006. It was originally advertised as a 400

4-speed car. The seller was getting lots of questions about the car mainly because of

the factory chrome parts on the engine thinking it may be a 428. Well, not only did

it turns out to be a 428, it was a 428 HO! Of course, the bidding got more interesting

after that. I wanted to do a full restoration on the car, but ended up selling it.

Anyway, its in good hands.

Production figures are 116 total 428HO 4-speed GP's for '69. Of those, 94 had the

wide ratio 4-speed (M20) and 22 had the close ratio (M21) with the 3.90 gear only.

This car has a wide ratio 4-speed with 3.55 gear. I've yet to discover one of the

22 cars, but that would be the one I'd really like to have. I have a list of 13

documented cars so far that are still around with about a 50/50 split between J's and

SJ's. Oh, and if you ever run across a 428HO 3-speed manual car, its 1 of only 3

built with one of them confirmed to have been crushed.

That would make sense on the wheel... the honeycombs appear to be larger to me,

similar to the new aftermarket wheels that I've seen lately.

Great photos again, Mike! Yes, Charley did good! Hopefully he won't lock us out for

cluttering up this section
Love that RA IV Judge ad!
Grant, did you know Marvin Minnereck (sp?) from my area (suburbs of Chicago)? Marvin

had a silver 1969 Grand Prix 428 HO 4-speed, and I met him while sitting in the

staging lanes on Pontiac Drag Day. After talking to him for a while, I realized he

was also the same guy that used to have a beautiful 1965 2+2 ragtop 4-speed back in

the 1980's.

1) The 70 Grand Prix, sitting at the 1970 Chicago Auto Show.

2) The proud owner of a new 1972 Hurst SSJ.

3) New owner of &quot;The Humbler&quot;.
No, I've never heard the name before or of the car. I would love to know more about it!

More great photos!
Here is a picture of my dad in front of our 1970 Pontiac Catalina.



Great photo! Was that a camp site?

Wow, Grant!!! Where did that GP go? Another non-SJ 428/4spd HO unearthed. There just

can't be many of these. Do you have a handle on any production figures?

That Honeycomb appears to be actual aluminum, not rubber faced. I think that would

definitely make it a prototype during the 1970 time period, wouldn't it?

Bill, it was Andy and I that bought the car off Ebay. We went 50/50 on it and then I

bought it outright a couple of months later. Initially it was at Andy's place, but

that was probably several months before you were there.
I know Marvin well from when Classic Motors was located in Billy Jacobs building on

the N/W side of Joliet. The building backed up to the river. Marvin was and is a

great guy, and a true Pontiac nutcase. He was a salesman at Jacobs Chevrolet for

quite some time. You have only one thing wrong, his GP was 1970. I Know as I saw

it many times. I loved the car as it was an original leather car which is so rare

(silver/blk leather). I actually bought a set of black leather seats for a triple

black 69 SJ I had (bought out of Naperville) from Marvin. His 65 2+2 421/4-spd

convert was the nicest I have ever seen. I tried to buy it a couple of times, but

could never get the job done. Saw Marvin at the 1st MCACN and reminisced about much

of this drivel, and met his son who is carrying on the torch. Great, great family

Bill, thanks for the info! I couldn't recall whether Marvin's GP was 69 or 70. I

also remember he had a triple blue 66 (?) GTO. I bumped into him the day he

bought that Goat. It was sitting in the parking lot of our Portillo's, and I caught

him just as he was coming out of the car.

His 65 2+2 was quick, ran in the mid-low 13's if I recall.

Didn't Marvin and Bob A. own Classic Motors together? I recall they restored a 70 W-

30 442 that made a magazine, lost track of them after that.

Thought, I'd add another photo or two, with the Grand Prix theme:

1) 1970 Chicago Auto Show

2) 1972 Chicago Auto Show

Some salesmen items from Pontiac:

Marvin was never related to Classic Motors. He just used to stop by every now and

then, and Im not sure who Bob A would be. Marvins 2+2 did run as the motor was

twisted a bit (maybe more than a bit). I remember him telling me it had a McKeller

cam and it did have a lope to it Bill S.



1) Promotional photo for the Endura bumper basher commercial.

2) Little League player takes a shot at a 68 GTO bumper.

3) Endura Bumper kit sent to dealers, consisting of a baseball bat in a cardboard

tube. The label states, &quot;One Endura Bumper Kit&quot;.

4) New 1968 GTO in Verdoro Green.


Those auto show photos are so cool!
&quot;Endura Bumper Kit&quot; Great stuff! That sales promotional stuff is great too!

I collect a few pieces myself.


Ok, I had to find a couple here for Bill.

1) 1964 Grand Prix - note the 421 badges

2) Passionate Poncho III

3) Passionate Poncho III with Beswick

4) Larry Johnson's altered wheelbase

Couple of 1965 Royal Pontiac GTO's doing battle.
Grant!!! Where did that GP go? Another non-SJ 428/4spd HO unearthed. There just can't

be many of these. Do you have a handle on any production figures?

That Honeycomb appears to be actual aluminum, not rubber faced. I think that would

definitely make it a prototype during the 1970 time period, wouldn't it?
not sure what year it was, but I took these at the Woodward Dream Cruise &quot;pre-

Cruise&quot; night 3 years ago to the day:



I've actually seen this car in person, it was at the POCI/GTOAA convention in Dayton

Ohio 2009. It's a very sharp looking GP! It's a '70 SJ 455 4-speed with black leather

interior. Thanks for posting it!

Here's a few more photos of it from the convention...

The 2009 POCI/GTOAA Convention was the greatest Pontiac show there ever was, and a

once in a lifetime event, with over 1000 Pontiacs registered. The only downside was

that we had to return to Dayton a month AFTER the POCI/GTOAA for the Trans Am

Nationals!




I agree, that convention was the best... a Pontiac lover's dream! The assembly line

photos are great too! The red car looks a lot like the one Charley &amp; I had...

The 1963 Grand Prix X-400 show car. Pontiac built several X-400 cars over the

previous years, the 1963 version had a fiberglass hood with dual hood scoops, which

have a strange resemblance to the scoops used on the 1970 Buick GS years later. The

engine was a supercharged 421, using a 4-71 blower, and 4 Corvette side-draft carbs.

The exhaust system was built to allow the driver to control the exhaust gases, with

a 3-position bypass lever that allowed closed, partially open, and fully open

exhaust. The exhaust pipes exited at the rocker panel in front of the rear

wheelwells.

Some 65's...

1965's at the auto show...

My old Tri-power car was racing at Dragway 42 and then I brought it back to life.

Great car!!! Thanks for sharing

That '63 Gran Prix was sweet.

Anyone have pics of some '64 GTO's?

Those '65's are very nice, but the '64's have an understated mean look to them as

well.

This is the only pic i have of a 64. It was a mean car.


Don, that 65 is WAY cool! A rare post coupe too!

Mark, the 64 GTO's were back on page 1 of this thread, but I'll post some more....

Great, thanks.

Now '66? Another of my favorite years.

Mark, those are back on Page 2! But I have so many pics, I'll keep posting as long as

you guys like them.

1) From 1965, that's Doc Watson (later associated with Oldsmobile's) testing the new

1965 GTO. Doc was in tight with Pontiac in 1965, as Hurst Shifters were factory

installed in all GTO's.

2) Great photo of a 66 GTO launching. This was an early Ram Air car.

3) Royal Pontiac 66 GTO in full racing trim, taking out a 442 in the far lane.

4) Another photo of the Royal GTO, with Milt Schornack driving.

5) Rare reclining bucket seat option in a 66 GTO.

1) Tiger-striped 66 GTO with Hurst wheels, and a Miami beauty queen.

2) 1967 GTO on a wedding day.

3) The Monkeemobile on the 1967 show circuit.

4) 1967 Pontiacs at the auto show

5) 1966 GTO - baby on board If this &quot;Bill Yakkel&quot; ran at 42 then I saw it

run. I rarely missed a weekend there as it was only about 20 minutes from my dads

house. Very cool old Poncho......Bill S

He had the car from new untill his death. It was a documented tripower m21 car with

390's and transistorized ignition and metallic brakes.
That is one seriously cool old GTO. I can't seem to remember it at &quot;42&quot; but

if you saw the birthday announcements you can probably figure out that my memory isn't

what it once was. Wish I could pull it out of what's left of my brain as I'll bet it

was a ball to watch. Bill S.

Anyone have pics of some '64 GTO's?



http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/s...GTOFerrariWeb-

Large.jpg

Don, one of the things that struck me about your 65 GTO was that it had a similar

paint scheme to Jim &quot;Old Man&quot; Taylor's 64 GTO. Jim is the original owner of

his 64, and he still runs it today.



Not getting too far off the &quot;original photos&quot; theme, I just wanted to throw

this one in, as it relates to the super rare engines poasted a few pages ago.

This is an all aluminum 389. Aluminum block, heads, intake, water pump, exhaust

manifolds. Amazing how advanced, and how serious, Pontiac was in their 1962 racing

campaign!

Brakes were always a point of criticism with the GM Muscle cars. They had tremendous

acceleration, but couldn't stop worth a darn. Pontiac was thinking about improving

their brakes pretty early on for their new high-performance car, the GTO.

