[johnta1]

I don't think any Pontiac motor EVER has made 2000hp with nitrous

No doubt about that.

Maybe George has a blower that Jack can use and make some real power?

[GTO Dan]

I am going to guess that those heads flow around 500 cfm and since this engine is not optimized to run naturally aspirated I will use the old (and often wrong) cfm x 2 + 10% so I am guessing 1050 to 1100 hp.

Now....on the nazzzzzzz... I think it will make WGAF ... And will run 7.60s, maybe, 7.50s at his weight this year. Plug that into your calculators.

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by johnta1

No doubt about that.

Maybe George has a blower that Jack can use and make some real power?

No disrespect to George because I respect him and his car...but if you want to get 2,000 hp you need to call others...such as Billy (SikGoat), Rodney/Travis, etc.

[T Syron]

One million....HP

[GTOGEORGE]

With jacks PRO MOD Heads and PRO MOD sheet metal two four barrel intake w/nitrous I'm thinking he better make a SH_T load more then he made before because he will have one BAD A$$ engine! He is the NEW BEAST of the EAST (out with the old and in with the new)!!


GTO George

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Mike,
Let get something straight. Lil Jack did not build that engine without a lot of help. You did not build your engine without a lot of help. So, yes the people who ported your heads and manifold and picked your cam and all of those other thing can build more HP than me.

Stan

lets get something else strait. If i ported my own heads and intake along with the rest that i do myself and you did a whole combo ( a real one) i would bury you on the Dyno and the track.

FOR REAL!



Glad we cleared that up!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by mike leech

lets get something else strait. If i ported my own heads and intake along with the rest that i do myself and you did a whole combo ( a real one) i would bury you on the Dyno and the track.

FOR REAL!



Glad we cleared that up!

Stan

[goatman-68]

What ever it makes, I can't wait to see a vid going down the track. I really like that car and wouldn't mind having it in my garage.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Stan

I agree stan, it would go from so bad it wasn't even funny, pass that all the way back to where it was funny again, I'd beat you that bad.

[David Holmberg]

I suspect that Cowboy Mike is correct!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by GTO Dan

I am going to guess that those heads flow around 500 cfm and since this engine is not optimized to run naturally aspirated I will use the old (and often wrong) cfm x 2 + 10% so I am guessing 1050 to 1100 hp.

Now....on the nazzzzzzz... I think it will make WGAF ... And will run 7.60s, maybe, 7.50s at his weight this year. Plug that into your calculators.

CFM X 2 Plus 10% is the old "back of envelope" calculation that anyone can do and is considered by many to be as low ball as you can get and throw out an answer. Low ball makes everyone happy when they get the real number.

"They" Over-Achieved!

That being said, when you have a fantastic flowing head like the Warp 6 head installed on an engine of some displacement, if you get the right tuner, (like the 63 Tempest boys) and run 10,000 rpm then the formula is a bit off (;>), agree.

Course you take the same head and put it on a PA combination, with a skate board weight, and run the numbers that are out there, you need to hire someone to help you get some durability going down the track. Super heads, if you can't get down the track impresses few. So jack has to make some good numbers, get down the track well for his weight, and not hurt anything. Should be a piece of cake for Jack.

Tom V.

[goatracer]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Bryan,
Please explain to me, what the relationship is between how N/A HP Lil Jack's engine will make and how much N/A HP I can make.

Stan

It has about the same relationship as Jacks motor does to a pro stock motor, nothing. There is no reasonable expectation that it should be close to 1300 na, thats just silly.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

With jacks PRO MOD Heads and PRO MOD sheet metal two four barrel intake w/nitrous I'm thinking he better make a SH_T load more then he made before because he will have one BAD A$$ engine! He is the NEW BEAST of the EAST (out with the old and in with the new)!!


GTO George

This car has "PRO MOD Heads and PRO MOD sheet metal two four barrel intake w/nitrous" (it runs 4s on a bad day.)

