[Jay S]

You might be able to spray some Either running with the valve cover off around the possible trouble spots on #7 and treat it like a vacuum leak.

Testing it with Aerosol Dykem would also be an option. Usually something you do while it is on the flow bench while pulling a vacuum though, not on the car. Something to consider though.


I think swapping out the head gasket to the Cometic so the head bolt is not open to the valley was a good suggestion. My guess is the problem still is coming from a head bolt boss or porosity at the pushrod pinch, and was something created from the port work, not leaking past threads or a bad guide seal. But the problem is isolated now to number 7, so I would make sure all those thing are ok.

[steve25]

Sam i am in agreement with your assessment in your post #120 that this issue is all still just Head related.

[NeighborsComplaint]

At this point, I'd be buying some dished pistons, rings and these heads ... https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=863707

You can ball hone the cylinders, assemble it and let her rip.

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Not saying this is your issue and not sure what head gasket you are using but if you are using stock type head gaskets (like FelPro) the head bolt holes in the gaskets are elongated enough theybreach into the valley of the block on those center intake head bolts (see pic). It will suck oil up through there if that area isn't sealed and there is a hole in the head bolt boss (like you have).
If you are running gaskets like this I would swap them out for Cometic ones which don't have those head bolt holes elongated liked that.

...and the winner is...!

Well.. So I managed to get out to the garage long enough to pull the intake off again. I rigged up a little adapter using some expanded foam material that lets me put suction on the intake port using a little shop vac I have.



Looks like the breach to the pushrod hole is able to pull some oil even with the brass tube in there. I can wipe it clean, run the vac on the intake, and then still get oil on my finger from the exposed bit of brass tube after.



It also looks like I'm still getting some down the rocker stud hole so I seem to have a two for one. But I've now realised that the rocker stud hole is enough deeper than the end of the rocker stud that I don't need to try sealing the threads (and I realised that will never work anyway because Edelbrock puts helicoil type inserts in the hole and they waller themselves loose with repeated torquing) I can just clean out the hole well once more and make a plug for the bottom of the hole. Maybe with some epoxy or something.

Anyway, so since I seem able to pull oil from the valley through the big oval head gasket holes it seems I need to say goodbye to my favoured 1018 Fel Pros. I've got a set of the Mahle head gaskets on order from RockAuto and they seem about the same thickness (advertised .040 vs the Fel Pro .039) so hopefully that will take care of that side. Hope they hold up. They seemed quite cheap but if they work they work. Should seal up the bottom side anyway.



Just wanted to say I'm still here and if this works I'll be so over the moon.

I'm also working on adding in a small pusher pump. I've been thinking about not gaining any ET and the nosedive in the top end during my fastest 1/4 mile pass. I think I'm not able to fuel it enough. So hopefully I seal up the oil ingress and get a little more fuel coming in and maybe actually go faster...

Sam

[steve25]

Good detective work Sam!

You’ll get it all good with this last go around.

[glhs#116]

Just a quick update. I've got the Mahle head gaskets. Looks legit. It's going to seal up the engine side of those headbolt holes for sure. Rest of the holes look the same place. Thickness looks the same. The bore size is smaller (but with just as large valve cutouts). My caliper makes the bore size still roughly 4.250" which is still more than I need so I think this should be something that can only help.

FelPro 1016 on the Mahle 3494VC


Sam

[glhs#116]

Just a little update to say that things are a little less mysterious now. I'm really determined not to do a half job this time because I am really quite "done" with this whole issue.

I got the driver's side head off. This is the one with #7 that ingests and burns all the oil. My two heads were obviously built on different stations or something because my passenger side head the rocker stud holes don't break through. However, on the driver's side the really break through hard.

driver's side rocker holes


I didn't think this was the main problem but I didn't like having such a large suction hole especially when it seemed like the threads were proving hard to seal. I knew the holes were so deep there was some good depth to work with. After trying some rubber plugs as seals I realised that the best plug would probably be a solid lump of Right Stuff black RTV. So I put some in the bottom of each rocker hole then screwed in the rocker stud. I wiped off the excess from the inside of the port with my finger. I think it will prove an effectively "blind" hole now.

plugged rocker hole


Nonetheless, my investigation with the vacuum suggested to me that a lot of the oil -- maybe all of it -- was coming in through the headbolt hole side. This was a bit odd since I sleeved these holes last go round. The sleeve is visible from inside the port and looks intact.