In the summer of 1963, this 1964 GTO was delivered to Delco-Moraine for testing of

disc brakes on GM intermediates (Skylark/Chevelle/Cutlass/Tempest), thus becoming the

first A-Body with disc brakes.

That picture confuses me as that looks like a 69-72 caliper and not the 1st design

large 4 piston ones used on the early cars. looks like a newer shot of a goat...Keep

the pictures coming as this and the day2 thread are my favorites

I forgot this picture earlier when we were talking about Judge jackets.

Not getting too far off the &quot;original photos&quot; theme, I just wanted to throw

this one in, as it relates to the super rare engines posted a few pages ago.

This is an all-aluminum 389. Aluminum block, heads, intake, water pump, exhaust

manifolds. Amazing how advanced, and how serious, Pontiac was in their 1962 racing

campaign!


Very cool engine, but let's hear more about the car it's living in.

A great &quot;Day 2&quot; picture, this was a Popular Hot Rodding test car, a 69

Judge Ram Air III. Doug's headers, some 5-slot aluminum rims, and a Weber clutch. The

multi-part article ended with the installation of a RAIV engine (pictured).
I found that aluminum engine back in 1964 at M/Ts shop. Finally was able to buy it and

build it many years later. It was in my 63 Tempest wagon when I sold it. Tom
Old Man Taylor

Tenney just told me about this site. I will have to do some digging to see if I have

any old pictures of my car. Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of it when I bought it, or

when I got married in it. I didn't own a camera. This one was taken a few weeks ago

when my granddaughter got married.

B/T/W, the blue and white one is not the one I purchased new. The original one is

aquamarine, as seen in the picture. I built the blue and white one so I wouldn't keep

breaking the original one.
Keith Seymore
Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of it when I bought it, or when I got married in it. I

didn't own a camera.



That's always been my regret, too - that we didn't take more pictures back then. But,

in our defense, it wasn't as easy then as it is now -

At any rate, here are a few from my growing up years:

Me, in my first car (...the red one...):



The Pontiac shown is a '63 Catalina; built as a Super Duty car, it was converted over

the counter to an HO configuration (Tri-power and hydraulic lifters) so that we could

run the &quot;higher&quot; classes (B/Stock, B/FX) while the Swiss Cheese cars

covered the others. It was built with the aluminum front package (hood, fenders,

bumper) and aluminum decklid. It also was one of the first 1963 cars to have the

Bobcat appearance package, with silver highlights on the grille filler panel, down

the side and the vertical surface of the trunk lid. Sadly, this is the only still

photo I have of this car.

Goin' racing' -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/63Covair.jpg

The '64 shown above was the first GTO in the twelves, at least here locally.


Our '64 on display at the Michigan State Fair, fall of 1964:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...GTO/img009.jpg

Typical Sunday afternoon:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../GTO/69GMC.jpg

Rain on raceday - Lapeer International Dragway, 1968:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...8GTOresize.jpg

Me, doing my first engine teardown (a '69 GMC straight six), while the GTO sleeps

behind me:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/000_3554.jpg

Goin' racing again:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/64LeMans.jpg

The '64 Lemans was a factory mule car, purchased from the GM Milford Proving Ground.

It came equipped with a 421 cubic inch engine (and close ratio 4 speed) and was

actually quicker than our '64 GTO race car.


Lastly, this is not a &quot;vintage&quot; shot, but it is a &quot;vintage

motif&quot;. Here's how the GTO looks today:

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...x/100_0325.jpg


1) 1964 Grand Prix - note the 421

badges...http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?

ubb=download&amp;Number=26718&amp;filename= 1964 Grand Prix - local drags - original

photo s.jpg</div></div>


Actually....that's a '63


A couple more photos of that Bobcat paint scheme for '63:


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img015.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img016.jpg

A couple promotional shots, taken here at the GM Tech Center in Warren:


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...mseymore/Grand

%20Prix/GrandPrixTechCenter1.jpg

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...0Prix/Pontiac-

Grand_Prix_1963_800x600_wal.jpg

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...mseymore/Grand

%20Prix/GrandPrixTechCenter2.jpg

I call her &quot;Marilyn&quot;...

I suppose I should think of a name for the lady, too....


Don't think I've seen this one yet:

Milt with George Delorean's car -

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...epontiacplumcc

1.jpg

Not a vintage photo, but speaking of jackets:

I found this at my mother's house the other day. I had been looking for it for quite

some time (but not in the right spot, apparently):

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...03Oct09025.jpg

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...03Oct09026.jpg

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...03Oct09028.jpg

Some of you might remember that Ubly Dragway was in the mainstream news a couple

years ago, as a result of this:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...D/100_6971.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...tanLongSD1.jpg

Super duty wagon, sitting in front of the service bay doors at Royal:

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...oyalWagon2.jpg

B/FX class final round, Indianapolis 1963.

Dad driving Pete Seaton's car (far lane) in place of usual driver Jim Cornell; Jim

Wangers in the Royal car.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...l/100_7577.jpg

Cool, Keith! Many will recognize that trick black Goat from MCACN 1.
Seems your '64 hauls more than the mail, OMT! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

Few more -



http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img095.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img092.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img091.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img089.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img088.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img087.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img086.jpg

Dave &amp; Ben Wenzel's Camaro in the far lane:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...oyalwenzel.jpg

Caption is self explanatory:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ompson2007.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img022.jpg

Not sure who this &quot;Milt Chernock&quot; guy is...



http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img025.jpg

Cool, Keith! Many will recognize that trick black Goat from MCACN 1.
Seems your '64 hauls more than the mail, OMT!


Thanks for hookin' us up, Tenney -


Welcome Jim &quot;Old Man&quot; Taylor! I wasn't aware that you didn't know about

this site. And I thought Keith checked it out now and then, else I would have sent

you an e-mail.

Keith, my mistake on the 63 GP photo, the file name said 64.

Here's a few more interesting ones.

1) Canadian 409 Poncho

2) Keith, you may be able to identify this one. Could this be Brutus, or Mr.

Unswitchable?


We've had some conversation on that one before, and it was not conclusive: I'd say

Brutus, because Mr. Unswitchable car used the production style front control arms

(Not a straight axle in the front).


Since I'm here, a couple more:

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...5723-500-0.jpg

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...wissCheese.jpg

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...oyalWagon1.jpg

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...Royalcover.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...Woodwardad.jpg

'64 GTO &quot;Flamme&quot; show car -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...scan0001-1.jpg

How I spent my summer vacation:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...9-Assembly.jpg

Pontiac-Oakland airport:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...iacairport.jpg

Here's a few of Arlen Vanke -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d001/Pont5.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d001/Pont4.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d001/Pont3.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d001/Pont2.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d001/Pont1.jpg

Vacationing out west -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...Hooverdam2.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...Hooverdam1.jpg

Promotional shot, again here at the GM Tech Center -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/Fountain.jpg

70 GTO brochure -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...esbrochure.jpg

Knafel cars:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/knafel63.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../Pontwagon.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d001/JESSE.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../DickJesse.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img034.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img033.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img032.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img031.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img028.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...yal/img029.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...uasco_1252.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...quasco_123.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../DickJesse.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...itchable65GTO6

-vi.jpg

I think I have mentioned this before but it is interesting how the rear axle or at least

The axel tubes are black but the backing plates are natural.


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...9-Assembly.jpg [/quote]

'66 GTO promotional shot - notice it has the wrong Rally I centercaps:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../66GTOgolf.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...2PeteEstes.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...mmeshowcar.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...3pontiacSS.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...wickhauler.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/GTOs1968.jpg

&quot;The Yard&quot; (the back lot) - Pontiac Assembly:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...y_Car20Lot.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...okingnorth.jpg

Ok - I'm teasing a little bit with that last one; that's actually downtown Pontiac

Michigan, looking north on Saginaw Street.

Steam powered Grand Prix; this car still exists and is on display at the GM Heritage

Center on occasion:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...mGrandPrix.jpg

This car has also been recovered and restored, and is also on display at the Heritage

Center:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...reTestgoat.jpg

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...itage%20Center

%2028Oct09/100_9041.jpg

A couple of &quot;mild customs&quot;, on display out front of Bob Longpre Pontiac -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...01_resized.jpg

Great pics Keith!

The 1968 GTO was a classic, and from what I understood in Jim Wangers book, the ad

was only used for one month before it was pulled for &quot;promoting street

racing&quot;.

The original photo was retouched, the vinyl top was removed, a pole was moved a tad

to get it off the front bumper, and a passenger was added. What's weird is that in

the retouched photo, it doesn't appear as if anyone is driving! But in reality, the

driver is hunched over the steering wheel, looking to the left, waiting for...a

street race.
Speaking of the Heritage Center, here is the Motor Trend &quot;Car of the Year&quot;

award for the original &quot;Wide Track&quot; design:

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/...itage%20Center

%2028Oct09/100_9150.jpg

Original magazine ad for the 1966 GTO, shown here wearing non-production 8-lug wheels. In

response to the media criticism about high-perf cars not being to stop, Pontiac had

plans to offer 8-lug wheels on GTO's. But high costs, along with the fact that disc

brakes were on the way, killed the proposal, but not before this ad appeared in

dozens of magazines.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...9-Assembly.jpg [/quote]


This is a really cool photo, notice the blackout on the tail pipe, the red body color

overspray on the underside of the body, color of the leaf springs, backing plates,

how dirty the new rear chrome bumper appears to be, etc.

