[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

So I guess we will find out how much a Visner head with two fours 541 nitrous motor will make in a couple weeks. You would think a good 100-150 better, maybe.

My trusty calculator says…

150HP/$22,000.00=$146.6666667dollars/perhp.


hmmmm.


Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[Mikes455Wagon]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

So basically you were just throwing around numbers like leaves in the wind that really means nothing at the end of the day. Sounds like some cylinder head power projections from the past that never came about either.

We strategize in the beginning of the program, then we build some actual hardware, test the crap out of it for a couple of years, make changes, test the crap out of it again and then release the product.

The difference between our Ford Research deal and your deal Stan is you haven't got past the second step or really even started the second step). You are a couple of thousand test hours behind on your program. At some point you have to get away from the calculator and "PULL A LEECH" and test something. JMO

Tom Vaught

ps There is a Pontiac Racer (named Chris Piper) who works in our Research Lab who does the dyno job daily. (He will tell you I speak truth, Kemosabe)

Tom, does Chris have an Orange and White GTO? If so I pitted beside him and his entire crew at Norwalk last year. Very nice group of people!

[Stan Weiss]

If from et / mph and weight you can calculate HP. Then why from et / mph and HP can't you calculate weight?

Using 1107 Dynoed HP, 2350 lbs, 5 speed trans, and DA = 2750.

60 Foot ET = 1.1102
330 Foot ET = 3.0250
1/8 Mile ET = 4.6480
1/8 Mile MPH = 151.0996
1000 Foot ET = 6.0567
1/4 Mile ET = 7.2503
1/4 Mile MPH = 189.1051

Stan

The / HP / Torque curves used for this simulation:

Engine_Size_=__535.0211_ci

________RPM________Horse_______Torque_________BMEP
_______5800______901.915______816.700______230.193
_______5850______910.804______817.700______230.475
_______5900______919.600______818.600______230.729
_______5950______928.300______819.400______230.954
_______6000______936.900______820.100______231.152
_______6050______945.514______820.800______231.349
_______6100______953.909______821.300______231.490
_______6150______962.196______821.700______231.603
_______6200______970.373______822.000______231.687
_______6250______978.437______822.200______231.744
_______6300______986.264______822.200______231.744
_______6350______993.971______822.100______231.715
_______6400_____1001.554______821.900______231.659
_______6450_____1009.010______821.600______231.575
_______6500_____1016.213______821.100______231.434
_______6550_____1023.157______820.400______231.236
_______6600_____1029.962______819.600______231.011
_______6650_____1036.498______818.600______230.729
_______6700_____1042.761______817.400______230.391
_______6750_____1048.872______816.100______230.024
_______6800_____1054.699______814.600______229.602
_______6850_____1060.237______812.900______229.122
_______6900_____1065.611______811.100______228.615
_______6950_____1070.554______809.000______228.023
_______7000_____1075.324______806.800______227.403
_______7050_____1079.783______804.400______226.727
_______7100_____1083.791______801.700______225.966
_______7150_____1087.611______798.900______225.176
_______7200_____1091.104______795.900______224.331
_______7250_____1094.264______792.700______223.429
_______7300_____1097.085______789.300______222.471
_______7350_____1099.561______785.700______221.456
_______7400_____1101.828______782.000______220.413
_______7450_____1103.599______778.000______219.286
_______7500_____1105.008______773.800______218.102
_______7550_____1106.049______769.400______216.862
_______7600_____1106.862______764.900______215.593
_______7650_____1107.298______760.200______214.268
_______7700_____1107.351______755.300______212.887
_______7750_____1107.016______750.200______211.450
_______7800_____1106.287______744.900______209.956
_______7850_____1105.308______739.500______208.434
_______7900_____1103.924______733.900______206.856
_______7950_____1102.132______728.100______205.221
_______8000_____1100.076______722.200______203.558
_______8050_____1097.602______716.100______201.839
_______8100_____1094.857______709.900______200.091
_______8150_____1091.684______703.500______198.287
_______8200_____1088.389______697.100______196.483
_______8250_____1084.658______690.500______194.623
_______8300_____1080.486______683.700______192.706
_______8350_____1076.183______676.900______190.790
_______8400_____1071.432______669.900______188.817
_______8450_____1066.547______662.900______186.844
_______8500_____1061.367______655.800______184.843
_______8550_____1055.726______648.500______182.785
_______8600_____1049.947______641.200______180.727
_______8650_____1044.028______633.900______178.670
_______8700_____1037.639______626.400______176.556
_______8750_____1031.107______618.900______174.442
_______8800_____1024.433______611.400______172.328
_______8850_____1017.447______603.800______170.186
_______8900_____1010.316______596.200______168.044
_______8950_____1003.041______588.600______165.902
_______9000______995.449______580.900______163.731

AVG:___7400_____1046.168______751.431______211.797

MIN:___5800______901.915______580.900______163.731

MAX:___9000_____1107.351______822.200______231.744

[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

If from et / mph and weight you can calculate HP. Then why from et / mph and HP can't you calculate weight?