Well, I got to shining the light around and I thought I saw something in the sleeve from a certain angle. I had a little bit of the tube stock left over so I was game for driving it out to have a look.

what I saw


I drove it out (which wasn't as easy as you might think since I had loctited it in there) and -- yup -- that would, er, be a problem...

a sleeve with a view


Sam

[glhs#116]

Got the new sleeve loctited in and reamed. Seems to be fully intact and the headbolt slides easily through. Onwards..

ok sleeve inside


port side (little fluff from the cleaning cloth stuck in there)


Sam

[steve25]

My hats off to you for staying with it until every possible failure point was fully looked at .

Now you can enjoy that motor running the way it should.��
Ps that’s a thumbs up I gave you.

Why this site is so screwed up with using these I just don’t understand!

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by glhs#116

After trying some rubber plugs as seals I realised that the best plug would probably be a solid lump of Right Stuff black RTV. So I put some in the bottom of each rocker hole then screwed in the rocker stud. I wiped off the excess from the inside of the port with my finger. I think it will prove an effectively "blind" hole now.

1. I would not want a lump of RTV Silicone to come loose inside the intake port, and make it's way into the cylinder. The RTV Silicone will be exposed to manifold vacuum, significant air velocity pulses, and gasoline (liquid droplets, and vapor.)

2. Most RTV Silicone is not compatible with gasoline. Gets soft, degrades, loses integrity.

https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-maker-7-5-oz/

Under the "Instructions" tab:

" NOTE: Not for use as a head gasket or on parts in contact with gasoline."

The sooner you remove the RTV Silicone, the better.




How deep is the rocker stud hole below the actual rocker stud? Can you thread the hole the full length, and then screw-in a brass or aluminum set screw into the hole from the bottom, sealed with Loctite thread locker AND LOCTITE "ACTIVATOR"?

If this were me, I'd go back to using Loctite 592 thread sealer on the rocker studs, and the aforementioned activator. You tried the sealer before, but not with activator. Probably wouldn't need the set-screw with this method.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

1. I would not want a lump of RTV to come loose inside the intake port, and make it's way into the cylinder. The RTV will be exposed to manifold vacuum, significant air velocity pulses, and gasoline (liquid droplets, and vapor.)

2. Most RTV Silicone is not compatible with gasoline. Gets soft, degrades, loses integrity.

https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-maker-7-5-oz/

Under the "Instructions" tab:

" NOTE: Not for use as a head gasket or on parts in contact with gasoline."

The sooner you remove the RTV Silicone, the better.

Ah, crap.

It's a good point you make.. My original plan involved a rubber piece of plug (actually a rubber grommit for sealing holes in sheet metal). It filled the hole nicely and had enough height to seal off the "side" of the hole. But I reallised that under suction it could move down a bit on the "port" side and act as a sort of one-way valve (but in the "wrong" direction). Then I thought of sealing it in place with the RTV. And that's when I thought it would be easier to just make the plug *out of* RTV. It would be much easier to plug if the hole broke through straight down. It's the "side cut" shape of it that makes it so hard to make a stable plug. I was also wondering about epoxy but I was chicken to try that. RTV so much easier to work with.

I can just try sealing the threads again. I felt a lot better, though, having something to physically block off that big "suction hole" pulling on the studs..

Originally Posted by Schurkey

How deep is the rocker stud hole below the actual rocker stud? Can you thread the hole the full length, and then screw-in a brass or aluminum set screw into the hole from the bottom, sealed with Loctite thread locker AND LOCTITE "ACTIVATOR"?

If this were me, I'd go back to using Loctite 592 thread sealer on the rocker studs, and the aforementioned activator. You tried the sealer before, but not with activator.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think it’s about 5.5mm from the bottom of the stud to the bottom of the hole. The hole comes up the side, though, maybe 4mm. So there’s not a lot of space where it is clear “straight across” even though there’s a kinda large space under the stud..