Are these GM assembly line photos available on the web anywhere?


Jake (and all), I'll start a thread of assembly line photos, and maybe between Keith

an I, we can clear out our libraries. "ubbcode-body">He had the car from new untill

his death. It was a documented tripower m21 car with 390's and transistorized

ignition and metallic brakes.

Just noticed the car does not have the wood grain on the IP cluster. We are starting

to see some documented '65 GTOs that were built that way (three or so).

Also digging' the redundant tach, and under dash mounted gages - like these:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...O/100_2076.jpg

Those have been in that same spot for 47 years or so (our car was built without the

tach, even though it was ordered with it)
I'll start a thread of assembly line photos, and maybe between Keith an I, we can

clear out our libraries.

LOL - I think I may have gotten all my vintage Pontiac assembly photos (and videos)

from you....


Scored this beauty new from Mr. Wangers. He repo'd it on his 85th. Always wondered

why it was monochromatic w/milked windows - turns out it was used in the '66 big car

TV campaign ...


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...9-Assembly.jpg

This is a really cool photo, notice the blackout on the tail pipe, the red body color

overspray on the underside of the body, color of the leaf springs, backing plates,

how dirty the new rear chrome bumper appears to be, etc.

Are these GM assembly line photos available on the web anywhere?

Jake


[/quote]




Funny that is not a Firebird in front of it....

Here's one of the 1964 Fremont plant pics. Notice the Olds in front, the Buick having

the body lowered, and a Pontiac chassis up next.

Yep - last year I was building Cadillac DTS, Buick Lucerne and Chevy Volts all down

the same line.


Another 1964 Fremont shot.
I have a picture of a 65 GTO in front of my father in laws service station in 67 or

68, real cool pic from a slide he found just a few years ago!

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...s6/leelee5.jpg

1969 Firebird at the dragstrip back in the day. Hubcaps pulled.

1969 GTO - Triple Black ragtop, with hideaways. I would love to find this car now.

1969 RAIV Firebird coming out of the hole, left front is skimming the pavement.
1) Believed to be the only black 72 Trans Am ever made, this car is currently being

restored.

2) Brand new 1973 SD-455, with original owner.

3) The original show car that used a heavy metalflake black, with gold accents. This

was based off a 1973 proposal, influenced by the John Player Special Formula 1 car.

This paint scheme went into production in 1976, and later people knew it as the

Bandit paint scheme, thanks to the 1977 movie. The photo shown is a 1974 version, but

the car was built as a 1973 SD-455. As the years went by, Pontiac kept updating it

with pieces for the current model year, even installing a wraparound rear window for

the 1975 show circuit. Note the gold chrome tailpipes! In 1976, Pontiac used black

chrome for the tailpipe splitters on the production Special Edition black/gold cars.

4) Factory photo of a rare, red interior 71 Trans Am. Not many were built this way.

There was also a 1969 Trans Am built with a red interior, and it recently went

through auction.

Mike I remember that pic of the 71 from years ago but its really a 70 T/A. I think

pontiac doctored the photo for the press. Note the Lowback bucket seats in it. I

never heard of a 71 with red interior.Your right there are a few 69's and 70's

running around that have been sold. The 72 Black car is awesome.
1) Believed to be the only black 72 Trans Am ever made, this car is currently being

restored.

2) Brand new 1973 SD-455, with original owner.

3) The original show car that used a heavy metalflake black, with gold accents. This

was based off a 1973 proposal, influenced by the John Player Special Formula 1 car.

This paint scheme went into production in 1976, and later people knew it as the

Bandit paint scheme, thanks to the 1977 movie. The photo shown is a 1974 version, but

the car was built as a 1973 SD-455. As the years went by, Pontiac kept updating it

with pieces for the current model year, even installing a wraparound rear window for

the 1975 show circuit. Note the gold chrome tailpipes! In 1976, Pontiac used black

chrome for the tailpipe splitters on the production Special Edition black/gold cars.

4) Factory photo of a rare, red interior 71 Trans Am. Not many were built this way.

There was also a 1969 Trans Am built with a red interior, and it recently went

through auction.

Mike - the guy that worked in the Pontiac Studio and designed the black/gold cars -

Paul Deeson - is still living and is a member of the Wide trackers chapter.

He also designed the back window on the '63 Grand Prix, the wheel trim for the '63 8

lug wheel, the red line tire, the GTO emblem, has several patents on the GMC

motorhome, etc.

You should get ahold of him for a formal interview - he is still sharp as a tack and

is a blast to be around.


I could be wrong.... but.... That black '72 went through Ebay a couple of years ago.

A guy over on PY owns that SD. That picture was taken a few miles from where I used

to live.

Don, yes, that actually IS a 70! Typical of a manufacturer to add plates, or change a

few items, for publicity photos. There's a lot of them! I should have tagged that as

a 70 used for 71 publicity photos.

I'm actually in the process of putting together a webpage about factory promo photo

errors.
Keith, thanks for the heads up. BTW, did you get my message about your 1963 Drag

Racing video is back on YouTube?

If anyone can help me, I am looking for Pictures or newpaper ads,clipings or anything

from, PETERSON MOTOR CO. Storm Lake Iowa.If you have anything
Keith, thanks for the heads up. BTW, did you get my message about your 1963 Drag

Racing video is back on YouTube?



Yes - thank you; although I forgot to follow up. I'll do that shortly.


I wanted to keep this thread rolling...

1) Anyone remember &quot;Tons A Fun&quot;? This wagon with the T41 Endura schnoz was

a fan favorite for many many years, and always lifted that left front on launch...

2) Very rare 72 GTO post coupe.

3) Fantastic photo of the men behind the 1970 GTO (courtesy HPP). On the right is

William Mitchell, Vice President in charge of styling, and next to him is James

McDonald, the General Manager of Pontiac Motor Division. The man standing just over

The roof line (in the gray suit) is Bill Porter, Chief Designer.
Tenney just told me about this site. I will have to do some digging to see if I have

any old pictures of my car. Unfortunately I don't have any of it when I got it, or

when I got married in it. I didn't own a camera. This one was taken a few weeks ago

when my granddaughter got married.

B/T/W, the blue and white one is not the one I purchased new. The original one is

aquamarine, as seen in the picture. I built the blue and white one so I wouldn't keep

breaking the original one.
OMT,
I see that the Corporal is happy because he got married or because he wanted you to

go thru the gears or BOTH!!


Great pictures! I love this stuff.

http://101.imagebam.com/download/Kng...3/SS-H_GTO.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/e9N...5793/NED54.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/9zb...95/ESTA222.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/5bs...00/ESTA223.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/gicfTEHRGTDa-q-

qHCCC2w/54646/546459498/0img34620copy1-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/3ro.../0img459202822

920copy1-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/LPmGszYBRsqAbF3vbd-

Ofw/54554/545530668/bill_truby_collection-%20%28172%29.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/tZ2.../bill_truby_co

llection-%20%28171%29.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/7K8.../bill_truby_co

llection-%20%28455%29.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/zyA09ABq7rPtVnVuSO-

lxQ/54554/545531211/bill_truby_collection-%20%28463%29.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/9SJ.../bill_truby_co

llection-%20%28583%29.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/UScPeV-

Af1WahtpF_saJfw/54554/545531218/bill_truby_collection-%20%28692%29.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/_UC...219/img041-vi-

1.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/7Qz...5531221/img070

-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/cvw...223/img165-vi-

1.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/uVy...5531222/img106

-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/Xi5.../img217-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/uYC.../img252-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/Jnd...859/img308-vi-

2.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/S0b...5531863/img321

-vi-2.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/cvw...223/img165-vi-

1.jpg

Am I seeing this right?

Is that a 64 A body with an 8 lug aluminum wheel on the front?


http://101.imagebam.com/download/cvw...223/img165-vi-

1.jpg

Am I seeing this right?

Is that a 64 A body with an 8 lug aluminum wheel on the front?


http://101.imagebam.com/download/QEr...757/img345-vi-

1.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/qDb...6328761/img530

-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/lNH...765/img572-vi-

2.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/rcF...6328762/img545

-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/iKy...766/img574-vi-

1.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/D29...6328767/img578

-vi-2.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/IOd...028/img825-vi-

1.jpg http://101.imagebam.com/download/Ssm...6330025/img664

-vi.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/-v2zbTnG_VHnhVaIFgC-

7Q/54554/545530669/bill_truby_collection-%20%28188%29.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/8sj.../bill_truby_co

llection-%20%28473%29.jpg

http://101.imagebam.com/download/UBB.../155883468.jpg


http://101.imagebam.com/download/UBB.../155883468.jpg



Jim: Thanks Roger, you're correct, my nose hairs do need a little tuning up. good

thing we stopped to validate to your observation.
Roger: You're welcome Jim, good thing we had the car waxed too..

