[242177P]

Originally Posted by Fullback66

I do have factory exhaust manifolds.

Technically, yeah, they're manifolds... but everybody
makes the distinction of factory headers because they
most certainly are not bread-and-butter manifolds.

These 67+ manifolds, when installed on the assembly
line, were accompanied by some changes. Headpipes
(3 bolt flanges vs 2), brake line to right front wheel, and
last but not least, wiring.

Originally Posted by Fullback66

Where should the wire be?

Look at the link in my previous post, it was meant to
steer you in the right direction. It just happens to be
the guide tube that goes on the motor mount.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Fullback66

242
I guess I am not sure exactly what you are talking about. I do have factory exhaust manifolds. Where should the wire be? I am thinking of getting new 1 gauge wires.
Please help me out
FB66

To further elaborate on 242177P's point, your photo appears to show the factory style Ram Air manifold rather than the stock manifold. Typically, the positive battery cable tube going to the starter won't fit between the RA exhaust manifold and the block like you have it. It would have to have been smashed down and very tight in there and would get very, very hot. It could eventually short the main positive cable directly to ground if it bakes the insulation off.
When using the RA manifolds the factory routed the cable down the front of the block and through a different style of tube that mounted horizontally to the engine mount and then to the starter.

[Fullback66]

Wow! I learn something new everyday. I did not realize I had those exhaust manifolds. Hopefully they are better than stock. It makes more sense now.
I am sure I will have more questions.
Thanks
FB66

[Fullback66]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Whoa. Factory headers, without the rerouted wiring?
There might not be anything wrong with your starter.
Extend existing wires with splices if you have to.

https://www.amesperf.com/parts/23387/

I have a 1966 389.
would that heatshield work on it?
FB66

[Greg Reid]

I'm thinking it would since it attaches to the motor mount but I ran mine that way without the correct tube. I used a heat shield made for large diameter wiring and just laid along the path next to the motor mount to the starter. Got it from Amazon.
You can see it in my photo right below where I moved my standard wire tube.

[60sstuff]

The correct way, as Pontiac engineers designed.
Nothing cobbled together here.

Factory illustrations showing the route of the wiring, protective tube and solenoid shield used with the large HO/RA exhaust manifolds.

[Greg Reid]

There you go... that's the way to do it.
Yes, mine's cobbled up but it serves the purpose and I'm good with it for now. I may make myself a RA tube one day. I'm a penny pincher sometimes and at the time I didn't want to spend over $40 for a steel tube a few inches long!

[RedDirtRoad]

Here is a photo of my wiring from my previous project a few years back.
As Greg said the heat tube to protect the wiring is attached to the motor mount

[tekheavy]

Originally Posted by OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door

I've been down the heat soak rabbit hole.
My advice is buy a new powemaster 9150 xs torque and all your problems will disappear.

Sent from my SM-A426B using Tapatalk

I put one of these in a few months ago. Solved the heat soak issue, but now it sounds like an old Chrysler starting up. Tried shimming it with no help. I assume this is how these starters sound??

[OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door]

Originally Posted by tekheavy

I put one of these in a few months ago. Solved the heat soak issue, but now it sounds like an old Chrysler starting up. Tried shimming it with no help. I assume this is how these starters sound??

I'm into my second starter on this engine over 14 years,
I don't hear anything wrong with the starter as you describe.
I just replace them now when heat sink symptoms appear

Sent from my SM-X200 using Tapatalk

[Fullback66]

Originally Posted by RedDirtRoad

Here is a photo of my wiring from my previous project a few years back.
As Greg said the heat tube to protect the wiring is attached to the motor mount

Would I be able to put the tube in with the engine in the car? I am not pulling the engine for this.
Thanks
FB66

[Fullback66]

I final got the negative cable made and installed. Took it for a drive. turned it off and waited a few seconds. Turned the key and it sounded a lot better. I at least started. I will also install 1 gauge cable for the positive and reroute the wire. I believe that the wires are the problem.

Question:

Can I get to the wires on the starter without dropping the starter? I really haven't looked yet.

Would you replace all the wires to the starter?

Can I put the tube heat shield in without pulling the engine? I am using welding cable. The insulation covering the wire is pretty good.

Thanks for all your knowledge guys!
FB66

[Greg Reid]

I can't imagine getting to the wires without dropping the starter but maybe it could be done. Never had that RA style tube so I don't have an answer there but I would expect that dropping the starter would help on that deal too.

[Fullback66]

I never messed with the starter in 23 years of owning the car.
It's new to me.
FB66

[Sirrotica]

There would be no way to take the wires on, and off, without lowering the starter. Be sure the battery cables are disconnected before attempting to remove the starter. Really easy to short them out if you forget to disconnect them.

Make sure you have something to rest it on when you lower it as it's fairly heavy. Maybe something like a milk crate to rest it on as you remove the starter wires. They're not long enough to get all the way to the ground so you need to set it on something, then remove them, reverse procedure to reinstall.

Make sure you remove, and replace the tin starter shims between the starter, and the block surface when you do it. Start the bolt closest to the engine (inner), then insert the shims before you start the outer bolt. Be sure the wires clear each other before you do the final tightening, you don't want them to cross feed when you reconnect the battery. Also be aware that you're tighening the wires into a plastic cap on the solenoid, overtighening them will crack the plastic cap, tight enough, but not too tight that the cap splits.

If the starter has been on the car for 23 years you might want to consider either overhauling it, or replacing it. Likely the bushings are worn out, and the armature is dragging on the fields, causing hot start problems beside the cable routing problems you already know you have. I do my own overhauls because I don't trust most other peoples work to do it properly. I've worked on mostly GM cars for over 50 years as my profession so I have the knowledge to rebuild starters myself.

Those are the points I can think of off the top of my head, someone else may have a suggestion that I missed. I hope this helps you out.

[60sstuff]

Sirrotica nailed it.

Don’t forget the milk crate!

[Fullback66]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

There would be no way to take the wires on, and off, without lowering the starter. Be sure the battery cables are disconnected before attempting to remove the starter. Really easy to short them out if you forget to disconnect them.

Make sure you have something to rest it on when you lower it as it's fairly heavy. Maybe something like a milk crate to rest it on as you remove the starter wires. They're not long enough to get all the way to the ground so you need to set it on something, then remove them, reverse procedure to reinstall.

Make sure you remove, and replace the tin starter shims between the starter, and the block surface when you do it. Start the bolt closest to the engine (inner), then insert the shims before you start the outer bolt. Be sure the wires clear each other before you do the final tightening, you don't want them to cross feed when you reconnect the battery. Also be aware that you're tighening the wires into a plastic cap on the solenoid, overtighening them will crack the plastic cap, tight enough, but not too tight that the cap splits.

If the starter has been on the car for 23 years you might want to consider either overhauling it, or replacing it. Likely the bushings are worn out, and the armature is dragging on the fields, causing hot start problems beside the cable routing problems you already know you have. I do my own overhauls because I don't trust most other peoples work to do it properly. I've worked on mostly GM cars for over 50 years as my profession so I have the knowledge to rebuild starters myself.

Those are the points I can think of off the top of my head, someone else may have a suggestion that I missed. I hope this helps you out.

Good stuff!
Thanks
FB66

[Kenth]

There is no need to catch the original starter with your forehead.
Use a threaded rod with a washer and nut in the inner bolt hole and lower the starter and let it hang on it during removal of cables.

The factory high torque starter with a slightly shortened solenoid return spring (std on RA and SD starters) and a solenoid heatshield will do the job as intended.

FWIW

[Fullback66]

Kenth,
Great idea. I think I know what you are talking about.
FB66