[64speed]

Wondering if an engine oil cooler is worth the investment for engine longevity. Also those of you running them how do you keep the rubber hose off the headers?

[Steve C.]

https://www.holley.com/brands/earls/...%20&%20Support


https://www.holley.com/brands/earls/...oling_systems/

Lots of propaganda out there


https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the...-it-seriously/
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[ta man]

If one was building a car that was going to see high rpms for long lengths of time it would be a good idea. For your average hobby car not worth the trouble or even needed.
For example my current engine is hardblocked..filled to the bottom of the waterpump holes. My biggest concern with the shortblock was how to control oil temperatures. I was ready to dive into oil coolers,remote filters,thermostats and the lines and fitting. Someone suggested to just see what it does for oil temps. As far as normal driving my oil temps normally sit at 210, around town they creep up once in a while to 240 and also down the highway at higher revs in the 3000rpm range they will creep up to 240. Which from what I understand with synthetic oil shouldn't be an issue.
What is interesting with running a oil temp gauge you really see when your engine is truly warmed up and it takes a while for oil temps to get to 210.

[krisr]

I've data-logged my motor substantially, i've got engine oil temp as one of my inputs to the EFI computer. Before hardblocking the engine the oil would sit at about 100*C (212*F) on local street driving, after an extended drive on the freeway, would creep up to about 110-115*C (230-240*F) then cool back down when the rpm dropped. After hardblocking the temps rose about 20*C everywhere, so I put an oil thermostat (85*C) and an oil cooler on the car, now the oil is at basically 95*C-105*C everywhere.

IMO, unless you're grout filling the block, move along, nothing to see here. You want the oil to get up to temperature otherwise you'll be changing it every 3000miles.

[HWYSTR455]

I ran a block filled to the freeze plugs for 90k miles on the street, abusively, and many many long trips, never saw over 300F degrees. Use quality name-brand oil, change it on regular intervals, and you are good.

If you're concerned about it, you can help by using a larger capacity oil pan. That should be good for a few degrees.

As for lines, routing, and headers, the best way to plumb is tap the block itself, and don't use an adapter. Then use pipe threaded fittings in the block. That's as close as you're going to get with clearance.

When you go to remote filter/cooler setup, there are other concerns, such as potential for leaks, hose replacement intervals, line size impact on flow/psi/etc, drainback/refill time, bypass, and filter types to use. = Headache for little to no gain.

.

[TedRamAirII]

I think you WANT the oil to get at least over 220f to boil off any water. As long as you keep it under 250f I think you are fine.

[JLMounce]

FWIW, I used to do track events in my C6 corvettes and would watch oil temps. The computer will not through the engine into limp due to oil temps until they reach about 305 degrees. I've seen as high as 300 on a 100+ degree day about 15 minutes into a 20 minute session on that car. Base C6, no oil cooler.

Now that type of situation on a large bearing pontiac engine is going to create more heat, but my broader point is that the engine protection strategy of the GM as delivered computer doesn't kick in until above 300 degrees for the oil they recommend (mobile 10/30). So normalized temps in the low 200's are fine. If you're consistently seeing temps at or about 250 you just want to change the oil at earlier intervals.

My example above would be fairly extreme for most of us here with out cars, but it's understood that if you're at a track event like that, it gets a fresh fill before and after the event.

[lust4speed]

Keeping the oil warm (over 212°) and the coolant cool is going to produce a happy engine. I still have an oil cooler on the drag car, but removed the oil coolers from the street cars. During the cooler weather the oil just wasn't getting warm enough to purge the moisture.

The other thing I found out was you stick a monster engine oil cooler along with a monster trans cooler, and an A/C condenser in front of your radiator and they do a pretty good job of stifling airflow. Coolant temps dropped 20° by eliminating the oil cooler and going to a smaller better suited trans cooler, and engine oil temps didn't go up that much.