Hood paint (reflection) is awesome -- I Q if it is assembly line norm ...
Here's the car in color. Not sure why they wouldn't have equipped this one with the

new-for-1967 Rally II Wheels, but it sure looked sharp anyway. It also had a column

shift automatic trans. Prepped and primped through engineering, it made the rounds as

a press fleet car. The car still exists today.


http://102.imagebam.com/download/jlD.../155881916.jpg

From Getty Images:

1968 NHRA Winternationals - Pomona. Linda Vaughn, Miss Hurst Golden Shifter, rides on

the back of the Hurst Pontiac GTO and waves to appreciative drag racing spectators.

http://102.imagebam.com/download/BNj.../163090492.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/faj.../163091466.jpg

1968 NHRA Winternationals - Pomona. Linda Vaughn, Miss Hurst Golden Shifter, poses

with Hurst's Jack Duffy, Vice President of Public Relations.

http://102.imagebam.com/download/Jwb.../163091483.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/f6Y.../155881789.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/GrG.../155881821.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/Gj9.../155881822.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/PFv.../155881823.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/xNC.../155881710.jpg

From Getty Images:

1968 Motor Trend 500 - Riverside - NASCAR. Miss Motor Trend, Mary Lou Schmidt poses

with the 1968 Motor Trend Car of the Year the Pontiac GTO.

http://102.imagebam.com/download/GV2.../163091629.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/-3t.../155880372.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/ggR.../155880376.jpg

From Getty Images:

1966 NHRA Tulsa World Championship Finals Drags. With Ace Wilson's Pontiac Gee-TO

Tiger mascot behind the wheel this high-performance 1966 GTO makes an exhibition run

for the spectators at the NHRA World Finals.

http://102.imagebam.com/download/7TQ.../163092537.jpg


1967 NHRA Nationals Drag Race - Indianapolis. Miss Hurst Golden Shifter, Linda

Vaughn smiles from her perch on the back of the Hurst Pontiac Bonneville while Woody

Gilmore and Bill Jenkins of the Car Craft All-Star Drag Racing Team sit atop the rear

seat.

http://102.imagebam.com/download/iDA.../155881876.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/bJ6.../163091799.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/ABL.../155881875.jpg

http://102.imagebam.com/download/DKd.../155881879.jpg




http://102.imagebam.com/download/DKd.../155881879.jpg



https://image.ibb.co/de9uFQ/img464_vi_1.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/c9vWUk/img1045_vi.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jP4GUk/img825_vi_1.jpg https://image.ibb.co/eHyMvQ/img981_vi.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/mxR8aQ/img875_vi.jpg https://image.ibb.co/nOLLN5/img1035_vi.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/egdoaQ/img895_vi_1.jpg https://image.ibb.co/h218aQ/img894_vi.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dbQuPv/img1089_vi.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dcViHF/img1087_vi_1.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/emA5Wa/img1036_vi.jpg https://image.ibb.co/m54tHF/img1097_vi.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cQHri6/041970_19001.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/crLoVm/Brutus_6...tionals001.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hV4twR/Brutus_F...ionals0012.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/nasMGR/Don_Gay_...tionals001.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dEtWi6/Arnie_Be...tionals001.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/nzMHO6/Beswick_...tionals001.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/c1NfbR/050068_1a001.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hjwHO6/040168_1001.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/eNZtwR/062170_14.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/h6C2qm/07_G.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dALBi6/43_G.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/e9NJVm/63_G.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/m2sri6/60pont1.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/d9ZtwR/58_G.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cnUtwR/bestwick62pontiac_SS.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/fjtgi6/George_D...pontiac_SS.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/djHkAm/Harold_R...pontiac_SS.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gNsJVm/img345_KSTOCK.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/d8KyVm/don_gay_01.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/fEF3fm/the_blue_twister.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bJ7wY6/scan0100.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hfAWO6/Ia_FS_19...001vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/iVWubR/ity_Ia_F...001vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ebmhVm/City_Ia_...001vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dhWGqm/inals_da...edovi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ep0jAm/1969_Pon...002vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bK0nwR/ntsmeet_...001vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bXjcVm/C_R_P_19...001vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/m3UBqm/CRP1969_...001vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hj87wR/ints_Mee..._HSvi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jRWhVm/ity_Drag..._01vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/je5HVm/Points_M...002vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/nbn9bR/Points_M...HSAvi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bRb5i6/Speedway_park_1.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/j4Eo5m/larry_johnson.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bZfT5m/Bob_Toyer_In_The_Pits.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cYvBhb/comanche.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kuHfaw/ill_lega..._nationals.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/eFnDvw/mimi_gto.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bRb5i6/Speedway_park_1.jpg

Trapp Motors was in New Westminster, BC, just outside Vancouver, Syndicate Scuderia

was Jack Williams who campaigned for some pretty cool cars in the 60's. Pretty good

engine buider!



Thanks for the history. I always enjoy hearing it.


https://image.ibb.co/nR9h7b/lowe_easley.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ep0jAm/1969_Pon...002vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bK0nwR/ntsmeet_...001vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bXjcVm/C_R_P_19...001vi_vi_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/m3UBqm/CRP1969_...001vi_vi_b.jpg



After being raced in Kansas in the 70s The 1970 black RAIV judge " BIG IRON "was

purchased and brought to Rochester New York there it was raced in the 70s and 80s and

then about 10 years ago it was purchased out-of-state and restored now it's in a

collection somewhere

Thanks for the history. I always enjoy hearing it.


https://image.ibb.co/bWvYDG/miss_hur...ard_likenesses .jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jXXu3G/SN77166.jpg



You're welcome , thanks for posting these pictures , there great !

https://image.ibb.co/jXXu3G/SN77166.jpg

Judging from the removed diff cover and brake drums I'd venture to say Rock Running

is not having a very good day.


What's up with the slick white outfits, knowing you're going to be wrenching.
Glad to see this guy has his slicks under the rockers in case those Mickey mouse jack

stands/jack take a walk. Not sure if the front tires are chalked, or raised.



I don't know about the outfit but I do agree with the slicks. Placing the tires

underneath the car (even if only jacking up the back of the car) has been my modus

operandi for years. The extra insurance never hurts.






I dunno. A gear change because of different track conditions perhaps? Btw, did ya

notice this is a T-37 model?


https://image.ibb.co/bRb5i6/Speedway_park_1.jpg

I tried to buy that yellow '69 ra4 Stephen's Firebird about 17 years ago. Stayed in

touch with the owner for quite a while. I like this '67 white f-bird.



Too bad you weren't successful. I always liked their race cars.

https://image.ibb.co/icCofw/Dover_Drag_Strip_26.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cscbYG/1972_Summernationals_14.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jfnM0w/1972_Summernationals_15.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hYeZLw/1972_Summernationals_24.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/fm4C7b/Indy1972_21.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gmmBYG/old_timer.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/buVG0w/dynamic_automotive.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gmyrYG/fosby_s.jpg

I dunno. A gear change because of different track conditions perhaps?
Pete

Changing a ring and pinion at the track in these cars is no fun, regardless of the

motivation...


Btw, did ya notice this is a T-37 model?

Pete

Yes - he's quite famous for that -


Anyone see this car run back in the day? I did. Awesome body-twisting torque.

https://image.ibb.co/n9Et06/image216.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/g0Ut06/image217.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kwWvDR/image167.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bL4wnm/Arlen_Vanke4.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gLgvDR/myrtle_m...7_firebird.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kmwLDR/swisscheesepontiac.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ioa0f6/989.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hBdstR/1010.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hirCtR/1048.jpg

My father, then my mother, used to own a car like this, 370 cu. in. 2-bbl. engine,

white with green insert (or whatever the body relief, aka rocket ship, is called).

This is the very first car this (then) 15-year-old ever power-braked and did a

burnout with--more than once--unbeknownst to my parents. Gas station attendants

nine times out of ten couldn't find the gas filler neck. Could you? Lol.

https://image.ibb.co/ho8stR/leo_kannon_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kr9OYR/poor_man_s_tiger.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dciBL6/jackshawvi.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dPeMnm/rockys_1.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/keVGL6/scan0005.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ipyPa6/big_john_mason_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gtjK8R/chieftain_02.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cv54a6/chieftain.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/mniCTR/chieftain_03.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/naLsTR/chieftain_04.jpg

Wow! Another full size vert. And what a trophy...gal??!!:naughty::naughty::naughty:

Wow! Another full size vert. And what a trophy

More like a Playboy Bunny.