Sam

[glhs#116]

I might just go haul all of that RTV out somehow.. It was a hell of a thing loosening these studs. The threadlocker had really grabbed nicely. I bet the rocker studs weren't contributing to the oil burning. But I was just trying to settle this kinda "once and for all" since I had so many false fixes so far... It kinda shakes your confidence..

Sam

[Skip Fix]

Glad you found the culprit(s)

All of my E heads have the rocker stud hole into the intake port. First run set I had instructions did not mention sealing threads and at a long idel it would puff smoke. Using Permatex #14 on threads and a blob under the stud hex never and issue. I also put a blob under the head bolt washer on the set KRE sleeved that hole.

SBC Fast burns go into intake port their factory stud has a built in washer under the hex I guess helps seal it.

[glhs#116]

I think you basically can't seal an E head from the top because of the pushrod guide plates. I mean, I guess you could RTV the whole plate down but most people won't. So you basically have to seal the threads or plug the bottom.

Sam

[Jay S]

Since you have ran this engine for a while and not had trouble, I really rather doubt much of the oil consumption problem came from the rocker studs. At least not to the degree of trouble you were having. More than likely the oil was coming from the combination of head gasket you were using and port work there at the head bolt boss.

[glhs#116]

I think I was so confused by the continued oil burning after sleeving the headbolt holes that I started suspecting everything else. In a way, finding the big "window" and crack in the old sleeve is a weird kind of relief. It shows me how that cylinder could still have been drawing oil. And it explains why it was associated with things like going round a bend or sudden acceleration. Given the angle of the decks, oil that sloshes into the headbolt holes through the elongated head gasket holes would get drawn up by port suction and make a lot of smoke until that reservoir of oil was all drawn up. Then it would go back to a slow trickle of consumption until the next "slosh". That motion sensitivity was always the most confusing part of this whole deal...

Sam

[glhs#116]

Just a quick comparison of the two gaskets

FelPro 1016


Mahle 3494VC


Sam

[steve25]

It's strange , 6 looks tohave more of a burnt oil build up then 7.
Sam i would try and get as much of that backed on oil off of # 6 pistion as you can.
Otherwise there will be a lot of glowing hot spots at full throttle and then preingtion .

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by steve25

It's strange , 6 looks tohave more of a burnt oil build up then 7.
Sam i would try and get as much of that backed on oil off of # 6 pistion as you can.
Otherwise there will be a lot of glowing hot spots at full throttle and then preingtion .

Steve,

Yeah. It is odd. It's even odder when you look at the chamber view. #7 is kinda the "clean" one.



I think it might just be that I'm using the same modern synthetic 5W-30 as the other cars and it probably has a really nice detergent package. The oil in the chamber fouls the plug but seems to kinda clean the rest a bit and certainly seems to stop the carbon from sticking. Keep in mind, also, that #2 and #6 *used* to have an oil leak...

I was also a little surprised at how much carbon was building. I think with the pretty good leak going in #7 I might have been running an average tune that was fairly rich for the cylinders that didn't have a leak but ended up giving best vacuum overall because of #7 being lean (with the air leak)? Dunno. Plugs looked OK. Hope to be able to do a better job of tuning now if this fixes the oil issue.

Heads are on now. I'm not as worried about #6. It has the lowest compression, remember? But I was thinking maybe I'll warm it up and trickle some water into the carb for a little poor man's steam clean. Actually, I have a can of that GM carbon cleaner that you spray in as it is running and makes a ton of smoke. I might do that too (and then an oil change).

Gonna be a week or more before it is all together I imagine. I just wanted to get the heads on last night because it is really damp and didn't want any flash rust getting a chance to start anywhere...

Sam

[glhs#116]

So.. The day finally arrived and the planets aligned. It was reasonably dry, I was off work and available and the car was together. It was time for a little road trip







I'm pleased to report that not a single puff of blue smoke was seen in the rear view mirror at any time.

Sam