Using 1107 Dynoed HP, 2350 lbs, 5 speed trans, and DA = 2750.

60 Foot ET = 1.1102
330 Foot ET = 3.0250
1/8 Mile ET = 4.6480
1/8 Mile MPH = 151.0996
1000 Foot ET = 6.0567
1/4 Mile ET = 7.2503
1/4 Mile MPH = 189.1051

Stan

The / HP / Torque curves used for this simulation:

Engine_Size_=__535.0211_ci

________RPM________Horse_______Torque_________BMEP
_______5800______901.915______816.700______230.193
_______5850______910.804______817.700______230.475
_______5900______919.600______818.600______230.729
_______5950______928.300______819.400______230.954
_______6000______936.900______820.100______231.152
_______6050______945.514______820.800______231.349
_______6100______953.909______821.300______231.490
_______6150______962.196______821.700______231.603
_______6200______970.373______822.000______231.687
_______6250______978.437______822.200______231.744
_______6300______986.264______822.200______231.744
_______6350______993.971______822.100______231.715
_______6400_____1001.554______821.900______231.659
_______6450_____1009.010______821.600______231.575
_______6500_____1016.213______821.100______231.434
_______6550_____1023.157______820.400______231.236
_______6600_____1029.962______819.600______231.011
_______6650_____1036.498______818.600______230.729
_______6700_____1042.761______817.400______230.391
_______6750_____1048.872______816.100______230.024
_______6800_____1054.699______814.600______229.602
_______6850_____1060.237______812.900______229.122
_______6900_____1065.611______811.100______228.615
_______6950_____1070.554______809.000______228.023
_______7000_____1075.324______806.800______227.403
_______7050_____1079.783______804.400______226.727
_______7100_____1083.791______801.700______225.966
_______7150_____1087.611______798.900______225.176
_______7200_____1091.104______795.900______224.331
_______7250_____1094.264______792.700______223.429
_______7300_____1097.085______789.300______222.471
_______7350_____1099.561______785.700______221.456
_______7400_____1101.828______782.000______220.413
_______7450_____1103.599______778.000______219.286
_______7500_____1105.008______773.800______218.102
_______7550_____1106.049______769.400______216.862
_______7600_____1106.862______764.900______215.593
_______7650_____1107.298______760.200______214.268
_______7700_____1107.351______755.300______212.887
_______7750_____1107.016______750.200______211.450
_______7800_____1106.287______744.900______209.956
_______7850_____1105.308______739.500______208.434
_______7900_____1103.924______733.900______206.856
_______7950_____1102.132______728.100______205.221
_______8000_____1100.076______722.200______203.558
_______8050_____1097.602______716.100______201.839
_______8100_____1094.857______709.900______200.091
_______8150_____1091.684______703.500______198.287
_______8200_____1088.389______697.100______196.483
_______8250_____1084.658______690.500______194.623
_______8300_____1080.486______683.700______192.706
_______8350_____1076.183______676.900______190.790
_______8400_____1071.432______669.900______188.817
_______8450_____1066.547______662.900______186.844
_______8500_____1061.367______655.800______184.843
_______8550_____1055.726______648.500______182.785
_______8600_____1049.947______641.200______180.727
_______8650_____1044.028______633.900______178.670
_______8700_____1037.639______626.400______176.556
_______8750_____1031.107______618.900______174.442
_______8800_____1024.433______611.400______172.328
_______8850_____1017.447______603.800______170.186
_______8900_____1010.316______596.200______168.044
_______8950_____1003.041______588.600______165.902
_______9000______995.449______580.900______163.731

AVG:___7400_____1046.168______751.431______211.797

MIN:___5800______901.915______580.900______163.731

MAX:___9000_____1107.351______822.200______231.744

and we have a winner on the calc contest! Stan, that looks like a ehead hp curve with that low of rpm peak. warning, warning, malfunction.

[johnta1]

If from et / mph and weight you can calculate HP. Then why from et / mph and HP can't you calculate weight?

Oh, Stan, you ruined it.


That would be too hard for some to figure out.
They don't understand equations and stuff.

[Chris Uratchko]

Where is the wall(limiting factor) in a pontiac engine?

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Mikes455Wagon

Tom, does Chris have an Orange and White GTO? If so I pitted beside him and his entire crew at Norwalk last year. Very nice group of people!

yes he does

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Oh, Stan, you ruined it.


That would be too hard for some to figure out.
They don't understand fairytales and emotional computer attachments.

fixed

the weight?
why no ia2?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by J.C.you

and we have a winner on the calc contest! Stan, that looks like a ehead hp curve with that low of rpm peak. warning, warning, malfunction.

J.C.
There were two points posted 1104 HP and 823 torque. That was the closest I could find in a short period of time. If you have a dyno sheet that you think is better than that and hits those two points would you please post it up.

Stan

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

My trusty calculator says…

150HP/$22,000.00=$146.6666667dollars/perhp.


hmmmm.


Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Sounds cheap to me

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Lil Jack spewed:



Should have quoted the website?
Kauffman site:


That was from 2011.
Mark ran 7.25 @ 189 MPH

He ran 7.16 @ 199 MPH a year later (2012)

How much more power do you think he was making in a years time?
(more than 1100 I guarantee you, probably over 1200 HP)

Who knows what they are making now.

One other thing, they don't have a lot of time to develop their own program, so I would say they would not be a good example for maximum power.
Probably others have done better.

There dyno is happy. The car is an x pro stock car top of the line everything with a stick. It's not making anywhere near 1200 HP.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by mike leech

the weight?
why no ia2?

Weight was 2350... I think that was the answer to someone sayin track results didnt match dyno power.

The real question then becomes... Did that car actually weigh 2350 or close at the starting line?
The real answer has been elusive... may indeed be honest, who am I to say? but... Maybe they should put it on the scales for all to see then run a back up pass??? One way to settle it IMO.

No IA2??? seems totally irrelevant to the topic... IMO a well prepped stock block probably survives a few passes at that level... seein vin63's blown nitro 1800+ cast crank 400 stock block combo holds for quite awhile before cracking.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko

Where is the wall(limiting factor) in a pontiac engine?

From my perspective...money and political correctness seem the biggest obstacles... the physical dimensions are limiting factors if trying to go toe to toe at 500+ ci...

I commend Jack for steppin up to the billet heads... just wish he wasnt going the PA route.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Weight was 2350... I think that was the answer to someone sayin track results didnt match dyno power.

The real question then becomes... Did that car actually weigh 2350 or close at the starting line?
The real answer has been elusive... may indeed be honest, who am I to say? but... Maybe they should put it on the scales for all to see then run a back up pass??? One way to settle it IMO.

No IA2??? seems totally irrelevant to the topic... IMO a well prepped stock block probably survives a few passes at that level... seein vin63's blown nitro 1800+ cast crank 400 stock block combo holds for quite awhile before cracking.

NFW that car weighs 2250 let alone 2350. Marks not a big guy and those cars weigh 1800 wet with a big block without ballast. its probably 2000lbs.

[johnta1]

Lil Jack whined:

It's not making anywhere near 1200 HP.

Leech followed sobbing:

NFW that car weighs 2250 let alone 2350. Marks not a big guy and those cars weigh 1800 wet with a big block without ballast. its probably 2000lbs.

Just an FYI for those that don't understand, the weight of the vehicle used in these calculations are including the driver, fuel car, etc as it sits on the starting line.

As for it weighing 2000 lbs, if Leech thinks that is the weight on the line, he's drinking some of Lil Jack's stash.



Use Leech's 2000 lb for car with the driver weight (maybe 150 lbs minimum probably more) and then calculate the HP.

Still around 1200 HP using his MPH.
No happy dyno needed there.

[mike leech]

you're a whacko goof ball.


I was able to dry those awful tears after i went to your site to again find you were fos as usual. Your emotional attachment to what you "like" more than clouds your judgement and objectivity. You cannot reason or fairly evaluate data.....

posted right from your site.

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by mike leech

you're a whacko goof ball.

Hey now. Watch that spicy language Mister.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Lil Jack whined:



Leech followed sobbing:





Just an FYI for those that don't understand, the weight of the vehicle used in these calculations are including the driver, fuel car, etc as it sits on the starting line.



As for it weighing 2000 lbs, if Leech thinks that is the weight on the line, he's drinking some of Lil Jack's stash.



Use Leech's 2000 lb for car with the driver weight (maybe 150 lbs minimum probably more) and then calculate the HP.

Still around 1200 HP using his MPH.
No happy dyno needed there.

Read what I posted genius. 1800 wet with a bigblock. Add mark....he's huge right? like 150-65 lbs max. they won't say what it weighs for a reason.

Oh and i've dynoed there. good guys. I never came close in the car to their hp numbers tho. I'd say happy from my experience..
Have you?

[Stan Weiss]

Using 1128 Dynoed HP, 2000 lbs, 5 speed trans, and 2700 DA
60 Foot ET = 1.2078
330 Foot ET = 3.1286
1/8 Mile ET = 4.6850
1/8 Mile MPH = 158.9112
1000 Foot ET = 6.0299
1/4 Mile ET = 7.1660
1/4 Mile MPH = 199.0816

Using 1177 Dynoed HP, 2100 lbs, 5 speed trans, and 2700 DA
60 Foot ET = 1.2078
330 Foot ET = 3.1296
1/8 Mile ET = 4.6876
1/8 Mile MPH = 158.7797
1000 Foot ET = 6.0331
1/4 Mile ET = 7.1689
1/4 Mile MPH = 199.1982

Using 1226 Dynoed HP, 2200 lbs, 5 speed trans, and 2700 DA
60 Foot ET = 1.2078
330 Foot ET = 3.1299
1/8 Mile ET = 4.6891
1/8 Mile MPH = 158.7339
1000 Foot ET = 6.0344
1/4 Mile ET = 7.1694
1/4 Mile MPH = 199.4059

Stan

[johnta1]

After much more crying Leech said:

1800 wet with a bigblock

You are truly delusional.