Non-Endura bumper GTO. Not too common.

https://image.ibb.co/nE9qk6/stephen_pontiac_00_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/eNZO56/stephen_pontiac_03.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/di2Ak6/stephen_pontiac_02_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cAPqk6/stephen_pontiac_04_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/fsfkJR/stephen_pontiac.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kE54yR/wade_o_oldies_143_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cnD2k6/tin_indian_02.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/fEt9V6/Bruce_walton.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/h9cW7w/donald_goldman0007_png.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jSx0Zb/Don_Gay_...eturn_Road.jpg

I don't know about you, but I think these full-size Ponchos were and still are cool.

https://image.ibb.co/nyJ19b/honest_injun.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/nDLkPb/Dover_Drag_Strip_26.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/fSo2qR/alan_mandella_01.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hOKmH6/alan_mandella_02.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jC6Yx6/alan_mandella_03.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/e4ELc6/alan_mandella_04.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/mYdXPm/Bud_Lias_57_Poncho_001.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/naPHqR/john_thropp_01.jpg

Here come Arnie Beswick's Judge! I believe it had a Ram Air V engine back in the day.

https://image.ibb.co/mJSsPm/the_judge.png

https://image.ibb.co/bPRKLR/brigham_gill_pontiac_01.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/b5tAS6/big_red_01.jpg

"Hey, hey, we're the Monkees..."

https://image.ibb.co/nvRaum/bj20_m.jpg

https://s26.postimg.org/go7orjgyx/ehrtjhertjh.jpg

(https://postimg.org/image/hdqh3whid/)

https://s26.postimg.org/go7orjgyx/ehrtjhertjh.jpg

(https://postimg.org/image/hdqh3whid/)

Wow! Cool!

https://image.ibb.co/dzExQR/towne1.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/hwSfn6/163095910.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gBw6S6/163095263.jpg

SEPTEMBER 15, 1966: GTO Tiger TV Advertising. Behind the scenes photos of a film

shoot using a live Tiger to sell the 1966 Pontiac GeeTO Tiger.

https://image.ibb.co/fLxufR/163093907.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/n7a2Zm/163093906.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cUQQn6/163093905.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/n6bFn6/163093741.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/c2CXZm/163093742.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gfZPfR/163093743.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cD1gS6/163093744.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gaAKEm/163093745.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/bU2o76/163093746.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cCOBS6/163093747.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/esvQn6/163093748.jpg

The original Miss Hurst, Pat Flannery.

https://image.ibb.co/mPyd76/163093336.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jEbvLR/163092493.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/c99nZm/163092724.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ewOWum/163092498.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ghBjEm/163092208.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/h3Crum/163092664.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/g2ERS6/163092665.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jtmvLR/163092666.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gp7PEm/163092667.jpg

Hey, hey, we're The Monkees...

https://image.ibb.co/iOASZm/163092299.jpg
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.










Thanks for posting...66 is my favorite year, but I do like the 67 updated grill.
I bet the handler lost sleep worrying if that tiger would get in the engine bay.



My pleasure. Same here. To me the styling of the 1967 grille is much better looking

than the '66 version and conversely the 1966 back end and tail light assembly better

looking than the 1967's.

https://myrod.com/wp-content/uploads...967-GTO-09.jpg

http://www.rmrestoration.com/jens_19...6_gto_rear.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/nNzEx6/img1208.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/m8EEx6/img464.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/c4rGAR/img461.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ffUQ4m/img1118.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/fmxsH6/leader_automotive.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/b44bC6/v1316459408_2.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/nvOmC6/v1321727645.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/b6SA5R/v1321727510.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kObCkR/v1298671567.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kGBbem/v1308336290.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/b8ngfR/v1306107959.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/mMNxNG/stephen_pontiac_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/cD1gS6/163093744.jpg

I used this one for my book, plus the Hurst Bonne one or another shot from the same

pass.



https://image.ibb.co/ngH5wb/v1408713200.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/kZC0gb/v1304099884.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/d9DO1b/v1304099882.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/jFmRBb/mean_streak_b.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/miapEw/gold_digger_GTO_02_02.jpg

My Fathers Chieftain Drag car back in the day..

https://image.ibb.co/h0uEnR/garber_pontiac_01.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ca3UMm/garber_pontiac_02.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/gEOku6/gold_digger_GTO.jpg

My Fathers Chieftain Drag car back in the day..

Check out the carburetor stacks! My dad used to own a green/white arrow 4-dr.

version of this car. It was stolen from our driveway sometime very early Monday

morning (circa 4-5:00 AM) in June 1969.
https://image.ibb.co/f8tPnR/mystery_toy.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2-Hn5RUAAANI0z.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/f9Nt1m/myrtle_m...7_firebird.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/h98SSR/limelighter.jpg
v Bulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2018, v Bulletin Solutions Inc.







In 1957, American automakers shook hands on a “gentlemen’s agreement” to end

factory support of racing. That timing sucked for Bunkie Knudsen, who had been given

the assignment just a year earlier to “fix Pontiac or kill it.” The crux of his fix-

it plan was to take Pontiac racing, so as to radically transform the division’s

spinster-librarian image into one young baby-boomers would lust after. Knudsen had

already assigned a team of elite engineers to his new Super Duty Group, and tasked

them with designing factory authorized parts and packages to ensure Pontiacs

dominated NASCAR and NHRA racing. He blatantly ignored the ban.

Knudsen’s proposed image makeover was news and attracted car guys to work with the

brand. One of those car guys was a sales promotion manager at Plymouth named Jim

Wangers, who jumped ship in early 1958 to join Pontiac’s ad agency, MacManus, John &

Adams. By then, the division was already enjoying some racing success, and Wangers

wasted no time touting said glory in enthusiast magazines. But even as the

dramatically styled Wide-Track ’59 models established themselves as the cars to beat

on any track, these Sunday wins weren’t translating to big Monday sales of the Super

Duty performance parts.

Wangers designed an ad showcasing these performance parts, but when young enthusiasts

arrived at dealers they encountered clueless salespeople who knew only how to sell

dull, sturdy cars to old people. So Wangers developed a plan: Take a training show on

the road to teach the sales, service, and parts folks about the profit potential in

this new Super Duty hardware. He presented his plan to Pontiac brass, but sales

manager Frank Bridge shot it down. After he returned to the MJ&A offices, however,

Knudsen called and asked Wangers to try his idea on a local guinea pig. Detroit’s

biggest Pontiac dealer asked for time to consider the idea, but Wangers found an

eager participant in 33-year-old playboy Asa “Ace” Wilson, the black-sheep scion of a

prominent dairy-farming family, who owned Royal Pontiac in suburban Royal Oak.

Wangers’ guinea pig was enlisted in
September 1959. Sales, service, and parts personnel were indoctrinated in the Super

Duty performance catalog of speed parts. They learned the fine art of factory-

ordering cars for optimum performance by selecting Pontiac’s eight-lug aluminum

wheel/brake-drum setup for lighter weight and better brake cooling; choosing Tri-

Power or dual-quad engines for top performance; and electing certain passive options,

like writing “delete insulation” in a certain place on the order form, to lighten a

car by 90 pounds. To get the word out that Royal was the place to order and tune your

performance Pontiac, the team went racing.




Royal started out mildly tuning demonstrator models, which often ran so well at the

track that they were sold on the spot. Then, a 1959 Catalina two-door hardtop was

properly set up and emblazoned with dealership signage. This 345-hp 389 Tri-Power

stocker took top honors in the S/S class at the NHRA Daytona Winter nationals and

reached an unofficial 151 mph on the beach. But by then, the true Super Duty drag

package was available, so the team switched over to a 1960 Catalina mid-season. Jim

Wangers took the wheel himself (he had been honing his skills in late-night street

racing with the High End Club since moving to Detroit) and won the NHRA Nationals on

his home track, Detroit Dragway, that September.

Back in the Royal’s service department, the mechanics had progressed beyond simply

bolting factory parts onto customer cars. Frank Rediker experimented with tuning

tweaks of his own, and before long he developed a Royal Bobcat engine-tuning package

that included alterations to the spark advance curve (replacing the distributor’s

centrifugal advance return springs), disconnecting the vacuum advance, tweaking the

dwell of the ignition points, and installing higher-performing spark plugs. The

intake manifold gaskets were replaced with ones that blocked the heat-riser passages

(Cooling the intake charge boosted power by 4 percent, though the automatic choke no

longer worked), and the hydraulic lifters were adjusted to prevent them from pumping

up at high rpm. Finally, new carburetor jets enriched the mixture, largely

compensating for the lack of an automatic choke. The cost? “Much less than the

disappointment of running second,” proclaimed Royal’s brochure. Translation: $120

installed. Or for $200, they’d do the above plus mill the cylinder heads, install

extra-thin cylinder-head gaskets, and fine-tune the car for ultimate performance.

Both packages included discrete Royal Bobcat badges to put the world on notice, and

other appearance packages were available. The team even devised a “cheater” tire. By

having the Goodyear retread shop cut the curing process short, the compound ended up

stickier.







By 1961, Royal’s “hot chiefs” business was booming, but things really heated up for

1962 when the Super Duty team offered its first full-on factory racing specials.

These fire-breathers had a top big-block engine good for 460-500 hp, cast iron or

aluminum (drag-racing only) headers, special heavy-duty suspension, reinforced frame,

4:10:1 or 4:88:1 limited-slip differential and — best of all — aluminum front-end

sheetmetal and bumper parts that dramatically reduced weight. Dealers offered

Plexiglas windows, a functional hood scoop, and interior- delete options. The option

price: $1334 plus $234 for the mandatory heavy-duty four-speed transmission.

Naturally, Royal Pontiac campaigned such a car, racking up more wins than any other

car bearing the Royal livery. Weighing in at just over 3600 pounds and running a

4:30:1 axle, Wangers drove this beast to a 12.38-second, 116.23-mph best run at

Detroit Dragway.