[hgerhardt]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Keeping the oil warm (over 212°) and the coolant cool is going to produce a happy engine.... During the cooler weather the oil just wasn't getting warm enough to purge the moisture.....

And that's why I love oil-to-water coolers like they used on 4th gen TA's with manual trans and C4 Corvettes.

On a cold start, the water heats faster than the oil which causes the cooler to actually warm the oil. After warmup, it's the opposite situation.

Below is the setup on my '66 GTO. It's a C4 Corvette unit (made by Modine) attached to a 90deg adapter via a simple adapter plate on a Firebird long-branch adapter. The hoses connect to the heater nipple on the RH head (although mine takes water from both heads) and then to the heater core. The switch (used to) control the electric fuel pump and also turn on an oil pressure idiot light (with rally gauges and solid rollers, you can't hear/easily notice if there's low oil pressure). This cooler also allows (forces?) the use of SBC oil filters. Unfortunately, with Doug's headers I have to use a shorter filter than that PF-35L (it worked well with H-O Racing's Tri-Y headers). If you want a CAD file of the adapter plate, shoot me a PM.

[Skip Fix]

Originally Posted by hgerhardt

And that's why I love oil-to-water coolers like they used on 4th gen TA's with manual trans and C4 Corvettes.

On a cold start, the water heats faster than the oil which causes the cooler to actually warm the oil. After warmup, it's the opposite situation.

Below is the setup on my '66 GTO. It's a C4 Corvette unit (made by Modine) attached to a 90deg adapter via a simple adapter plate on a Firebird long-branch adapter. The hoses connect to the heater nipple on the RH head (although mine takes water from both heads) and then to the heater core. The switch (used to) control the electric fuel pump and also turn on an oil pressure idiot light (with rally gauges and solid rollers, you can't hear/easily notice if there's low oil pressure). This cooler also allows (forces?) the use of SBC oil filters. Unfortunately, with Doug's headers I have to use a shorter filter than that PF-35L (it worked well with H-O Racing's Tri-Y headers). If you want a CAD file of the adapter plate, shoot me a PM.

The late 90s Chevy trucks with a towing package had a similar oil cooler. At least my 97 sure does.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

The late 90s Chevy trucks with a towing package had a similar oil cooler. At least my 97 sure does.

Yep Skip, GM had it in the 80's too. My 88 Iroc Z 350 TPI had one just like that.

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by hgerhardt

And that's why I love oil-to-water coolers like they used on 4th gen TA's with manual trans and C4 Corvettes.



On a cold start, the water heats faster than the oil which causes the cooler to actually warm the oil. After warmup, it's the opposite situation.



Below is the setup on my '66 GTO. It's a C4 Corvette unit (made by Modine) attached to a 90deg adapter via a simple adapter plate on a Firebird long-branch adapter. The hoses connect to the heater nipple on the RH head (although mine takes water from both heads) and then to the heater core. The switch (used to) control the electric fuel pump and also turn on an oil pressure idiot light (with rally gauges and solid rollers, you can't hear/easily notice if there's low oil pressure). This cooler also allows (forces?) the use of SBC oil filters. Unfortunately, with Doug's headers I have to use a shorter filter than that PF-35L (it worked well with H-O Racing's Tri-Y headers). If you want a CAD file of the adapter plate, shoot me a PM.

Tell me more. I'll definately take a copy of that cad file if you're offering. Does this interfere with the bell housing or headers at all? Do you have any pics of it installed? I added an oil temp gauge to my speedhut cluster this year and I'm going to monitor it closely while racing. I ran a hill climb with my 67 gto last year where revs were 4-6500 rpm for a lot of it and I think my oil was getting hot.

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[bendutro]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

I ran a hill climb with my 67 gto last year where revs were 4-6500 rpm for a lot of it and I think my oil was getting hot.

Was pressure dropping? Are you running 3" or 3.25" mains? I ask because I talked to Don Stellhorn about his issues and it sounded like sustained rpm and high bearing speeds resulted in spun bearings more than once so he hit the LS button and didn't look back.

