[b-man]

It’s up to you guys whether or not it gets closed.

[Dragncar]

OK Bart. Its cool, positive only from here on out.

[Dragncar]

They are in my 461 High Port engine. It should make at least 680 - HP 700+ is things go really well.
I am so not worried about using Molnar standard 6.8 BBC rods. Currently thrashing to get it ready for the season.
Engine in, engine out. New headers and going with mid plate and merge collectors. All adds up to issues, driveshaft issues. I have to pull the engine back out because my Steffs Race pan just kisses the frame and I have to notch it out.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by TransAm 474

Thanks for posting the pictures, much appreciated! I hope this thread don't get closed either, lots of good info and pictures here for future users ....

I thought I could not get the pics. They are on a non working computer of mine.
But I dug here and found the post I made years ago and made a screenshot, of a screenshot.

I am of the opinion that there currently is no reason to buy a Eagle or Scat rod for you Pontiac ever again.
They cost about the same and if you have to have the big end or small end resized like I had to do what is the point ?
And they are not nearly as strong.
If someone wants a truly inexpensive rod for a 500 HP or stockish build you can always wait for Speedmasters Black Friday deal. We picked up a set for around 250$ with ARP 8740 bolts. Bet they have to be resized but that is part of the deal.
Heck I have been beating on 290$ CAT H beams for years and years at over 550 HP and they lived fine. Well, after honing the big end, it was slightly tight.

[Gach]

Dragncar, It’s pretty obvious you have animosity towards me. My post was obviously my concern over quality of the material.. No one bad mouth Chinese made products more then you. But god for bid anyone has concern. My conversation with Tom just backed up my theory, on why the rod broke in haft. He was gracious enough and honest enough to explain why. I absolutely believe him. So There lies the reason why he makes a power adder rod. Your problem is you’re not gracious enough to allow everyone to form their own opinion.

[Dragncar]

Gach, there is no animosity here. I got banned for saying the truth, just the way it is.
Now are you telling us that Tom Molnar suggested that a 600-650 HP stock block pump gas stroker needed Power Adder rods ? When the standard rod can take over 1000 NA horsepower ?
The standard BBC 6.60 Molnar rod that has taken all that power weighs 742 grams . The Molnar Pontiac 6.625 rod with BBC big end weighs 779 grams. The Molnar Pontiac rod with a PMD big end weighs 766 grams.
Just curious on what Tom said to you as far as the engine needing PA rods. Care to share ? For the life of me I can not figure out why ? A pump gas NA stock block Pontiac can not turn enough RPM to rip a good rod in half.(unless you are crazy) But the pin can rip out of the piston and a beefy rod is not going to change that. I do not see the big end of the std Molnar rod going out of round. Make it make some sense please. What was Toms theory and what was your theory ? It was not a high power engine.
We all know the connecting rod, particularly the rod bolts/big end is the highest stressed part in a engine. But it just has to keep its shape to do its job.
One thing is for sure is Tom Molnar is a very interesting guy to talk to.
We can be civil. And we do not have to agree, its fine.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Gach

Dragncar, It’s pretty obvious you have animosity towards me. My post was obviously my concern over quality of the material.. No one bad mouth Chinese made products more then you. But god for bid anyone has concern. My conversation with Tom just backed up my theory, on why the rod broke in haft. He was gracious enough and honest enough to explain why. I absolutely believe him. So There lies the reason why he makes a power adder rod. Your problem is you’re not gracious enough to allow everyone to form their own opinion.

Gach,
Since you talked with Tom, what did he have to say about the quality of the metal used in his rods?

Stan

[Gach]

That was the interesting part seeing he was involved with his previous company, he’s well aware of dealing with a reliable source for material that he confident with.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

One could just use a slightly thicker head gasket.

Precisely.

[Dragncar]

Now this is just my opinion. What makes Molnar so much better than CAT, Eagle, Scat ect is not the steel. They all use 4340 steel from China. Yeah, Molnars cost a bit more and is batched tested more.
But its the actual shape of the Molnar rod that makes it so good. Extra metal where it counts. No wide and thin beams that go wavy, and you are done.
Whitmore told me years ago that he did not like the Eagle rod. too thin and defiantly would not use them with nitrous.
He sold me 6.8 Crower Sportsmans, wish I never sold them.
At work we just used a chunk a 4340 billet shaft to stub shaft a edger arbor. Machinist had to spend extra time with it, hard steel.

[Half-Inch Stud]

If anybody is serious about rod metallurgy; get the "SAE" 4340 metal analysed for evidence of Magnesium Sulfide "stringers". These stringers act as crack nuclei (crack starters). We did and are wiser for finding the impurity that should not have been in there. Think we had CTC Corp in Johnstown PA perform the metallurgy inspection on our "SAE" 4340 billet crankshaft parts ( custom 2-Stroke). They found the chinesium.

https://link.springer.com/article/10...668-015-9940-9

I suppose if the supplier Sources MIL-STD SAE-4340 billets for billet rods, then you know for sure the material pedigree, and can caclulate the rod life in the application stress.

I'm not knowing how a Rod Supplier(MFG'r) certifies a red-hot SAE-4340 vat-pot as a QA Engr'r inspected Lot ( batch ).