But dealerships make money selling cars that can be driven on the road, and that

Super Duty was good for quarter-mile-ing only. So, Wangers proposed an upgraded Royal

Bobcat package for 1962. As a July 1962 Car Life Road test described it, “The aim was

to provide the performance-minded with something that had a character of its own,

much of the distinction of the Pontiac GP, yet could be delivered at something under

$4000.” In terms of appearance, the package included masking off and rattle-can-

painting a coordinating color — usually silver, gold, or white — in the body cove

running aft of the door, in a stripe following the upper side-window opening, and in

the cove below the trunk lid. The eight-lug wheels were also accented and JC Whitney

spinners were bolted to their center caps. Royal Bobcat badges were affixed to the

C-pillars, and, to finish it off, the letters spelling P-O-N-T-I-A-C above the rear

bumper were rearranged, the holes formerly mounting the T were filled, and a couple

of Bs from a Bonneville were added to spell B-O-B C-A-T. This appearance package costs

$75 by itself, but more often it was backed up by one of the performance packages,

which generally started with a Catalina Sport Coupe powered by a dual-exhaust Tri-

Power or dual-quad engine and manual transmission with heavy-duty clutch, limited-

slip diff, aluminum wheels, plus a heavy-duty suspension, battery, and cooling

system. By this time, Royal had added a few new tricks, including advancing the

camshaft four degrees and the distributor’s static advance from 6 to 14 or 16

degrees.

After reading of the success Royal’s Super Duty Bobcat was enjoying, and having been

smitten with the sleek styling of the ’62 Catalina, Dennis Koss headed to Royal Oak

to order a Bobcat of his own in the summer of 1962. Sad to say, the factory had

stopped taking orders for 1962s, and no dealer stocked cars with the requisite go-

fast gear from which to build a Bobcat. So Dennis bought a 1963 Grand Prix and later

a ’66 GTO — both upgraded to Royal Bobcat specifications for optimum Woodward

cruising — but he always preferred the styling of the 1962 Catalina. Fast-forward to

2002, when a gorgeous, partially restored example from Georgia became available.

Dennis and wife Mary bought it, treated it to it a rotisserie restoration in Belmar

Red, and showed the car for several years. Dennis often thought about giving the

Catalina a latter-day Bobcat treatment, but those JC Whitney spinners were absolute

unobtainable. Then one day, when he was showing the car at metro Detroit’s Meadow

Brook Concours D'Elegance, ex-Royal employee Ken Conrad ambled up and opined that

Dennis’ Cat would make a perfect Bobcat, admitting that he had a set of the lost

spinners squirreled away. That was the catalyst Dennis needed! He enlisted the aid of

Pontiac expert Scott Tiemann of Supercar Specialties, armed him with that Car Life

article detailing all the changes to the car, and embarked on a plan to do in 2007

what might’ve cost just $2950 in options and Royal tuning back in 1962. Bronze

casting and chroming just the four little spinners from the pitted donor parts cost a

significant portion of that amount, but the result is stunning, and the 40-plus

awards the car has won make it worth every penny. Koss never worries about parking

next to another one — he’s heard of only one other original ’62 Royal Bobcat.

I slide onto the driver’s throne, which feels a bit like an air-suspended big-rig

chair, and twist the key. The starter labors against 11.5:1 compression, but after a

wuh-wuh or two, the dual quads allow the still warm engine to light easily, then it

settles into a frenetic 1200-rpm idle. The strong diff-lock prompts some mild

squealing when turning sharply, but the manual 5.8-turn steering turns easily as I

maneuver out of the parking lot. Once out on Woodward Avenue, I notice there’s about

50 degrees of free play on-center. I’m pleased when I launch without snapping our

heads, as the Car Life author “never did get the hang of the heavy-duty clutch.” He

also carped about the Pontiac shifter, recommending the Hurst setup instead — which

Dennis’ car employs. The shifter’s action is delightfully mechanical, and the short

4.10:1 axle and close-ratio Muncie Rock-Crusher box demand copious rowing. The manual

brakes take advance planning, and they’re pulling slightly to the right, which is fun

to correct with this on-center free play.

Dennis romps the loud pedal as hard as he dares, burning 91-octane pump gas (he runs

104-octane Turbo Blue when he plans to keep his foot in it), and the whitewall

BFGoodrich Silvertown bias-plies shriek as we rocket forward. Car Life praised both

the power and handling of its 389 Tri-Power Bobcat test car. “It's acceleration made

every road feel steeply downhill, yet it remains utterly tractable at all times. The

overall handling was of a high order, the ride a fine compromise between comfort and

security.” The writer noted that its strong understeering tendency could be tamed

with judicious choreography of the helm and throttle: “And drift, the car did, gently

and smoothly, never causing any alarm.”

The Royal guinea pig had proven Wangers’ concept, as performance equipment accounted

for up to 15 percent of overall sales. Yes, ham-fisted drag racers sometimes broke

things that had to be covered by warranty; but the net was positive, and soon other

dealers got in on the action. Pontiac’s image was transformed.

This article originally appeared in the Fall 2012 issue of Motor Trend Classic.

SPECIFICATIONS
Engine 468.8-cu-in/7682cc OHV V-8 2×4-bbl Carter 3433 & 3435S carburetors

Power and torque (SAE gross, est) 500 hp @ 5600 rpm, 520 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm

Drivetrain 4-speed manual RWD

Suspension front: control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar; rear: live axle, coil

springs

Dimensions L: 211.6 in, W: 78.6 in, H: 55.9 in

Weight 4070 lb

Performance 0-60 mph: 5.4 sec, quarter mile: 13.9 sec @ 107 mph (Motor Trend, May

1962, Stock Pontiac Catalina with 405-hp/
425-lb-ft 421-cu-in dual-quad engine and 4.30:1 axle)

Price when new $6053 (if equipped as a 421 Bobcat)

ASK THE MAN WHO OWNS ONE
Dennis Koss studied advertising design, starting out as a commercial artist and

progressing to art director and eventually printer’s rep and creative/technical

liaison specializing in dealer brochure printing.

WHY I LIKE IT: “It’s the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. It’s just the car I wanted

in 1962 but couldn’t get, and it just kind of completes my life to have the things

I’ve wanted.”

WHY IT’S COLLECTIBLE: This model was the cheapest, lightest big Pontiac made that

year, which made them popular with racers on a budget. Most were not preserved.

Ironically, ultra-rare Super Duty aluminum cars are easier to find.

RESTORING/MAINTAINING: The few things that wear out or break are widely available in

the aftermarket, but starting a full-blown restoration of this car today would be a

daunting task, costing $125,000-$150,000.

BEWARE: The T10 transmission fitted to Super Dutys from the factory are fragile when

subjected to repeated drag racing. Similarly, the Tri-Y exhaust headers were prone to

warping and distortion over prolonged heavy use.

EXPECT TO PAY: Concours-ready, $125,000; solid driver, $90,500; tired runner, $27,500

JOIN THE CLUB: Pontiac Oakland Club International, Royal Pontiac Club of America

OUR TAKE
THEN: “The Bobcat demonstrates good handling qualities to go with its more obvious

wheel-spinning capabilities. It’s a delectable package for the serious driver. One of

our test crew is sitting in a corner right now figuring his finances.” —

Unattributed, Car Life, July 1962

NOW: The GTO has hogged the spotlight of Pontiac performance, but the Royal Pontiac

and its fire-breathing, road-hugging Bobcats deserve a lot of credit for postponing

Pontiac’s demise by 54 years.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mikes Reply;
I found this Information while going through Hesster1977 Posts URL's

Posted by dennismonckton Kenny G’s 1969 Trans Am Fact & Fiction Page http://www.classicalpontiac.com/members/2/4.html

(Updated 12/09/06) Once being the owner of a 1969 Trans Am, and hearing lots of un-truths about the car, I thought on my last page I would add a FACTS & FICTION column about these rare cars. If you have any questions concerning these cars, feel free to e-mail me and I will try to help you out. (I will add more as I have time and more items come to mind).

FACT: : The Trans Am option included the following as standard equipment:
RA III engine (includes upper and lower RA pans, cast iron long branch exhaust manifolds)
3 speed HD manual transmission
3.55:1 Saft-T-Track 10 bolt differential
1.0″ front sway bar
Chrome valve covers and oil filler cap
Power front disc brakes
Special, functional, dual scooped hood (steel) with removable scoop inserts (fiberglass)
Front fender mounted functional air extractors (fiberglass)
Rear wing pedestals mount spoiler (fiberglass)
Front Spoiler (plastic)
HD shocks
HD springs
Special Tyrol Blue striped Cameo White paint (over hood, roof & deck lid, including tail lamp panel)
Power steering (with HD coolant line)
Quick ratio steering box (2.5 turns lock to lock)
“TRANS AM” identification decals on front fenders and rear spoiler
Blacked out grills (egg crate section only)
Simulated wood steering wheel (some later cars built after 9/69came with the padded Formula wheel with the one year only “wings down” Firebird cap.

