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#1
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Bargain intake valve flow test
A while ago we started working on some Pontiac aluminum heads for a pretty stout factory block build. The valves I wanted to use for the project were on Covid back order and took more than eight months to receive. So I could move forward on the project I used a couple of popular brand, nice looking "bargain" intake valves for seat work, port development and flow testing. The bargain valves were the same dimensions as the valves we were waiting for. I wanted to flow test the correct valves for the project and found the results interesting, so much so, I reflowed the bargain valves back to back to verify my data was correct. I thought I'd share the results. An added plus is the "good" valves are more that 10% lighter than the "bargain" valves.
Good valves / Bargain valves Lift CFM CFM .100. 81 81 .200. 151 141 .300. 222 206 .400. 282 266 .500. 330 318 .550. 342 335 .600. 361 353 .650. 363 358 .700. 366 361 .750. 366 366 Last edited by PAUL K; 02-18-2024 at 02:20 PM. |
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#2
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Thanks for the report Paul!
Could you give more details between the two brands? 45 seat width? Margin height? Is one stem under cut? Does one have a chamfer on top of the margin? Is one more tulip then the other.? The flow gains between.200” and .400” should make a fat difference in how long the motor holds on to peak HP for.
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#3
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That is very interesting who thought that a valve could make that much difference in airflow. I also am interested in what valves were the good valves and the bad valves. Also what about on the exhaust side? Was this with E-Heads of high ports?
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Tim Corcoran |
#4
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Quote:
Your questions in order One brand we sell the other is sold by many including Pontiac specific shops. Seat width .060 vs .085 Margin .060 vs .050 Both undercut stems Both chamfered on face one is small radius other is small angle cut Both 12° back angle |
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#5
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Quote:
I'm not going the mention brands. Most valve manufacturers offer different series of valves. Series X might flow great but Series Z might suck (lol) or one part number in the same series may be a good or poor flowing valve ..... I wouldn't want folks running out a buying poor flowing valves. Exhaust has custom titanium which flow good. Wenzler Series 2 |
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#6
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Both valves were tested out of the box. Both valves would most likely show improvement with basic modifications. Obviously one has a lot more room for improvement.
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#7
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Are they 2.19” valves Paul?
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#8
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The Following User Says Thank You to PAUL K For This Useful Post: | ||
#9
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Thanks!
So using the valve diameter Xs .2 math it’s clear that the non bargain valve all the way up to .450” lift likes that seat geometry and the chamber exit geometry your using a good amount more!
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! Last edited by steve25; 02-18-2024 at 05:33 PM. |
#10
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Quote:
The actual flow area (curtain area) is smaller for the same valve size and seat angle with a wider seat at any given lift. If you have the time could you near the 0.085" down to 0.060" and see what the difference is? Stan Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#11
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Hi Stan , sorry can't make that happen. I'm two years behind. I could spend a day and fix the bargain valves then I would be two years and a day behind. Regardless, it would be considerably heavier than the better valve even if I fixed the flow deficiency. Last edited by PAUL K; 02-18-2024 at 07:15 PM. |
#12
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Paul even though they have under cut stems are they the same diameter and same length of undercut" I have seen a wide variety of different dimensions there as well as different amount of "tulip" even on flat valves. Since the bargain valves are heavier I wonder if larger in those areas.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#13
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Nice info. It pays to pay attention to details. People don't seem to understand why their cars don't perform as they think is usually because they didn't pay attention to the details. They paid more attention to $$, the small things matter. In this case yes what valves that are in the heads matter.
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#14
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#15
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Hi Paul,
Did you do any pitot probing with the 2 sets of valves? Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#16
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Good morning Stan, lot when developing the port.... None with the better flowing valve.
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#17
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Quote:
Thanks. I was thinking with the big difference in mid lift flow looking at the velocities at those lifts might give an idea of how / where the good valve had improved flow. Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
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