I'm building mine for similar duty, hope to run into you one of these days once she's finished!

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by bendutro

Was pressure dropping? Are you running 3" or 3.25" mains? I ask because I talked to Don Stellhorn about his issues and it sounded like sustained rpm and high bearing speeds resulted in spun bearings more than once so he hit the LS button and didn't look back.



I'm building mine for similar duty, hope to run into you one of these days once she's finished!

3" main, 4" stroke. The idle oil pressure was down 5-7 lbs over hot idle after the run. Shut it down back in the paddock and let it cool down and it was no big deal. Pressure was back to normal. Then I drove it home 3.5 hrs. No issues. Just seemed like it got warm and thin.

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[azbirds]

[QUOTE=bendutro;5991827] I ask because I talked to Don Stellhorn about his issues and it sounded like sustained rpm and high bearing speeds resulted in spun bearings more than once so he hit the LS button and didn't look back.

Just wondering about the rest of the story. What kind of rotating assembly did this guy saddle his Pontiac engine with? Did he run a three stage dry sump system like his ls3 has? Was he spinning main bearings or rod bearings? IMHO hitting the "ls button" is a cop out.

[hgerhardt]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

Tell me more. I'll definitely take a copy of that cad file if you're offering. Does this interfere with the bell housing or headers at all? Do you have any pics of it installed? I added an oil temp gauge to my speedhut cluster this year and I'm going to monitor it closely while racing. I ran a hill climb with my 67 gto last year where revs were 4-6500 rpm for a lot of it and I think my oil was getting hot.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Sent you a step file of the adapter.
There's no interference with a 200-4R and Doug's RP headers in my '66 GTO. But, I do have to use a shorter filter than that PF-35L with the Doug's. Last time I used a Mobil 1 filter that was 4" dia and about 4" long, forgot which p/n, but correct for an SB Chevy.

[padgett]

Just for S&G my tow car (Jeep Grand Cherokee with Pentastar and trailer towing package) has readouts for coolant, engine oil, and transmission oil temperatures.

With a 180F thermostats and "aggressive" radiator fans, nothing gets over 200F even with AC on MAX. Coolant usually runs 90-100F over ambient.

Biggest boon to transmissions is lockup, temp stays down when locked. I'll drop a gear or two on Interstate hills to stay out of PE and in lockup.

Agree, racing is different (why I had a 3.55 in my B/P Corvette) but for street driving that's my guideline.

[Steve C.]

"Redline seem to do the trick. I'd guess oil temps even with a cooler was in the 300+ degree range. Amazing stuff and pricey too."

X2


Ester based oil

.

[coslanzetta]

Originally Posted by hgerhardt

And that's why I love oil-to-water coolers like they used on 4th gen TA's with manual trans and C4 Corvettes.

On a cold start, the water heats faster than the oil which causes the cooler to actually warm the oil. After warmup, it's the opposite situation.

Below is the setup on my '66 GTO. It's a C4 Corvette unit (made by Modine) attached to a 90deg adapter via a simple adapter plate on a Firebird long-branch adapter. The hoses connect to the heater nipple on the RH head (although mine takes water from both heads) and then to the heater core. The switch (used to) control the electric fuel pump and also turn on an oil pressure idiot light (with rally gauges and solid rollers, you can't hear/easily notice if there's low oil pressure). This cooler also allows (forces?) the use of SBC oil filters. Unfortunately, with Doug's headers I have to use a shorter filter than that PF-35L (it worked well with H-O Racing's Tri-Y headers). If you want a CAD file of the adapter plate, shoot me a PM.

Hey why is the filter housing on such an angle to clear your headers ?I'd like to do this

[hgerhardt]

Originally Posted by coslanzetta

Hey why is the filter housing on such an angle to clear your headers ?I'd like to do this

Yes, that's exactly why it's angled backwards.