FACT: The ’69 Trans Am was introduced to the press on December 8th, 1968 at Riverside Raceway in Riverside, CA. One of the cars given to the press to test was the pre production T/A that was painted Pallidium Silver (no stripes). Look closely at the pictures of the silver T/A and you will notice the hood and air extractors have very sharp, hard lines, more in line with the original design sketches. The March 1969 issue of Hot Rod Magazine stated the hood on this silver car was fiberglass. Note: The silver T/A was also a RA IV car. (source for the above date was Jim Wangers‘ book Glory Days)

FACT: Pontiac made a total of 697 ’69 Trans Ams (coupes and convertibles)

FACT: 8 of those were convertibles, 689 were coupes. (As a side note that really has nothing to do with this, there was also a ’69 Firebird convertible used on the television program “I Dream Of Genie” that had what appeared to be a variation of the ’69 T/A hood, side air extractors mounted on the quarter panels and a T/A style rear spoiler. The car was bright green. I don’t believe this to be a real T/A but found it interesting that PMD would send out a Firebird mocked up similar to a T/A for a TV show. Maybe they didn’t. Maybe it was customized elsewhere.).

FACT: All 8 convertibles were RA III cars.

FACT: Of the 8 convertibles, 4 were automatics, and 4 were manuals transmission cars. (Side Note: It has been documented that of the 8 convertible Trans Ams made, 7 are known to exist, most of those in good condition. The 8th is still a mystery. While I have read that the 8th has been located many different times, that seems to just be a rumor at this point. There was a blurb in Pontiac Enthusiast Magazine several years ago that they believed they had found this 8th convertible T/A in Western Canada and that they’d have more info at a later date. However, I have never heard any more about that. So until the 8th shows up in pictures somewhere and is proved documented to be the 8th, I would assume the location of the 8th is still unknown.) Added by Stuart: this information is old, the eighth T/A convertible has been found and restored.

FICTION: The 8 convertible T/As were built only for GM executives and not sold to the general public. (This statement is completely untrue. There is no reason that anyone could not order a convertible T/A. From listening to discussions with people such as John Sawruck (A Pontiac Engineer), “Higher Ups” at GM received no special treatments when it came to having special cars built for them).

FACT: Trans Ams were built at two different assembly plants: Norwood, Ohio (N) and Van Nuys, California (L) (coded L for Los Angeles). The number of Trans Ams built by each assembly plant and block code are as follows:

NORWOOD:
WQ: 506 (14 3-speeds, 492 4-speeds, including 4 convertibles)
YW: 117 ( including 4 convertibles)
WH: 45
XN: 9
VAN NUYS:
WQ: 14 (1 3-speed, 13 4-speeds)
YW: 5
WH: 1
(information from the book “Pontiac Muscle Car Performance, 1955-1979, by Pete McCarthy)

FACT: The original design for the Trans Am was actually proposed by the famous auto customizer, Gene Winfield. Working with artist Harry B. Bradley, they approached Pontiac in the fall of 1967 with sketches (I hope to have these sketches posted here soon). Since he consulted for the model company AMT, Winnfield knew 18 months ahead of time what the 1969 Firebirds would look like. He and Bradley proposed the hood, scoops, air extractors and deck lid spoiler that pretty much ended up on the Trans Am (other than a few minor alterations). Winfield called his car the “Can Am” (is this where Pontiac later got the name Can Am from?) and his proposed color scheme was chartreuse and gold instead of white and blue. All of the items Winfield and Bradley proposed were bolt-on and functional. (Info from the book The Fabulous Firebird by Michael Lamm)

FACT: Like the ’64 – ’65 & ’72 – ’74 GTOs, The Trans Am was just a option for 1969 on the Firebird line. So, even though a car may check out to be a real ’69 Trans Am, there will be nothing in the VIN number to separate it from a basic Firebird, nor will the title say Trans Am, it will simply be listed as Firebird. This is correct.

FICTION: There is no way to be sure if car is really a factory T/A or just a clone.

(While the best way to tell if a T/A is a real T/A or not is to send the VIN # to Pontiac Historical Services for verification, there is a few quick things to look at if you’re in a hurry to make a verification. The easiest is to check the firewall data plate for a rear spoiler code, usually “D80” or a variation of that code (D80 is a spoiler code for many GM cars, not just the T/A). Since the ’69 T/A was the only first generation Firebird to leave the factory with a rear spoiler, it will also be the only Firebird to receive a rear spoiler code. You will never see a “D80” code on a non ‘69 T/A. You should also look for the paint code to be 50-50 (in most cases; see note below). If the plate has a paint code for say red paint, this is a good tip-off that the car is not a real T/A).

NOTE: Keep in mind though 50-50 is upper and lower paint codes and there were a few T/As built with vinyl tops so you might get a code that is not 50-50. A convertible Trans Am would also not be coded 50-50 because the upper code would be the top color. If you need help to determine if a car is a real T/A or not, please email me and I’ll be happy to help you out. you can email me at firstyearta@yahoo.com

FICTION: You could order a ’69 T/A in blue with white stripes (’69 T/As were ALL white with blue stripes). (SIDE NOTE: ‘69 Trans Ams were painted Cameo White. In many places I have seen the ‘69 T/A as being referred to as Polar While. Polar White isonly correct for the 1970 Trans Am. Cameo White is more of an antique white as opposed to the much brighter shade that Polar White is. Cameo white is code 50 and will interchange with PPG code 2058).

FACT: The upper section of the rear tail lamp panel was painted the same color blue as the stripes were on all ’69 Trans Ams (sometimes the stripes will look a different color, this is due to how the light hits the metallic in the blue paint. A perfect example of this can be seen on the picture I have posted at the bottom of the next page, page 5). (SIDE NOTE: I have been provided with information from a factory Service Bulletin # 546321 sheet 2, page 35w-2.2 dated 2/24/69 that the correct color for the stripes on 1969 Trans Ams is Tyrol Blue, code. 867-98755 or Fisher wa-3680 code (NOTE: this is not a 1969 color but rather a 1967 color). This information was provided by Classical Pontiac Member 59, Tboy in Q&A post #274473. In the past I have stated that 1970 Lucern Blue was a decent match for the stripes (though maybe a shade too dark). I still believe this to be true (there was even a caption in an old issue of Muscle Car Cassics magazine on documenting a ’69 T/A that stated the correct color for the stripes was Lucern Blue), however it appears that there is now documented proof as to what the ‘69 color was really called.

FICTION: Some ‘69 TAs came with red T/A decals (not so, only the PRE-PRODUCTION car used in the magazine ads has red decals. This is a myth supported by the Book “Pontiac Trans-Am 1969-1973 photofacts, in the captioned photo at the bottom of page 22).

FICTION: All ’69 T/As came standard with Rally II wheels (Rally II wheels were an option on the T/A as they were on all ’69 Firebirds. However, almost every ’69 T/A was ordered with them. They were an option and not part of the T/A package).

FACT: A column shift automatic could be ordered on a ’69 T/A (as odd as this seems to me, and why any one would want one I don’t know, it was possible as I almost bought a ‘69 Trans Am optioned this way. The car looks funny with no console I think).

FICTION: ’69 T/As came from the factory with rear sway bars (another one of those rumors you read that are not true).

FACT: The ’69 T/A did come with a larger than normal front sway bar, measuring 1 inch.

FACT: Even though the T/A is a 400 engine car, ’69 T/As did not receive the 400 grill trim.

FACT: Nor did they receive the “400” deck lid emblem or the “FIREBIRD” front fender emblems.

FICTION: The wood steering wheel was the only steering wheel for the ’69 T/A. (In September of ’69, very late in production, the formula wheel became available as an option. The wheel carried the one year only horn cap with the first generation style ‘wings down’ bird in the center. Had production not ran late that year, creating so called 1969 1/2 cars, the Formula wheel would have debuted on the second generation Trans Am. I have added a picture of the very rare one year only “wings down” cap that came on the late ’69 Trans Ams. You can find a link to this picture on page 6. If you have any problem viewing the picture, email me and I can email the picture to you.I have also now been provided with copies of the auctual document that explain the introduction of the Formula steering wheel to the ’69 Trans Am. This can be viewed on-line but you will need an Adobe Reader to view it. The document can be viewed HERE

(SIDE NOTE: While it was probably just a fluke, my ’69 T/A came out of the factory with just the blue plastic wheel. And I have also had contact with two other ‘69 T/A owners who’s T/As also came this way. Has anyone else ever seen a ’69 T/A with the
standard wheel originally)?

FACT: 6 of the manual transmission cars built at the Norwood, Ohio plant left the factory with vinyl tops. 4 in dark blue, 2 in black.

FICTION: Some cars came with the word TRANS AM or FIREBIRD etched in the side window glass (this is 100 percent untrue, another myth read in some books)

FACT: All ’69 T/As are Ram Air cars. There were no T/As with the base 400. All will have functional Ram Air. Engine/Trans production figures are as follows:
Coupe, RA III, automatic transmission: 114<
Coupe, RA III, manual transmission: 520
Coupe. RA IV, automatic transmission: 9
Coupe, RA IV, manual transmission: 46
Convertible, RA III, automatic transmission, 4
Convertible, RA III, manual transmission, 4
Convertible, RA IV, automatic transmission, 0
Convertible, RA IV, manual transmission, 0
As you see the rarest of the ‘69 Trans Ams coupes was the RA IV coupe with automatic transmission. (Note, the silver proto-type T/A was a RA IV, auto, coupe too, but being a preproduction car, it would not be one of these 4 rare cars…. If only we knew where the silver car was today.) Added by Stuart: I believe this car has since been found.