[PAUL K]

Lots of positive comments for the Molnar rods.... Not many mentions of their crankshafts.... Are all you folks using the Molnar crankshafts in your builds?

Gach, any pictures of that broken Molnar rod you can post?

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by tom s

Crower Sportsman Pontiac rods are now $1360.FWI,Tom

Yes and the brand new set I put in my 505 highport motor years back had to be resized.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Lots of positive comments for the Molnar rods.... Not many mentions of their crankshafts.... Are all you folks using the Molnar crankshafts in your builds?

Gach, any pictures of that broken Molnar rod you can post?

I'd like to hear more about their cranks and who is using them.

[Dragncar]

There is a member who runs one with 6.7 rods I believe. He had one of those Ohio 4.75 crank and changed it out to a shorter Molnar crank. I remember the pistons had some pretty good wear on them when he removed them. It was a very pretty light blue GTO I believe and I want to say he lives in the Mid West.
We all know him, used to post a lot.
What we all need to do is get together convince Tom to make us a fully counterweighted crank like his 1200 BBC crank. He would utterly dominate the Pontiac 4340 crank market if he did. Since no fully counterweighted "forged" into shape Pontiac cranks exists he would control the market. And these days the billet cranks are getting near the 5,000 $ range most of the race guys would come to him.
Just remembered. Hooter runs one.

[72projectbird]

I'll be honest, I haven't really looked at what Molnar had to offer before. I don't know why, just got lost in the sea of aftermarket rotating assemblies I guess.

After reading this thread, and going off on my own doing more research, I'm seriously considering them for my GN. I'm not at the point where the stock rods are in danger, but they might be in the near future.

[Dragncar]

Here is a tip for those considering Molnar rods. They are very specific on tightening of their rod bolts.
They have 2 acceptable methods.
First one is rod bolt stretch. The gold standard. It requires a stretch gauge and will set you back a few bucks. And since most of us have never used one they are a pain. We all just used a torque wrench and were done with it.
My buddy did his Molnar rods rod stretch and the final tq was in the 90LB range !
Their other method is do a initial tq to 30-35lbs (different for different series of rods) and then turn the bolt with a big breaker bar a certain number degrees.

You can buy the fancy tq wrenches that tell you lbs of torque AND degrees of revolution but most of us don,t do enough high end engines to justify the purchase.

I did the latter method. I bought a parts store degree tool and what I am saying is do not for any reason buy the one in the first pic. GARBAGE. On about rod 3 I noticed the gauge started to not turn at the exact rate I was turning my wrench. There mush be some O ring or something in there as a friction device. Who knows for sure , just don.t use it.

The last 2 pictures are of a Lisle part. It is a very simple and direct degree gauge. You attach the little clamp on something so part of the gauge can not turn. And tighten your bolt using the little degree wheel.
You can not stand anywhere you want like the first gauge but this one but the Lisle gauge can not give you a false reading.
Note, its a very good idea to have 2 people there doing this. 4 eyes and 2 brains help keep track. Turn off your phone and do not get distracted. If you do, and want to come back and remember which bolt and what step you are on, that can be confusing and catastrophic.
I had to buy a new gauge and start over. Luckily I had the PA rods and used the lube from them. ( I need some more now)
Mark each bolt with a paint pen or something when you complete each one.
Hope this helps.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Here is a tip for those considering Molnar rods. They are very specific on tightening of their rod bolts.
They have 2 acceptable methods.
First one is rod bolt stretch. The gold standard. It requires a stretch gauge and will set you back a few bucks. And since most of us have never used one they are a pain. We all just used a torque wrench and were done with it.
My buddy did his Molnar rods rod stretch and the final tq was in the 90LB range !
Their other method is do a initial tq to 30-35lbs (different for different series of rods) and then turn the bolt with a big breaker bar a certain number degrees.

You can buy the fancy tq wrenches that tell you lbs of torque AND degrees of revolution but most of us don,t do enough high end engines to justify the purchase.

I did the latter method. I bought a parts store degree tool and what I am saying is do not for any reason buy the one in the first pic. GARBAGE. On about rod 3 I noticed the gauge started to not turn at the exact rate I was turning my wrench. There mush be some O ring or something in there as a friction device. Who knows for sure , just don.t use it.

The last 2 pictures are of a Lisle part. It is a very simple and direct degree gauge. You attach the little clamp on something so part of the gauge can not turn. And tighten your bolt using the little degree wheel.
You can not stand anywhere you want like the first gauge but this one but the Lisle gauge can not give you a false reading.
Note, its a very good idea to have 2 people there doing this. 4 eyes and 2 brains help keep track. Turn off your phone and do not get distracted. If you do, and want to come back and remember which bolt and what step you are on, that can be confusing and catastrophic.
I had to buy a new gauge and start over. Luckily I had the PA rods and used the lube from them. ( I need some more now)
Mark each bolt with a paint pen or something when you complete each one.
Hope this helps.

The proper way is invest in a stretch gauge, who the hell wants to go though all that. Just my opinion

[Gach]

How big is the bigger Breaker bar you have a picture of it… a part number for it.
you’d definitely be my go to guy…would 3 guys be better. We could all sit around have a few beers. LOL

[Gach]

What color paint pen should I use ?