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-...title-for-keen

Don't think there is any comparison to Jack's stuff, except for maybe jealousy by some. It will be the "BEAST of the EAST", Agree George.

“Resentment/jealousy is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.”

Tom V.

[john marcella]

The only thing that matters is how it stacks up in the class that it is raced in. While it may be a killer motor for the Pont group, it ,at the same time may be sub par junk compared to the stuff that it is in the class he races in. For his sake I hope it does well in the class, cuz it sucks when you have a good motor that you have a lot of $/ time in and you feel that no matter what you do you will always be behind.
Good luck Jack.

[Mikes455Wagon]

Lil Jack hasn't even been down the track or on the dyno yet and has already got the world talking. It must be tuff being Lil Jack "The Big Balla!" Thanks for pushing the Pontiac envelope a little further! Run or not, this is definately a game changer.


Good luck to you Jack, can't wait to see the results!

[Aaron Quinton]

Stan,

You can't let data get in the way of board politics can you?

A full blown canted valve billet head modeled after a DRCE head is a no compromise solution. The bore centers driving the intake valve size are the limiting factors and the ability to rev the engine for an NA configuration. An engine this size in an optimized NA configuration should be capable of hitting 1300 hp with this type of head. That's 2.4 hp per CID. A friends small block bracket engine is pulling 2.55 hp / CID running used canted valve parts from the last decade. It's all about intake valve size and the reciprocating mass that limits RPM along with controlling valvetrain dynamics. We need to look outside of the Pontiac world to look at current capabilities, engines are just air pumps.

Inline Pontiac heads right now have hit 2.2 hp / CID with castings NA with a single 4. A no compromise billet should be capable of more with evenly spaced intake and exhaust ports. The ability to jump the header starting pipe 20% in area without paired exh ports is worth a ton and a second carb at least 50 hp.

This is a nitrous engine I hear. So it has the chambers softened to reduce hot spots to control detonation. That's a slight drop in compression. It will also have a cam optimized for N2O due to a 50% increase in mass flow over NA even though "nitrous cams" don't exist. So in nitrous trim it's going to be down 10-15% hp as compared to an optimized NA engine.

So back to politics, look at how the expectations are set. If it's someone else's engine you set the expectations through the moon and when they don't achieve they are idiots. If it's your engine set the expectations so low you trip over it, over achieve and you're the genious hero.

Back to task, Kinsler's right, 1120-1150 hp should be reasonable for a N20 engine configuration. But this in the internet so I'm still an idiot.

The bottom line is the car will be a rocket and well done to Jack for pulling it together. Good luck running it. I'm out.

Aaron

[Tom Vaught]

1150 HP will be a nice ride for that old GTO at the cars weight.

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Jacks BILLET heads are the closest thing US Pontiac Racers have to a PRO MOD Heads except for KRE's Warp 6 head! What head will touch the flow Numbers from those two heads........maybe DCI's Race RA5 heads? Now if Jack had that head I'd be jealous FOR SURE!! gotta love a RA5 head!! So jacks basically got a PRO MOD Engine, if Cooper can run 6.80's Jack with his added weight better run 7.30's with his tinker toy tire PRO MOD high dollar MONSTER. "The NEW BEAST of the EAST "!


GTO George

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by goatracer

It has about the same relationship as Jacks motor does to a pro stock motor, nothing. There is no reasonable expectation that it should be close to 1300 na, thats just silly.

NHRA Pro Stock 500 ci - 1480 HP - 2.96 HP per ci

Australian Pro Stock 400 ci - 1180 HP - 2.95 HP per ci

Lil Jack 541 ci - 1300 HP - 2.403 HP per ci
- - - - 541 ci - 1100 HP - 2.033 HP per ci

Stan

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by mike leech

I agree stan, it would go from so bad it wasn't even funny, pass that all the way back to where it was funny again, I'd beat you that bad.

Stan