FICTION: The standard T/A gear box was the Muncie 4 speed. (not true. T/As came standard with the M-13 Heavy Duty 3 speed. HOWEVER, if you optioned in a RA IV engine, and wished a manual transmission, the Muncie M21 close ratio 4 speed became a mandatory option).

FICTION: Other engines such as the 350 H.O. or even the 303 CID were available in the '69 Trans Am. (This is yet another published myth and is completely untrue. This one can be read in the October 1990 issue of Guide To Muscle Cars on page 21). It was also reported as early as the March 1969 issue of Hot Rod magazine that the 303 would become available in the production cars, but it was never to be. While Pontiac may have had it in the works, it never became available in production cars (the 303 was available for a short time over the parts counter only).

FICTION: A ‘through the grill’ RA option was available (While the idea was on the design table, the T/A (nor any Firebird) was never produced with this style Ram Air. You can see this design idea on page 45 of the book The Fabulous Firebird).

FICTION: ’69 T/A have a under dash bracket to ‘open’ the Ram Air. (While the ’69 RA 400 Firebird cars have this, the ’69 T/As do not. This published myth can be read on page 113 and 45 of the Fabulous Firebird).

FACT: While the hood tach was available as a dealer installed option, these were not offered from the factory, mostly I believe due to lack of room to the left of the large T/A scoops. (SIDE NOTE: A hood tach will fit to the side of the scoop but one of the mounting bolts will actually be under the hood hinge making it necessary to remove the hood from the hinge for installation.

FACT: The ’69 T/A hood is steel with fiberglass scoop inserts. Factory RA ‘tunnels’ are made of plastic. Factory RA pans, upper and lower, along with the air cleaner retainer and carb screen were all steel.

FACT: Side air extractors are functional, with holes cut behind them in the fenders (to allow hot air to escape from the engine compartment), and they are made of fiberglass. (note: Many publications refer to the air extractors as “simulated”. The do have 2 holes behind each extractor that actually let hot air escape from the engine compartment so they truthfully are functional and NOT just simulated.

FACT: The rear spoiler is fiberglass also. Original spoilers have a distinct lines where the pedestals mate to the ‘wing’. (SIDE NOTE1: This is a good way to tell a reproduction spoiler from an original. But beware, some reproductions have these lines.) (SIDE NOTE 2: The pedestals run right in the middle of each stripe. Even though the stripes are not painted over the spoiler, the pedestals were painted blue up to the bottom of the spoiler.

FACT: There were only two different magazine ads for the ’69 Trans Am. Both were similar, but one included pictures of some of the options that could be ordered, while the other ad did not. The ad with out the options can be found on the inside front cover of the May 1969 issue of Car and Driver (it has a red Maverick on cover) and the ad showing options can be found on pages 90 & 91 of the June 1969 issue of Road & Track. You can view these ads on-line at the 1969 Trans Am registry by clicking HERE
(SIDE NOTE: Notice that in the ad showing the Formula wheel, notice that the bottom spoke of that wheel has three holes. The following was posted by Steve Chin on the Classical Pontiac Q&A board, post # 10471 in the archive: “The Formula wheel was an option on the ’69 Trans Am. The real Formula wheel was not ready at the time of the press photo shoot, so they substituted a Momo Prototipo steering wheel for the Formula wheel (looks very similar, except it’s really leather and the vertical spoke has three holes in it and no leather wrap near the rim)”.

FACT: The car used in the ads used a pre-production hood. You can tell this by noticing that the hood does not have removable scoops (my guess is it’s probably fiberglass, but that is a guess).

FACT: Pontiac referred to the car in the ads as “Pontiacs New Pony Express”

FACT: Some early articles showing the silver T/A can be seen in the March, 1969 issue of Car Craft, the April 1969 issue of Car Life and the June 1969 issue of Motor Trend. Another very early article showing what appears to be the same car used in magazine advertisements can be seen in the April 1969 issue of Sports Car Graphic (note that the car in the article appears to have the hood with non-removable scoops, has stripes over the rear spoiler, has RAM AIR decals in the middle of the scoops, has the FIREBIRD fender emblems and has the 400 trunk lid emblem.

FACT: The ’69 Trans Am was never shown in any of the 1969 factory Pontiac or GM brochures that were distributed to the public. There was however a flyer type insert was made available for the dealers to insert in there showroom albums. I have recently been sent a scan of this insert page along with a short letter announcing the introduction of the T/A and where to insert the page into the dealer brochure. I have posted both of these on page 6. If you have any trouble opening the pictures, email me and I can send them to you. A HUGE THANKS goes out to Mike Noun for providing me with these.

FICTION: ’69 Trans Ams have unique rear side marker lamps. (This is another myth as read in the book “Firebird, Pure Excitement From Pontiac” Page 24. All ’69 Firebirds and T/As have the same marker lamp).

FACT: While not mentioned much, ’69 Trans Ams actually did in fact come from the factory with a front spoiler (more than just the 90 degree steel lip found on the metal baffle on 400 and a/c cars). This spoiler was made from a flat piece of plastic, spanning the width of the front valance and was mounted to the lip of the lower baffle found on 400 and a/c cars. There is an excellent picture of one of these spoilers seen in the book mentioned above (Firebird, Pure Excitement…) also on page 24.

FICTION: The headlamp surrounds are made of Endura material like the GTO bumpers (not so… these are actually made just from plastic and break quite easily. They do however have rubber cushions that mount behind them to protect them and the fenders).

FACT: The following are various codes that apply to the 1969 Trans Am:Engine block codes (this code will be a stamped code and located on the passenger side of the engine block directly below the head.NOTE: W codes denote manual transmissions, while X & Y coded denote auto transmissions.
RA III, Auto trans: YW = 335hp
RA III, Manual trans: WQ = 335hp
RA IV, Auto trans: XN = 345hp
RA IV, Manual trans: WH = 345 hp

Engine block casting codes: (this code will be cast as part of the engine block. This code can be found on the passenger side top of the block just behind the passenger side cylinder bank.
RA III: 9790071
RA IV: 9792506

Cylinder head codes: (This code will be cast as part of the head. RA III codes will be located on top of the center exhaust port on each cylinder head. RA IV codes will be located on top of the end exhaust ports, #1 & #8. This code is also a shortened version of the full casting number, note the full number show).
RA III, Auto trans: 16 or 62 (full number 9791216, 9791562), 2.11/1.77 valves, 72CC
RA III, Manual trans: 48 (full number 9795048) 2.11/1.77 valves, 72CC
RA IV, all transmissions: 722 (full number 9796722) 2.11/1.77 valves, 71CC

Exhaust manifold codes: (This code will be cast as part of the manifold. The code will be found on the front side of each manifold near the center)
RA III:
Right: 9797073
Left: 9779495
RA IV:
Right: 9797074
Left: 9797038

Intake Manifold codes: (This code will be cast as part of the intake manifold. Generally found just to the side of the water neck)
RA III: 9794234 (cast iron)
RA IV: 9796614 (aluminum)

Carburetor codes: (This code will be stamped into the side of the carb. vertically)
RA III, Auto trans: 7028270
RA III, Manual trans: 7028273
RA IV, Auto trans: 7029270
RA IV, Manual trans: 7029273

Distributor Codes: (This code will be stamped into the wide portion of the distributor body)
RA III, Auto trans: 1111946
RA III, Manual trans: 1111952
RA IV, all transmissions: 1111941

Mike, here I found the "I dream of Jeannie car":

[Stuart]

Mike - I edited post 292 to remove all the extra spaces, so it is more readable by others. Your post 291 is just too long for me to put the effort in correcting it, and in any case it should have been posted as a .TXT or .PDF file instead like I asked you yesterday. PLEASE take the time to do it yourself on future posts.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes Reply:


Keith, is this your Fathers Corvair, pulling the race car? Check out post # (291) Scroll down to the first (url's) and press on one.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes Reply:

I went into this post about Vapor Lock, A nightmare to solve for me with that big hood on a Firebird TA.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=857547&page=3

[sdbob]

I remember one car test in Popular Science
I misplaced the magazine. The cars I do remember were a 406 Ford, 409 Chevy,and a 62 421 Pontiac.They had the speeds for the 2 other cars.The article stated that it started to drizzle and the 'dual quad' Pontiac might be faster on dry pavement. The color of the car I think was I remember a light green. Wish I could find that article.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike Found this Aluminum Motor in this car: I am thinking it is a 62-63 wagon? I read about this car a long time ago, it might have one of the only 421ci Aluminum cast Blocks?

[tom s]

Mike,that was my car and my engine and it was a early 389 engine designed to be run without sleeves,it ended up 366 with sleeves.Tom

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mikes Reply:


Keith, is this your Fathers Corvair, pulling the race car? Check out post # (291) Scroll down to the first (url's) and press on one.

Yes -

There's seven carburetors in that photo; 4 on the Corvair, and 3 on the GTO.

K

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes Reply:

Keith, my father, owned a Corvair and raced it and drove it to work before he bought a Stingray and then the Maco-Shark.